Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[DE.]

Quite a big story developing regarding Velveteen Dream allegedly sending naked pictures to underage boys. I caught the initial post on Reddit this morning before the mods locked and deleted it, when the accuser first posted some pictures from Instagram. Since then some audio which is supposed to be Dream has leaked as well, and the number he was supposed to have called some of the boys on has been confirmed as his legitimate mobile number (in the recent past at least). Dream has tweeted a denial but it's looking bad for him at the moment. 

Don't think he'll be around for a while, at least whilst the police investigation which is inevitably due to follow concludes. He was a future main eventer with his current gimmick and talent for sure, so this will be a massive shame to say the least if it does turn out to be true as his career will be over - and that may be the least of his worries.

Edited April 24, 2020 by DE.

[Blue blood]

4 minutes ago, DE. said:

Quite a big story developing regarding Velveteen Dream allegedly sending naked pictures to underage boys. I caught the initial post on Reddit this morning before the mods locked and deleted it, when the accuser first posted some pictures from Instagram. Since then some audio which is supposed to be Dream has leaked as well, and the number he was supposed to have called some of the boys on has been confirmed as his legitimate mobile number (in the recent past at least). Dream has tweeted a denial but it's looking bad for him at the moment. 

Don't think he'll be around for a while, at least whilst the police investigation which is inevitably due to follow concludes. He was a future main eventer with his current gimmick and talent for sure, so this will be a massive shame to say the least if it does turn out to be true as his career will be over - and that may be the least of his worries.

Goodness. And seemed to be getting towards an NXT main event or championship push. 

However if it is true then as you say the least of his worries. It's sad to see such amazing talent go to waste but then a lot of wrestlers aren't angels. From the Benoit atrocity through to the self destruction of Pillman, wrestling has a heck of a darker side. 

[DE.]

12 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Goodness. And seemed to be getting towards an NXT main event or championship push. 

However if it is true then as you say the least of his worries. It's sad to see such amazing talent go to waste but then a lot of wrestlers aren't angels. From the Benoit atrocity through to the self destruction of Pillman, wrestling has a heck of a darker side. 

Dark Side of the Ring certainly isn't running out of stories any time soon. I really hope Dream has legitimately been hacked, but if it is a hack then it must be somebody with one hell of a grudge against him to go to these lengths.

[Blue blood]

9 minutes ago, DE. said:

Dark Side of the Ring certainly isn't running out of stories any time soon. I really hope Dream has legitimately been hacked, but if it is a hack then it must be somebody with one hell of a grudge against him to go to these lengths.

I've never listened to this. Perhaps I should? I guess a bit like football I gripe about it and hate it but it doesn't stop me watching it/going. Only when it directly affected Rovers under Venkys did it really impact my actions. 

[DE.]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

 I've never listened to this. Perhaps I should? I guess a bit like football I gripe about it and hate it but it doesn't stop me watching it/going. Only when it directly affected Rovers under Venkys did it really impact my actions. 

Dark Side of the Ring is a TV series produced by Vice. It's really good. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Side_of_the_Ring

You can find most of the episodes on DailyMotion uploaded by Vice themselves, and I think there's a bunch of reuploads on YouTube as well. 

[Darrenbot]

48 minutes ago, DE. said:

Dark Side of the Ring is a TV series produced by Vice. It's really good. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Side_of_the_Ring

You can find most of the episodes on DailyMotion uploaded by Vice themselves, and I think there's a bunch of reuploads on YouTube as well. 

Season 1 is on Channel 4's on demand service All4 i watched them last week,theres plenty of seedy stuff going on in the background of wrestling companies.

[DE.]

37 minutes ago, Darrenbot said:

Season 1 is on Channel 4's on demand service All4 i watched them last week,theres plenty of seedy stuff going on in the background of wrestling companies.

Oh yeah, Vince alone could have three seasons dedicated to himself I imagine. This is just the stuff we know about. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 24/04/2020 at 22:15, DE. said:

Quite a big story developing regarding Velveteen Dream allegedly sending naked pictures to underage boys. I caught the initial post on Reddit this morning before the mods locked and deleted it, when the accuser first posted some pictures from Instagram. Since then some audio which is supposed to be Dream has leaked as well, and the number he was supposed to have called some of the boys on has been confirmed as his legitimate mobile number (in the recent past at least). Dream has tweeted a denial but it's looking bad for him at the moment. 

Don't think he'll be around for a while, at least whilst the police investigation which is inevitably due to follow concludes. He was a future main eventer with his current gimmick and talent for sure, so this will be a massive shame to say the least if it does turn out to be true as his career will be over - and that may be the least of his worries.

