Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[DE.]

2 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Absolutely! They have got it so wrong in WWE. Every feud is dull as dishwater. They are introduced in a rushed fashion, become massively repetitive, and never have a blowoff at the end.

Back in the territory days they would use TV to build the feuds and let them play out on live shows, meaning they weren’t overexposed. In the early days of PPV they would have one show every three months or so, and they built genuine anticipation.

They really need a rethink. There are definitely too many shows (TV and PPV) but their roster is more than big enough to cope with it. No appetite to change from the current formula though, which is why I’ve all but given up.

Also factor in that they don't even make any money off PPV anymore. Now that the Pay Per Views are all on the Network they aren't the money-spinners they once were, making it even less important to put any real effort into anything other than the Rumble and Wrestlemania. You do get the odd excellent PPV event, but most of them are fucking boring nowadays. They don't even make an effort changing up the sets anymore, whereas you know you'll get something different every time with AEW - who sometimes even change up the Dynamite set depending on the venue.

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I haven't watched WWE SD or Raw in years,but I think the problem this time for me isn't even Goldberg beating the fiend, it's the fact it's Goldberg and Reigns at mania. Why? They say dream match,I say it's a match no one even thought about wanting when it comes to "dream matches". Not a hope Goldberg will be giving Reigns a jackhammer. 

Yeah I don't think I've ever heard anybody say "I wish I could see Goldberg Vs Reigns". Or, for that matter, "I wish Goldberg was champion". They could have done Goldberg Vs Reigns without the title - in fact it probably would have been better without. 

If WWE were smart they would have been building someone up to finally take down the Fiend at WM for the title. Instead they seemed to have no real idea where they were going with the storyline and so had Rollins, Balor, Miz and Bryan lose to the Fiend pretty decisively before feeding the Fiend to Goldberg to build up a WM match nobody cares about. LOLWWE logic which just makes me appreciate having AEW as an alternative even more. God bless the Khans and good luck to Fulham, I say.

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, DE. said:

Also factor in that they don't even make any money off PPV anymore. Now that the Pay Per Views are all on the Network they aren't the money-spinners they once were, making it even less important to put any real effort into anything other than the Rumble and Wrestlemania. You do get the odd excellent PPV event, but most of them are fucking boring nowadays. They don't even make an effort changing up the sets anymore, whereas you know you'll get something different every time with AEW - who sometimes even change up the Dynamite set depending on the venue.

Yeah I don't think I've ever heard anybody say "I wish I could see Goldberg Vs Reigns". Or, for that matter, "I wish Goldberg was champion". They could have done Goldberg Vs Reigns without the title - in fact it probably would have been better without. 

If WWE were smart they would have been building someone up to finally take down the Fiend at WM for the title. Instead they seemed to have no real idea where they were going with the storyline and so had Rollins, Balor, Miz and Bryan lose to the Fiend pretty decisively before feeding the Fiend to Goldberg to build up a WM match nobody cares about. LOLWWE logic which just makes me appreciate having AEW as an alternative even more. God bless the Khans and good luck to Fulham, I say.

I wonder will Goldberg actually wrestle on Smackdown before WM? The whole thing is so stupid. They basically had Seth try and murder the fiend in a cage before he kicked out. Yet Grandpa Goldberg hits the spear and a whackhammer and that's it. Like if it was the Rock, I would be like "ya , ok fair enough, he's box office". As I said though, it isn't even Goldberg winning that I find most stupid, it's putting him in a feud with Reigns. I didn't watch it last week, who is the heel? 

I watched some of SS. The Undertaker and AJ styles stuff was worse than I dared imagine. He wasn't even in the bloody match and 1 shitty chokeslam? Are they on drugs? 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I wonder will Goldberg actually wrestle on Smackdown before WM? The whole thing is so stupid. They basically had Seth try and murder the fiend in a cage before he kicked out. Yet Grandpa Goldberg hits the spear and a whackhammer and that's it. Like if it was the Rock, I would be like "ya , ok fair enough, he's box office". As I said though, it isn't evenm Goldberg winning that I find most stupid, it's putting him in a feud with Reigns. I didn't watch it last week, who is the heel? 

I watched some of SS. The Undertaker and AJ styles stuff was worse than I dared imagine. He wasn't even in the bloody match and 1 shitty chokeslam? Are they on drugs? 

That's the thing, if they hadn't built up the Fiend as this unstoppable force then fine... but they made him horror-movie-villain style indestructible. Unless you hit a few spears and a suplex/"jackhammer", apparently. I think Seth actually tweeted something like "should have pulled out a jackhammer" afterwards - the people who got beat by the Fiend can't be thrilled, as it makes them all look weak as fuck by proxy. Although I guess Balor won't care much as he's far away from that nonsense in NXT.

As for who is the heel in Goldberg/Reigns... neither technically, but as per the crowd it's Goldberg as he was getting more boos than Reigns. WWE thinks they've played a masterstroke there but it wouldn't surprise me if the reverse happens at WM with a super smarky crowd.  

