Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[DE.]

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's all allegations at this point though, isn't it? Of those you mention above, who has been accused of rape? Ryan, lewd behaviour and sounds bad, but I haven't seen rape mentioned. David Starr, bad behavior too, the accuser mentioned "grey rape", is that an actual thing now? It goes on then kind of similar with the others. Some even being accused by anonymous accounts and this been held up as fact. Maybe I have missed some of the more clear cut accusations/evidence. Maybe some of them are pieces of shit, I just find this anonymous accusations and then immediate repercussions to be a fairly dangerous path. Especially with "famous people" like wrestlers. There are a lot of crazy fans out there. Or you could just have an ex who was hurt and decides to do this. I dunno, it just doesn't sit well with me. It's the climate we are in though. 

Jack Gallagher & Jimmy Havoc I believe have both been accused of rape with substancial evidence. Gallagher was straight up fired by WWE which I think tells you enough. Havoc has gone to some kind of rehab facility and I believe has basically admitted to his actions. Dude is well known for being a horrible human being. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by DE.

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, DE. said:

Jack Gallagher & Jimmy Havoc I believe have all been accused of rape with substancial evidence. Gallagher was straight up fired by WWE which I think tells you enough. Havoc has gone to some kind of rehab facility and I believe has basically admitted to his actions. Dude is well known for being a horrible human being. 

At this stage though, I don't think companies need much encouragement to fire talent. All about balancing the books. Maybe there is more evidence than there is publicly, I would hope so, but it's still the court of public opinion and not an actual court. 

The Joey Ryan stuff is very confusing to me, is he not like, gay? 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

At this stage though, I don't think companies need much encouragement to fire talent. All about balancing the books. Maybe there is more evidence than there is publicly, I would hope so, but it's still the court of public opinion and not a actual court. 

Yeah but there have been other WWE guys accused and none of them fired, only Jack Gallagher. Reading between the lines that has to say something.

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The Joey Ryan stuff is very confusing to me, is he not like, gay? 

Nah his gimmick plays on the gay aspect but he's straight and judging by the tsunami of accusations a serial sexual predator who has hidden behind his gimmick to act like a creep. You can dismiss one or two accusations as misunderstandings or attempts at defaming him, but there are so many at his point - most made by female wrestlers who have no obvious reason to lie - that it's very unlikely he's being set up. The guy is just a piece of shit, full stop.

Of course every case has to be judged on its merits, though. The Matt Riddle accusation, for example, was made by a woman who had been stalking and harrassing him for two years. That's not to say it isn't true because we don't know, but it's the kind of accusation that requires serious investigation by the authorities before anybody makes any judgements. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by DE.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, DE. said:

Yeah but there have been other WWE guys accused and none of them fired, only Jack Gallagher. Reading between the lines that has to say something.

Nah his gimmick plays on the gay aspect but he's straight and judging by the tsunami of accusations a serial sexual predator who has hidden behind his gimmick to act like a creep. You can dismiss one or two accusations as misunderstandings or attempts at defaming him, but there are so many at his point - most made by female wrestlers who have no obvious reason to lie - that it's very unlikely he's being set up. The guy is just a piece of shit, full stop.

Of course every case has to be judged on its merits, though. The Matt Riddle accusation, for example, was made by a woman who had been stalking and harrassing him for two years. That's not to say it isn't true because we don't know, but it's the kind of accusation that requires serious investigation by the authorities before anybody makes any judgements. 

Well to be fair his entire "gimmick" was getting people to touch his dick. I never got him or that to be honest. Not only was it allowed though, it was celebrated and pointed to as an example of  wrestling being "fun". As for Gallagher, well time will tell but I always think that when a company releases a talent before due process, they are probably happy enough to be given the opportunity to do so. They generally wouldn't deal with a main eventer in the same manner. 

It's interesting though, a similar movement is happening over here with comedians. Same issue though insofar as the legitimate accusations are being mixed up with jilted and disgruntled exes looking to take people down.  