He's screwed you would imagine. Vince has fired guys for less and under the current climate, I don't think he will need much encouragement. 

What in gods name was he thinking 

[DE.]

13 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He's screwed you would imagine. Vince has fired guys for less and under the current climate, I don't think he will need much encouragement. 

What in gods name was he thinking 

I really hope he turns out to be innocent in all of this and it is just a very sophisticated hack by somebody with a grudge. It's beyond stupid otherwise if he genuinely did do this. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

55 minutes ago, DE. said:

I really hope he turns out to be innocent in all of this and it is just a very sophisticated hack by somebody with a grudge. It's beyond stupid otherwise if he genuinely did do this. 

Ya, I liked his character , from what I had seen

[DE.]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, I liked his character , from what I had seen

To be honest Vince would probably have ruined him if he had gotten called up anyway, but he certainly has all the tools to be a huge success. Considering the charges against him his ring name is slightly unfortunate now though ?

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

To be honest Vince would probably have ruined him if he had gotten called up anyway, but he certainly has all the tools to be a huge success. Considering the charges against him his ring name is slightly unfortunate now though ?

Indeed

I remember the guy ,whats his name, used to tag team with Big Cass? A little kind of guido, a character though and good on the mike. He had a rape accusation, which proved false and he was fired out the door, although apparently he was a pain backstage, but hard to know if that is true.

On Velveteen, I mean to look at it as Devils advocate, if he didn't know what age the person was,it gets tricky. I mean he is only 24, a minor there, what are we talking-17? I was getting into over 23 bars at 17. You could very easily get caught there. It's all the one anyway now really, cos this stuff sticks and unless you are megastar, you ain't getting a by from Vinny Mc. 

[DE.]

6 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Indeed

I remember the guy ,whats his name, used to tag team with Big Cass? A little kind of guido, a character though and good on the mike. He had a rape accusation, which proved false and he was fired out the door, although apparently he was a pain backstage, but hard to know if that is true.

On Velveteen, I mean to look at it as Devils advocate, if he didn't know what age the person was,it gets tricky. I mean he is only 24, a minor there, what are we talking-17? I was getting into over 23 bars at 17. You could very easily get caught there. It's all the one anyway now really, cos this stuff sticks and unless you are megastar, you ain't getting a by from Vinny Mc. 

You're thinking of Enzo, and yeah he was great on the mic but a total bellend backstage. Neville/PAC was so incensed at being asked to drop the cruiserweight title to him that he walked out. I imagine when the rape accusation was announced they were more than happy to get rid. The fact they never brought him back once he was cleared kind of says it all.

Yeah in the States there are a lot of areas where you're a minor if you're under the age of 18. It's obviously a bit weird for us to see a 17 year old described as a minor due to the age of consent being 16 in the UK. I did read that one of the boys Dream was allegedly in contact with was 15 though which is obviously bad times in most countries. Again though there's no specific proof so until he's charged by the police I don't think anyone should assume his guilt. As for how Vince will react, who knows at this point, the guy is completely unpredictable. 

[Blue blood]

On the Enzo story there were a lot of rumours that a lot of the locker room didn't like his antics. Part of the issues WWE reportedly had with the rape allegation was that he didn't make it known to the company and they only found out through the media. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Speaking of potential. Just looked up a bit about that Austin Theory. Firstly, handsome dude and I'm not into dudes. Secondly he was won some amount of championships so far at 22. 22...my god imagine being that young and getting that push in WWE. Vinny MC must like what he sees. 

[Mike E]

WWE/Drew McIntyre have arranged for Captain Moore to be given his own championship belt for his 100th birthday.

[DE.]

It looks like Shad Gaspard (formerly of Cryme Tyme) has sadly drowned after being caught in a riptide whilst swimming. He asked the lifeguards to save his ten year old son before himself, which they did, but he was pulled under a wave before they could get back to him. Really tragic situation, by all accounts he was one of the nicest guys in the business. 

[Vinjay]

Mike Tyson will appear live on Dynamite this upcoming week. Rather underwhelming appearance at the PPV but at least it looks like something bigger is planned. 

[Norbert Rassragr]

He was always one of my favouites when I watched in the early 90's. The sheer theater of his entrance with Paul Bearer was great.

 https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-52633509

[Guest]

Have to say I have been a little underwhelmed with AEW's recent output. When AEW was first announced I think my expectations for what they were going to try and achieve were completely different to what they've actually gone for. I think there's a huge issue online within the Pro Wrestling community at the minute where anybody who criticises AEW and their content is castrated and shut down. I just feel a little underwhelmed by it, like I said. I still find their audio set up to be massively off putting and I don't think they've ever truly addressed that. 