The Undertaker thing would have been fine if it was a SA house show - nobody would have cared. The problem is that it was televised as part of a much hyped event, which comes off really badly. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, DE. said:

That's the thing, if they hadn't built up the Fiend as this unstoppable force then fine... but they made him horror-movie-villain style indestructible. Unless you hit a few spears and a suplex/"jackhammer", apparently. I think Seth actually tweeted something like "should have pulled out a jackhammer" afterwards - the people who got beat by the Fiend can't be thrilled, as it makes them all look weak as fuck by proxy. Although I guess Balor won't care much as he's far away from that nonsense in NXT.

As for who is the heel in Goldberg/Reigns... neither technically, but as per the crowd it's Goldberg as he was getting more boos than Reigns. WWE thinks they've played a masterstroke there but it wouldn't surprise me if the reverse happens at WM with a super smarky crowd.  

The Undertaker thing would have been fine if it was a SA house show - nobody would have cared. The problem is that it was televised as part of a much hyped event, which comes off really badly. 

Especially when it was on Styles, someone who I would imagine will be back in the main event scene at some point, along with being arguably the best wrestler of the last decade. Could they not have had a relatively competitive match between Lesner and say Bobby Lashley, then stick Richoet in that piss trophy(Sorry, but that's what it looked like) spectacular and have him buried by the Undertaker?

There is no saving it, but I would imagine they might turn Goldberg heel. Although, not sure how that will work. I just find Reigns SO BORING 

To me a Randy Orton, Broken Matt Hardy and Edge storyline, with a blow off for a world title at WM would be box office. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

23 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Especially when it was on Styles, someone who I would imagine will be back in the main event scene at some point, along with being arguably the best wrestler of the last decade. Could they not have had a relatively competitive match between Lesner and say Bobby Lashley, then stick Richoet in that piss trophy(Sorry, but that's what it looked like) spectacular and have him buried by the Undertaker?

There is no saving it, but I would imagine they might turn Goldberg heel. Although, not sure how that will work. I just find Reigns SO BORING 

To me a Randy Orton, Broken Matt Hardy and Edge storyline, with a blow off for a world title at WM would be box office. 

Reigns can be very good but he's booked in an extremely boring way and has been for 95% of his WWE career. I reckon he'd shine in NJPW or AEW.

Matt Hardy has left WWE now I believe - there are rumours he is going to be revealed as the leader of the Dark Order in AEW. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, DE. said:

Reigns can be very good but he's booked in an extremely boring way and has been for 95% of his WWE career. I reckon he'd shine in NJPW or AEW.

Matt Hardy has left WWE now I believe - there are rumours he is going to be revealed as the leader of the Dark Order in AEW. 

Ya,he's a good wrestler for sure. 

Really,I was saying that should happen! Although I have read that he has resigned with WWE......

[DE.]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya,he's a good wrestler for sure. 

Really,I was saying that should happen! Although I have read that he has resigned with WWE......

He released a video saying he's a free agent: https://www.sescoops.com/matt-hardy-officially-announces-hes-a-free-agent/

But it's wrestling so he might well be on Raw monday.

[Dreyski]

2004 - Lesnar and Goldberg booed out of the building at Wrestlemania XX

2020 - Lesnar and Goldberg universal and world champions heading into Wrestlemania 36 

☹️

[DE.]

Lesnar will still be champion going into Wrestlemania 50 at this rate.

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 hours ago, DE. said:

Lesnar will still be champion going into Wrestlemania 50 at this rate.

Difficult seeing a time he isn't the champion, unless he decides to step away. 

[Mike E]

I can see them doing Reigns vs Fiend at Summerslam (instead of WM) which is probably a better card for it to Main Event.

Also noticed that Survivor Series is in Dallas... exactly 30 years since Taker debuted... at Survivor Series in Dallas. I reckon the Fiend or Aleister Black retire him there.

[DE.]

As long as the Saudi shows are paying mega bucks Taker ain't going anywhere!

[DE.]

So Ricochet gets squashed by Lesnar at Super Showdown and then gets beaten clean by Riddick Moss (who?) on Raw. What in the world has he done to deserve this treatment? 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, DE. said:

So Ricochet gets squashed by Lesnar at Super Showdown and then gets beaten clean by Riddick Moss (who?) on Raw. What in the world has he done to deserve this treatment? 

Strong feeling they're aiming for a Daniel Bryan style scenario, where the marks decide WWE have 'squashed' him and get all behind him and it makes him even bigger. Just a hunch though. Plus I quite like Moss winning that match, pretty much everything they've done with the 24/7 championship has ended up being one of the better things about each show every week.