[DE.]

I agree on Joey Ryan, I always thought the gimmick was weird and creepy but I guess the assumption was that the performers had agreed to being a part of his act, whereas the accusers didn't. 

The thing with Gallagher is that a fair few low level NXT UK guys have been involved in this but none have been released yet. For Gallagher to be so quickly dismissed suggests to me there is something more to his story. Perhaps he admitted to it or at least indicated he did something he shouldn't have. Either way I don't think we'll be seeing him wrestle again any time soon.

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, DE. said:

I agree on Joey Ryan, I always thought the gimmick was weird and creepy but I guess the assumption was that the performers had agreed to being a part of his act, whereas the accusers didn't. 

The thing with Gallagher is that a fair few low level NXT UK guys have been involved in this but none have been released yet. For Gallagher to be so quickly dismissed suggests to me there is something more to his story. Perhaps he admitted to it or at least indicated he did something he shouldn't have. Either way I don't think we'll be seeing him wrestle again any time soon.

Thinking about it though, you would imagine there was peer pressure to do that dick flip nonsense with Ryan from the locker room. Especially if you were young and new to the business. You get put in a match with him and what do you say? Not much I would imagine, you would just go along with it. A lot of fans taking the moral high ground now, didn't see any issue with that. 

Banks and Jordan Devlin have been suspended. To be honest I would be surprised if Devlin did anything that bad, but time will tell again. 

[DE.]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Thinking about it though, you would imagine there was peer pressure to do that dick flip nonsense with Ryan from the locker room. Especially if you were young and new to the business. You get put in a match with him and what do you say? Not much I would imagine, you would just go along with it. A lot of fans taking the moral high ground now, didn't see any issue with that. 

Banks and Jordan Devlin have been suspended. To be honest I would be surprised if Devlin did anything that bad, but time will tell again. 

Yeah for sure, it's amazing that Joey Ryan's schtick was never really questioned and anybody who did was called boring or stuck in the past. At the very least shitty, creepy gimmicks like that should now be - to quote Matt Hardy - obsolete.

The fact Gallagher went straight past suspension to outright sacked is what makes me think there's more evidence to his case than the others.

Edited June 23, 2020 by DE.

[DE.]

Sadly it looks like NWA Powerrr is done. A lot of releases recently and Zicky Dice (their TV champ) has also been granted his release. With Dave Lagana resigning due to the Speaking Out movement it's not looking good.

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 25/06/2020 at 23:18, DE. said:

Sadly it looks like NWA Powerrr is done. A lot of releases recently and Zicky Dice (their TV champ) has also been granted his release. With Dave Lagana resigning due to the Speaking Out movement it's not looking good.

That's very sad. Was enjoying it. 

[Dreyski]

RIP James Harris/Kamala (Not the Dem VPOTUS candidate)

Kamala & Mean Gene

[Dreyski]

Joe Laurinaitis (Roadwarrior Animal) passes at the age of 60. Still remember their Summerslam '92 entrance. RIP

[DE.]

Sadly we're seeing a lot of 80s wrestlers pass away in their late 50s - 60s in recent years. The roids, alcohol & coke diet of the era was a lethal cocktail for sure. Frankly it's amazing that Ric Flair is still around. 

On another note I was in tears of laughter watching Raw the other day. I don't usually laugh like that when watching wrestling, but WWE deciding to call one of their new, supposedly threatening invaders "Slapjack" just killed me. Every time a commentator mentioned his name I started giggling again. I don't think it was their intention for Slapjack, with his homemade Jason Voorhees mask, to be funny... but at the same time how do you create something like that and not realise that it's completely absurd?

Mace and T-Bar admittedly aren't much better names (all three sound and to some degree look like villains from an 80s cartoon), but Slapjack... poor Shane Thorne.  