That being said, the WWE's content right now is abysmal too, for me anyway. I mean, people said this new "rivalry" would help spark a bit of a renaissance within the Wrestling bubble but I really don't see that happening. Yes, COVID-19 has gotten in the way, but I don't think things were moving in the right direction before this whole debacle began any way.

As per, I think of course for the WWE, NXT is still the bright spark, and once fans can return I think they'll pick up where they left off, but the "main" brands are slowly dying. More people are at home now than ever in the history of television, and viewing figures for RAW have plummeted to consistent all time lows. Wrestlers are unhappy with working conditions, fans aren't even watching anymore - it truly is in a poor position right now.

We're crying out for a new period in wrestling to begin, we haven't really had one since the Ruthless Aggression period. Whilst I've never been a huge advocate to returning to TV-14, I think if there was ever a time to get drastic, it's approaching. I can imagine a huge buzz if either AEW or WWE went down the route of having characters swearing, being much more violent and having a bit more realistic drama/dialogue between talent (on the mic and back stage). I think whoever jumps that gun first could blow the other out of the water outright. If neither try something new soon, I think we could be headed down a dark path. 

Vinny Mac isn't thick, he's bloody clever, and I think when he see's the writing is truly on the wall for RAW, things will change. If the last 40 years has shown anything, it's shown that he is a man who can adapt, and has adapted. Hopefully he will again. But this "era", with no characteristics and real defining features, is coming to an end.

[DE.]

Honestly I've just stopped watching modern wrestling entirely. I still watch the odd Nitro or Raw from the 90s if I want something playing in the background that I don't have to pay much attention to, but wrestling without crowd reactions is just boring to me. I'm not sure I'll watch again until crowds are allowed back into the arenas. 

[Blue blood]

On 26/05/2020 at 09:31, JoeH said:

Have to say I have been a little underwhelmed with AEW's recent output. When AEW was first announced I think my expectations for what they were going to try and achieve were completely different to what they've actually gone for. I think there's a huge issue online within the Pro Wrestling community at the minute where anybody who criticises AEW and their content is castrated and shut down. I just feel a little underwhelmed by it, like I said. I still find their audio set up to be massively off putting and I don't think they've ever truly addressed that. 

That being said, the WWE's content right now is abysmal too, for me anyway. I mean, people said this new "rivalry" would help spark a bit of a renaissance within the Wrestling bubble but I really don't see that happening. Yes, COVID-19 has gotten in the way, but I don't think things were moving in the right direction before this whole debacle began any way.

As per, I think of course for the WWE, NXT is still the bright spark, and once fans can return I think they'll pick up where they left off, but the "main" brands are slowly dying. More people are at home now than ever in the history of television, and viewing figures for RAW have plummeted to consistent all time lows. Wrestlers are unhappy with working conditions, fans aren't even watching anymore - it truly is in a poor position right now.

We're crying out for a new period in wrestling to begin, we haven't really had one since the Ruthless Aggression period. Whilst I've never been a huge advocate to returning to TV-14, I think if there was ever a time to get drastic, it's approaching. I can imagine a huge buzz if either AEW or WWE went down the route of having characters swearing, being much more violent and having a bit more realistic drama/dialogue between talent (on the mic and back stage). I think whoever jumps that gun first could blow the other out of the water outright. If neither try something new soon, I think we could be headed down a dark path. 

Vinny Mac isn't thick, he's bloody clever, and I think when he see's the writing is truly on the wall for RAW, things will change. If the last 40 years has shown anything, it's shown that he is a man who can adapt, and has adapted. Hopefully he will again. But this "era", with no characteristics and real defining features, is coming to an end.

Good posr. I think there are a number of factors in this. 

Firstly no fans and non-reaction makes everything less good. I'm a week or so behind with NXT due to the delayed reruns on the network but what has been obvious is that it has badly missed fan reactions when those wow moments have happened. From Thatcher turning on Riddle through to the women's ladder match, fan reactions would have hugely added to these moments and matches. It's turning great into good, good into ok and so on. 

Secondly this becomes even more pertinent on the other brands because a lot of it isn't great slipping to good but ok to meh. I do think Raw and Smackdown struggle for a whole host of reasons on quality but the lack of fans really hurts it and exposes the lack of quality. 

I do wonder if the main brands suffer from a few key issues. storylines are changed, not concluded, swapped meaning the narrative arc is poor and fans are less invested. Characters seem to be going one way, then they go another so the build is often weak. 

