[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Amo]

Anyone else noticed the positive spin about Sam's appointment in todays press!

You'd have thought West Ham had brought Mourinho in!

According to some, Sam is just the overweight, Dudley version of the 'Special One'.

Naming no names.

[thenodrog]

I'm putting my money on them not getting back up next season, nothing to do with Allardyce, but they'll struggle.

How much are you risking?

[thenodrog]

I think you've oversimplified Sam's chosen tactics. I saw a manager playing a mix of styles, dependent on the players available to him. At the Rovers, that meant primarily, but not exclusively, "route one" football.

As he did at Bolton. However our small band of proper 'experts' won't be able to recognise that.

[thenodrog]

Guess we're about to see whether or not he can live up to his enormous ego and the ludicrous claims of some on here ("best manager outside the top 4" ).

Little task for you MarkBRFC71. You seem a really bright bugger err chap so can you compile a table of Premier League appearences gained by the current Premier League managers up to date? I think you'll find Allardyce in 4th or 5th position. When you have done that how about doing the same exercise with Premier League points gained. Allardyce's career must be seen as incredible achievement by any manager in an environment which does not tolerate failure and with an average managerial tenure of approx 2 years. I suggest that he has many talents that you are unable to recognise.

Off you go and don't come back until you are finished.

[SD4E]

According to some, Sam is just the overweight, Dudley version of the 'Special One'.

Naming no names.

Whilst claiming others that have the opposite opinion to them have limited football knowledge too , completely missing the irony in 99% of their own posts

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

It all boils down to the style or substance argument in my opinion when it comes to Sam. Which would you rather have? Half the fans on here favour style (seeming to prefer a lower finish under Kean with more passing football) and half favour substance. Of course we'd all hope to have both but I find expecting to have both to be a bit unreasonable given we will almost always be outmuscled financially and support-wise in this league.

Sam's critics should stop pretending he doesn't get results. His record at Bolton was superb however you look at it. And his record here was very solid given the lack of funds and unavoidable losses of Bentley, Friedel, Warnock, McCarthy and Santa Cruz from Hughes' side (£40m of talent, of which Sam received £14.5m plus Robinson to replace them).

And Sam's fans (of which I'm one) should stop pretending, when they do on occasion, that his style is varied or involves much passing through the midfield. Its not really is it, he deliberately plays to percentages. Skips the midfield, uses long throws, plays to a target man, only committs 3-4 players to an attack.

Its not pretty, it gets results. Sam in a nutshell.

[MarkBRFC71]

Little task for you MarkBRFC71. You seem a really bright bugger err chap so can you compile a table of Premier League appearences gained by the current Premier League managers up to date? I think you'll find Allardyce in 4th or 5th position. When you have done that how about doing the same exercise with Premier League points gained. Allardyce's career must be seen as incredible achievement by any manager in an environment which does not tolerate failure and with an average managerial tenure of approx 2 years. I suggest that he has many talents that you are unable to recognise.

Off you go and don't come back until you are finished.

A quick look here (http://premiersoccerstats.com/Managers.cfm), using points per game (the fairest measure of performance I'm sure you'll agree) reveals Sam's average points per game across his time in the Prem is 1.296. Beaten by 'top' managers like Glenn Hoddle, Tony Parkes, Frank Clark, John Gregory, Gerry Francis, Martin O' Neill, & Ray Harford. I haven't bothered to check to real top 15/20 Premier League managers as he'll be nowhere near.

If you still want to prove he's 4th or 5th, or pick at my likely pretty shoddy calculations, knock yourself out.

Good luck to him at WHU, he's going to need it.

[John]

It all boils down to the style or substance argument in my opinion when it comes to Sam. Which would you rather have? Half the fans on here favour style (seeming to prefer a lower finish under Kean with more passing football) and half favour substance. Of course we'd all hope to have both but I find expecting to have both to be a bit unreasonable given we will almost always be outmuscled financially and support-wise in this league.

Sam's critics should stop pretending he doesn't get results. His record at Bolton was superb however you look at it. And his record here was very solid given the lack of funds and unavoidable losses of Bentley, Friedel, Warnock, McCarthy and Santa Cruz from Hughes' side (£40m of talent, of which Sam received £14.5m plus Robinson to replace them).

And Sam's fans (of which I'm one) should stop pretending, when they do on occasion, that his style is varied or involves much passing through the midfield. Its not really is it, he deliberately plays to percentages. Skips the midfield, uses long throws, plays to a target man, only committs 3-4 players to an attack.