Come to think of it, I also burst out laughing when King said something like "T-Bar... that stands for 'That Boy Ain't Right'" - I mean, again, are we supposed to be taking these guys seriously or not? 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by DE.

[Mike E]

The one wrestling death that gets me every year. 15 years ago today, Eddie Guerrero died. The guy who made lying, cheating and stealing something fun to watch from a face character!

One of the greatest at 38, and would likely have only recently stopped wrestling.

[DE.]

Made even more tragic by the Benoit incident, which likely never happens if Eddie lived. Chances are Benoit would still have died before 2010 due to his heart, but he wouldn't have taken Nancy and Daniel with him.

[Vinjay]

13 minutes ago, DE. said:

Made even more tragic by the Benoit incident, which likely never happens if Eddie lived. Chances are Benoit would still have died before 2010 due to his heart, but he wouldn't have taken Nancy and Daniel with him.

You can't possibly know that. While Benoit was certainly devastated by Eddie's death there were other wrestlers who died and were close to Benoit. Of course Eddie is the most high profile so that's why it gets mentioned more. Benoit had already had issues with his wife as far back as 2003 when she took out a restraining order. I don't doubt Benoit had serious health issues overlooked (heart certainly and severe depression) but I don't buy the excuse that his brain was equivalent to that of a dementia patient. It's pathetic that he stayed in the Wrestling Observer HOF (the only reason he got in was his technical wrestling ability and workrate) when "lesser workers" who were somewhat reluctantly voted in probably wouldn't have under same circumstances. That really annoys me.

That said I certainly didn't see any signs that he was capable of doing what he did. When I switched on Raw and saw the graphic followed by the news about his wife/son also being dead my immediate thoughts were either some maniac had killed them or something like carbon monoxide poisoning. I also assumed they were certain of the facts.

[DE.]

You should watch the Dark Side of the Ring episode on Benoit, as well as the Lapsed Fan podcasts on the subject. It will give you a much better understanding of what Eddie's death truly did to Benoit. The psychological impact was far beyond any other deaths he had experienced.

[Vinjay]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

You should watch the Dark Side of the Ring episode on Benoit, as well as the Lapsed Fan podcasts on the subject. It will give you a much better understanding of what Eddie's death truly did to Benoit. The psychological impact was far beyond any other deaths he had experienced.

I haven't watched that. My comments were mainly based on Johnny Grunge who was also a close friend. I acknowledge the point though and Grunge did die a few months after Eddie.

I certainly didn't dislike Benoit but didn't worship him like others did. I was much more into Eddie's match with Lesnar than the WM20 main event a month later. Not that the latter was a bad match because it wasn't. My favourite Benoit match would be the one against Austin on Smackdown with the consecutive suplexes. When they were part of the Radicalz (I didn't watch WCW besides the C5 show near the end) Eddie was the one who stood out to me and at that point he was a midcarder. I don't know why initial thinking I(within the company) was that Benoit was the biggest catch. Because a certain percentage of fans worshipped the guy? Eddie was highly regarded by that group as well. My initial thoughts on Benoit was that he was boring (and one thing I never considered the WWE to be from 97-2001 was boring) and I didn't know how well regarded he was by a certain section of fans until 2001 when I got home internet and started visiting sites besides WWE.COM (which I had looked at in school a few times). I did change my opinion after his PPV main event with the Rock though.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Vinjay

[DE.]

Nitro was the show I first watched as a kid, starting around April/May 1996, and I watched far more WCW than WWE until around late 1998 when the roles reversed. As a result I saw a lot of Benoit before he came to WWE and remember more of his WCW stint (early Horsemen feuds, Raven, DDP, the Horsemen Reunion) than anything he did in WWE. Benoit's rise in WWE coincided with a general drop in interest to me in wrestling in general so I don't have a ton of memories from his WWE days and wasn't watching when he and Eddie had their WM moment.