Match quality is hugely variable which given the standards that they can have makes the variability all the more frustrating and noticeable to fans. I much prefer the format to just the weekly squash shows of the 80s and 90s, but when you can have good quality and it is mixed it is all too noticeable. So there is an extent to which match quality can be sacrificed for storyline (although not too much and this has been a problem in the past imo) but if the storylines aren't there as cover as well then it's going to hurt. 

Mixed quality PPVs are another huge issue. What makes NXT great is you can guarentee a Takeover will be at least an 8 out of 10. Contrast that with the main PPVs and you see a marked difference. For example Hell in a Cell this year had an exceptional women's cell match but the men's was dire. It makes a huge difference if the quality of the PPV is mixed. If there were bankers then people would be more invested in the weekly shows to see the build up to these. 

Finally I think there are just way too many talented wrestlers who don't get time to shine. Whilst far from perfect on this NXT does give the athletes more time to shine and put on their best, and it shows in the quality of their shows. The main rosters have far too many people so they don't get enough time. Fans are therefore less invested in them and the whole product suffers. Ricochet is a huge example of this for me - he can do it all and then some but he is totally lost in the midcard shuffle. Fewer wrestlers each with more time to shine would also make a huge difference. 

Those are a few thoughts for me on why it doesn't work as well and why NXT does. Hopefully things will improve post lockdown. But I agree there are real issues. 

 

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Good posr. I think there are a number of factors in this. 

Firstly no fans and non-reaction makes everything less good. I'm a week or so behind with NXT due to the delayed reruns on the network but what has been obvious is that it has badly missed fan reactions when those wow moments have happened. From Thatcher turning on Riddle through to the women's ladder match, fan reactions would have hugely added to these moments and matches. It's turning great into good, good into ok and so on. 

Secondly this becomes even more pertinent on the other brands because a lot of it isn't great slipping to good but ok to meh. I do think Raw and Smackdown struggle for a whole host of reasons on quality but the lack of fans really hurts it and exposes the lack of quality. 

I do wonder if the main brands suffer from a few key issues. storylines are changed, not concluded, swapped meaning the narrative arc is poor and fans are less invested. Characters seem to be going one way, then they go another so the build is often weak. 

Match quality is hugely variable which given the standards that they can have makes the variability all the more frustrating and noticeable to fans. I much prefer the format to just the weekly squash shows of the 80s and 90s, but when you can have good quality and it is mixed it is all too noticeable. So there is an extent to which match quality can be sacrificed for storyline (although not too much and this has been a problem in the past imo) but if the storylines aren't there as cover as well then it's going to hurt. 

Mixed quality PPVs are another huge issue. What makes NXT great is you can guarentee a Takeover will be at least an 8 out of 10. Contrast that with the main PPVs and you see a marked difference. For example Hell in a Cell this year had an exceptional women's cell match but the men's was dire. It makes a huge difference if the quality of the PPV is mixed. If there were bankers then people would be more invested in the weekly shows to see the build up to these. 

Finally I think there are just way too many talented wrestlers who don't get time to shine. Whilst far from perfect on this NXT does give the athletes more time to shine and put on their best, and it shows in the quality of their shows. The main rosters have far too many people so they don't get enough time. Fans are therefore less invested in them and the whole product suffers. Ricochet is a huge example of this for me - he can do it all and then some but he is totally lost in the midcard shuffle. Fewer wrestlers each with more time to shine would also make a huge difference. 

Those are a few thoughts for me on why it doesn't work as well and why NXT does. Hopefully things will improve post lockdown. But I agree there are real issues. 

The main issue that Raw and Smackdown face is a lack of true storytelling. I couldn't actually name the last "rivalry" I was truly invested in. The Edge vs Orton stuff was half arsed, I didn't find any enjoyment in the Otis and Mandy thing (although others did). I mean there's no real story. Some of my favourite wrestling moments are when there's this great overarching story that interacts with all the others.

Take the Nexus, their storylines interacted with everything else on the show. Interrupting other matches, influencing other storylines. Same with The Shield's introduction, the reign of the "Authority". Right now it feels like every storyline within the WWE is totally separate to the other. I mean they're desperate to tell us that Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch are this amazing power couple, but we'll just gloss over the fact that the latter ignores the fact that the former is the leader of a bloody Cult. It's so dumb.

It's all about continuity for me. Wrestlers who've faced each other recently should be seen to be wary around each other, there should be "repercussions" and there just aren't. 