Its not pretty, it gets results. Sam in a nutshell.

Sam does not just get results, he gets fanstastic results and has done a very good job at most clubs he's been at and ultimately improved them.

Bolton - seven straight seasons in the Premier League, four consecutive top eight finishes, two seasons out of three qualifying for Europe, very impressive.

Newcastle - not given enough time clearly, however he still left with them in a higher position than they’d finished the previous season. Plus they got relegated following his sacking.

Rovers - as we know, came in to a complete mess that was the work of Paul Ince. Guided us to safety in his first season. In his first full seasn, whilst most our best players were being sold either under him or Ince, we finished the 10th best team in the land spending hardly anything in relative terms. Pro rate, this season, we were on course for another top 10 finish.

Like him or not, he is a very good football manager who can get the best out of the resources at his disposal.

[Mattyblue]

Sam does not just get results, he gets fanstastic results and has done a very good job at most clubs he's been at and ultimately improved them.

Bolton - seven straight seasons in the Premier League, four consecutive top eight finishes, two seasons out of three qualifying for Europe, very impressive.

Newcastle - not given enough time clearly, however but he still left with them in a higher position than they’d finished the previous season. Plus they got relegated following his sacking.

Rovers - as we know, came in to a complete mess that was the work of Paul Ince. Guided us to safety in his first season. In his first full seasn, whilst all our best players were being sold previously, we finished the 10th best team in the land spending hardly anything in relative terms.

Like him or not, he is a very good football manager who can get the best out of the resources at his disposal.

John, you know that's true, I know that's true, unfortunately there is a minority of Rovers fans that will NEVER accept that.

'hoofball', 'arrogant', 'thinks he can manage Real Madrid', 'fat slug' and so on.

You will never change their minds so I've stopped bothering.

[roversmum]

I think most people have actually accepted that from their own observations.

It's the likes of you going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on ad infinitum about it that they are fed up with.

[ABBEY]

John, you know that's true, I know that's true, unfortunately there is a minority of Rovers fans that will NEVER accept that.

'hoofball', 'arrogant', 'thinks he can manage Real Madrid', 'fat slug' and so on.

You will never change their minds so I've stopped bothering.

he did hoof..he is arrogant ...he did say about Madrid..granted slug is a nickname..would you be trying to change the facts.....minority? On here perhaps but not amongst fans not on here.

Sam does not just get results, he gets fanstastic results and has done a very good job at most clubs he's been at and ultimately improved them.

Bolton - seven straight seasons in the Premier League, four consecutive top eight finishes, two seasons out of three qualifying for Europe, very impressive.

Newcastle - not given enough time clearly, however he still left with them in a higher position than they’d finished the previous season. Plus they got relegated following his sacking.

Rovers - as we know, came in to a complete mess that was the work of Paul Ince. Guided us to safety in his first season. In his first full seasn, whilst most our best players were being sold either under him or Ince, we finished the 10th best team in the land spending hardly anything in relative terms. Pro rate, this season, we were on course for another top 10 finish.

Like him or not, he is a very good football manager who can get the best out of the resources at his disposal.

if getting fantastic results means 7,6 and five goals conceded is fantastic results I'd hate to see crappy ones.

[JAL]

With big Sam at West Ham and Stephen Kean at Rovers. The end of next season certainly has Rovers down, West Ham up, written allover it, does it not.

[yeti-dog]

Any chance you can cut the Stephen Kean cr@p now,it's getting tedious.

A bit disparaging too,which I guess is your objective.

[super_arran]

A quick look here (http://premiersoccerstats.com/Managers.cfm), using points per game (the fairest measure of performance I'm sure you'll agree) reveals Sam's average points per game across his time in the Prem is 1.296. Beaten by 'top' managers like Glenn Hoddle, Tony Parkes, Frank Clark, John Gregory, Gerry Francis, Martin O' Neill, & Ray Harford. I haven't bothered to check to real top 15/20 Premier League managers as he'll be nowhere near.

If you still want to prove he's 4th or 5th, or pick at my likely pretty shoddy calculations, knock yourself out.

Good luck to him at WHU, he's going to need it.

"Ooooooh snap!" haha

[Tom]

I still say Sam is a decent manager but getting Wham back up won't prove anything, they have to be favourites to win the league whoever was in charge.