[Bigdoggsteel]

I think the 24/7 title is a good in idea in theory, but not so much in practice. Clearly it gives lower mid card guys something to do and has led to more airtime for some guys who deserve it, but would have gotten it otherwise. The problem I have with it is along the lines that it's clearly a lower midcard belt. Firstly, whenever the 24/7 champ has a match with someone who is higher up the food chain, it's a non-title match(??), happened a few times, but most recently Mojo Rawley v Drew Mcintyre. Similarly Lesner bet the champion up on one episode, I think it was Truth, but I could be wrong and he didn't pin him. He just laughed and walked off. Now clearly putting the 24/7 title on either of those guys would make no sense, but it's just something I have noticed. I think there are ways they could have protected the belt in those situations. In the Lesner scenario they could have simply had someone like Drake Maverick pop out from somewhere, make a quick pin and then run off whilst Lesner stands looking confused. For the Mcintyre one, just don't have him fight the 24/7 champ...non-title match...jeez 

[DE.]

I find the 24/7 stuff pretty boring to be honest. It was good at the start when they were being creative with it, but now it's just dull. At least we don't have the crowd of jobbers chasing the jobber with the prop every week at the moment though.

Honestly I don't think Ricochet has the kind of support behind him to rally a crowd DB style. This week he came out to crickets. People will just stop caring about him, if they haven't already.

[Bigdoggsteel]

20 minutes ago, DE. said:

I find the 24/7 stuff pretty boring to be honest. It was good at the start when they were being creative with it, but now it's just dull. At least we don't have the crowd of jobbers chasing the jobber with the prop every week at the moment though.

Honestly I don't think Ricochet has the kind of support behind him to rally a crowd DB style. This week he came out to crickets. People will just stop caring about him, if they haven't already.

He's a very flippy man, exciting in the ring,but he is no Daniel Bryan 

[DE.]

28 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He's a very flippy man, exciting in the ring,but he is no Daniel Bryan 

Yeah for sure. Impressive athleticism but zero promo skills which is a problem. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Not sure if any of you follow Impact? I used to watch when on Challenge TV during the golden era of Styles, Cage etc. I always throw an eye on social media, but I haven't watched a full impact in a long , long time. I think they have made a right mess there, they have some good talent like Edwards, Cage, The North and especially with the women like Tessa Blanchard and John Morrisons missus. They put the mens world title on Blanchard, which I think is stupid enough, but her second defence was against Valkyrie (aforementioned Morrisons missus). Joke shop. 

[DE.]

I don't think I've watched Impact since 2013 or 2014. I pretty much totally checked out when AJ left. I've heard they have done some good stuff since then but I have to say their current product doesn't interest me in the slightest. I've got so much I already struggle to watch during a week (WWE, AEW & NWA mainly) that adding Impact to the list is just not feasible unless they were putting on an incredible show.  

[Bigdoggsteel]

I just don't see why they have a dominant woman holding the men's title. It makes all the men look like absolute chumps. I could buy it if she got a flukey win,but they are booking her strongly and having her beat guys. Stupid. If the title wasn't involved I wouldn't care, but this is just silly stuff. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

I guess they want to be seen as 'woke' or whatever. Personally I agree that it's stupid. Same as NXT renaming the women's title as the NXT title. Just confusing and unnecessary. 

To be fair I have no issue with women who look like they could compete in the men's division doing some stuff there (Chyna back in the day, and in modern times the likes of Awesome Kong, Nyla Rose or Kamille) but if there's too much of a size/weight difference then it totally ruins the immersion for me.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, DE. said:

I guess they want to be seen as 'woke' or whatever. Personally I agree that it's stupid. Same as NXT renaming the women's title as the NXT title. Just confusing and unnecessary. 

To be fair I have no issue with women who look like they could compete in the men's division doing some stuff there (Chyna back in the day, and in modern times the likes of Awesome Kong, Nyla Rose or Kamille) but if there's too much of a size/weight difference then it totally ruins the immersion for me.

Ya, but I don't even think any of those you mention could or should be the mens word title holder. 

I think you are right, it's pure "wokeness" alright. Gail kim is very involved there too and I'd say she is a bit of a pain in the backside and bossy/domineering. I have seen some interviews with her and some of the stuff she says on social media. 

This wokeness always seems to be 1 way too(unless a man dresses as a woman for comedic value), if the NXT title is gender neutral can't wait for a man to win it so

[DE.]

Personally as far as wrestling is concerned I prefer the genders separated. Nothing against either gender but it just doesn't look or feel right to me when a man and a woman are matched against each other, save for a very few occasions when it's believable. I don't mind women main eventing - in fact some of the best matches of recent times in WWE, particularly NXT, have been female matches, but my preference is for each gender to be kept separate. 

Fortunately there's no sign of WWE or AEW following Impact's lead, anyway. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Indeed. I have seen some great women's matches. One of Charlotte's and Becky Lynches was ,frankly, insane. 

As for with men, Vega sniping and doing moves whilst managing someone is fine, Sami Callihan beating Brian Cage and then losing to Blanchard clean is silly. I know the argument some make is "but the undertaker" when it comes to suspending disbelief, but I say to that ya fair enough the supernatural stuff but a woman winning a world title by beating a man with no supernatural gimmicks in sight is actually more illogical to me. It's purely woke culture. I don't think anyone wants a woman winning the world title from a man clean. It would be like Becky Lynch beating Brock Lesnar. Imagine ? 'SUCH GOOD SHIT"