People reach the main event just for the sake of it now when there's nobody to fill a gap, and Creative don't even hide it. I mean Bobby Lashley is getting a title shot for staring at Drew McIntyre the wrong way... like what a pathetic story to tell. Effectively they've given up trying to convince us that these guys genuinely hate each other and instead we're booking matches like its the UFC and everything's just so we can put on a decent match.

The Chris Jericho, Kevin Owens, festival of friendship. THAT was a storyline, it had a great pay-off and there was genuine acting, drama and tension there. But it's really difficult to find other angles since then which have actually managed to achieve that. They should be writing RAW like an episode of Eastenders, where every characters actions has a huge effect on the other characters. Braun Strowman spears someone through the LED set? Well that set should stay broken for a good few weeks, ruining some other guy entrance. Seth Rollins starts a cult, well Becky Lynch should be questioning him backstage. Bobby Lashley gets a stupid and random title match that seems totally undeserved, well Ricochet should be backstage complaining to an interviewer about how dumb that is. 

Wrestling needs to feel as real as possible because everybody goes into it with suspended disbelief. If matches are made and rivalries are played out purely for an "OMG" moment, or to fill a gap on the card, the fans can feel that. 

[Guest]

Also, it's 2020, I don't think its at all enjoyable to see Nia Jaxx beating up Rey Mysterio in the MITB matc, but he's not allowed to land a shot back. 

Becky Lynch vs AJ Styles in a submission match could main event a Wrestlemania... for me anyway.

[Blue blood]

11 minutes ago, JoeH said:

The main issue that Raw and Smackdown face is a lack of true storytelling. I couldn't actually name the last "rivalry" I was truly invested in. The Edge vs Orton stuff was half arsed, I didn't find any enjoyment in the Otis and Mandy thing (although others did). I mean there's no real story. Some of my favourite wrestling moments are when there's this great overarching story that interacts with all the others.

Take the Nexus, their storylines interacted with everything else on the show. Interrupting other matches, influencing other storylines. Same with The Shield's introduction, the reign of the "Authority". Right now it feels like every storyline within the WWE is totally separate to the other. I mean they're desperate to tell us that Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch are this amazing power couple, but we'll just gloss over the fact that the latter ignores the fact that the former is the leader of a bloody Cult. It's so dumb.

It's all about continuity for me. Wrestlers who've faced each other recently should be seen to be wary around each other, there should be "repercussions" and there just aren't. 

People reach the main event just for the sake of it now when there's nobody to fill a gap, and Creative don't even hide it. I mean Bobby Lashley is getting a title shot for staring at Drew McIntyre the wrong way... like what a pathetic story to tell. Effectively they've given up trying to convince us that these guys genuinely hate each other and instead we're booking matches like its the UFC and everything's just so we can put on a decent match.

The Chris Jericho, Kevin Owens, festival of friendship. THAT was a storyline, it had a great pay-off and there was genuine acting, drama and tension there. But it's really difficult to find other angles since then which have actually managed to achieve that. They should be writing RAW like an episode of Eastenders, where every characters actions has a huge effect on the other characters. Braun Strowman spears someone through the LED set? Well that set should stay broken for a good few weeks, ruining some other guy entrance. Seth Rollins starts a cult, well Becky Lynch should be questioning him backstage. Bobby Lashley gets a stupid and random title match that seems totally undeserved, well Ricochet should be backstage complaining to an interviewer about how dumb that is. 

Wrestling needs to feel as real as possible because everybody goes into it with suspended disbelief. If matches are made and rivalries are played out purely for an "OMG" moment, or to fill a gap on the card, the fans can feel that. 

Hard to disagree with that whatsoever. At least Lashley has won a few matches whereas Miz and Morrison get a dumb handicap title match after getting whupped by Strowman. Where's the logic in that. 

Title feuds should be easy to book even without a personal element - the challenger is hungry for the title, the champion desperate to keep it. But yeah I agree there is very little build with this stuff which doesn't make it that exciting. 

Not sure all storylines have to link but they certainly have to hold together - and the Rollins cult and Becky not saying anything really doesn't. It seems pretty odd for me too. 

I'll be honest there's not been a mainstream (non NXT) feud at the moment that really excites, or interests me, so I think we are pretty much on the same page on this. 

Also where is the slow build? Things are really rushed which makes it all the harder for good storylines to be told. Also again at the risk of sounding repetitive, no crowd doesn't help. Take the Otis Mandy storyline it's not my kind of thing either but I could get more caught up in it if others were there enjoying it. 

What makes it really frustrating is they can do it. The men's Royal Rumble match was a good example of this - I was so annoyed at Brock bulldozing through each entrance that I was genuinely delighted when he was eliminated. And they do it fairly well on NXT so it can be done.