I can remember liking Benoit in WCW and thinking he was OK but kind of bland in WWE - before I stopped watching some time in mid-2002. I do recall exactly where I was when I heard about his death (outside a nightclub at something like 2am) and it definitely shocked me - especially when the details came out about what really happened.   

[Mike E]

For me, Benoit was BRILLIANT in the ring but not much else. Looking back, I wonder if after his WHC win, he should have been happier to settle into the 'proving ground' role that Cesaro has now or 123 Kid had back in the 90s.

'If Benoit can get a match out of you, you've got a chance' type of thing. Obviously we'll never know now.

So many dream matches that never were involve Eddie and Benoit vs current stars.

[Miller11]

Is anyone watching much wrestling at the moment? 
 

For me the current WWE product is largely unwatchable, and AEW is proving to be little more than a vanity project for a handful of people. 

Having said that, Walter V Ilya Dragunov on NXT UK a couple of weeks back was easily one of the best matches of the last decade. Absolute masterpiece, as far removed as possible from the “cinematic productions” that seem to be all the rage at the moment... and a very welcome change!

[Mike E]

36 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Is anyone watching much wrestling at the moment? 
 

For me the current WWE product is largely unwatchable, and AEW is proving to be little more than a vanity project for a handful of people. 

Having said that, Walter V Ilya Dragunov on NXT UK a couple of weeks back was easily one of the best matches of the last decade. Absolute masterpiece, as far removed as possible from the “cinematic productions” that seem to be all the rage at the moment... and a very welcome change!

I keep up with WWE on WhatcultureWWE, and watch AEW every week. I would watch NXT just as much, but have cut back on what I watch due to cost.

I can see what you mean about AEW being a vanity project, but I just feel like I'm watching a fantastic variety show each week and I like that they try completely weird things.

Also helps that Mrs E hasn't ridiculed AEW yet, but she did WWE and NXT.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Mike E

[The balconator]

Today I learned about kayfabe via the blindboy podcast . He applied it to American politics . He also had a chat with a wrestler called sami zayne. I found it entertaining I believe for wrestling fans it’s a must listen 

[Mike E]

33 minutes ago, The balconator said:

Today I learned about kayfabe via the blindboy podcast . He applied it to American politics . He also had a chat with a wrestler called sami zayne. I found it entertaining I believe for wrestling fans it’s a must listen 

Sami is a fantastic wrestler and all-round good guy.

[The balconator]

14 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Sami is a fantastic wrestler and all-round good guy.

Blindboy interview with him is good 

[Blue blood]

16 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Is anyone watching much wrestling at the moment? 
 

For me the current WWE product is largely unwatchable, and AEW is proving to be little more than a vanity project for a handful of people. 

Having said that, Walter V Ilya Dragunov on NXT UK a couple of weeks back was easily one of the best matches of the last decade. Absolute masterpiece, as far removed as possible from the “cinematic productions” that seem to be all the rage at the moment... and a very welcome change!

Watch NXT and NXT UK as well as the PPVs on the network. 

Whilst I would say unwatchable is overly harsh I would say that it is definitely a mixed bag. 

NXT is in my view the strongest of the products and still produces some.good and great quality matches. However it's not imo at the level it was a year or two ago. It had a couple of years where it was simply excellent and it has fallen far from those standards, especially in light of character development. People turn from faces to heels and vice versa with little reasoning and in a short space of time which undermines the brand's credibility. The in ring action is still pretty solid but their slow storytelling and character development was a strength so for that to go is a big loss. 

As for the rest it's a very mixed bag with some gems thrown in. Most PPVs have a few good matches in and a fair whack of cross, NXT UK similar. Can't remember too many good PPVs where I was really invested - a couple of matches at Summer Slam being a notable exception. When it's good the product is very good but when it isn't it is quite bland. 

Is that better than previous years? Debatable. I thought Drew was a good champion giving good matches. But a lack of crowd doesn't help and must be having a huge impact on the quality of things.