Reading some of the posts though it seems some of you would rather be in the championship with Sam than in the Preniership with Kean. Funny really as often people said in the height of boredom they would rather be shut of Sam even if it meant relegation.

[Steve Moss]

A quick look here (http://premiersoccerstats.com/Managers.cfm), using points per game (the fairest measure of performance I'm sure you'll agree) reveals Sam's average points per game across his time in the Prem is 1.296. Beaten by 'top' managers like Glenn Hoddle, Tony Parkes, Frank Clark, John Gregory, Gerry Francis, Martin O' Neill, & Ray Harford. I haven't bothered to check to real top 15/20 Premier League managers as he'll be nowhere near.

http://premiersoccerstats.com/ManagerDets.cfm?ManagerID=AllardyceS

Sam's record:

1.35 points at Bolton, or 51.3 points per season average.

1.24 points at Newcastle, or 47.2 points per season average.

1.3 points at Blackburn, or 49.4 points per season average.

Per wiki, which probably includes non-league matches, he is:

1.5185 points per match, at Bolton.

1.25 points per match, at Newcastle.

1.33 points per match, at Rovers.

All on comparatively little money.

Compared to Kean's 1.12 points per match (including non-league) at Rovers.

I fail to see how we've advanced the Rovers by sacking Sam and hiring Kean.

And all things considered, including finances and having to rehabilitate older players, yes Sam Allardyce is a top manager.

It's fairly clear to me that Venkys screwed up. If the first step of recovery is admitting a problem, it's about time they looked in a mirror and corrected course.

[Stuart]

Anyone else noticed the positive spin about Sam's appointment in todays press!

You'd have thought West Ham had brought Mourinho in!

Got to love Southern Journo's, they hated him everywhere else he's ever been

Can't say I'm overly shocked...

It'll be very interesting to see Sam's brand be relaunched at a "footballing club" like West Ham, if he does go there.

All of a sudden he won't be a hoofball merchant any more and the press will probably extol the virtues of the grit and steel added to their skill and flair.

I also had a quick look on KUMB yesterday and the fans all seem sicklily united behind him. Rovers fans weren't completely united even when he first arrived here when we were deep in the mire. (Maybe that says more about us than them!)

Massive pressure on Sam to deliver now though. A few steady/unconvincing/boring games (without winning) and I'm sure they'll turn on him. It'll be interesting to see how he follows through on his "give the fans the style of football they want - at home" - given that a.) attacking/passing football is not his style and b.) it'll be a Cup Final away day for most of his opponents. (I'll ignore the sentiment itself which is a whole different debate). So can he (ironically) do a Newcastle? Maybe he should bring in Hughton as his assistant?

notBigSam_

"Like a potent and magnificent case of the fecal squirts, Big Sam is back with a bang."

Indeed. Good luck Sam.

[47er]

Reading some of the posts though it seems some of you would rather be in the championship with Sam than in the Preniership with Kean. Funny really as often people said in the height of boredom they would rather be shut of Sam even if it meant relegation.

1st sentence constitutes a wild conclusion from you with no basis in reality. Second sentence------wouldn't be the same people would it?

What a pointless post!

[davulsukur]

http://premiersoccerstats.com/ManagerDets.cfm?ManagerID=AllardyceS

Sam's record:

1.35 points at Bolton, or 51.3 points per season average.

1.24 points at Newcastle, or 47.2 points per season average.

1.3 points at Blackburn, or 49.4 points per season average.

Per wiki, which probably includes non-league matches, he is:

1.5185 points per match, at Bolton.

1.25 points per match, at Newcastle.

1.33 points per match, at Rovers.

All on comparatively little money.

Compared to Kean's 1.12 points per match (including non-league) at Rovers.

I fail to see how we've advanced the Rovers by sacking Sam and hiring Kean.

And all things considered, including finances and having to rehabilitate older players, yes Sam Allardyce is a top manager.

It's fairly clear to me that Venkys screwed up. If the first step of recovery is admitting a problem, it's about time they looked in a mirror and corrected course.

Why does this debate continue?

The amount of times people produce Allardyce's managerial career history is beyond infuriating, the comparision between a manager of 10 years and one of 6 months is totally unfair and one sided.

What are people extecting?

If sams record was slightly worse than Keans, would Kean be classed as a better manager? No he wouldn't because he's only had 21 (or somewhere around there) games as a manager.

As for moving forward, we have survived relegation, moving forward will, or will not happen next season.

[Stuart]

Why does this debate continue?

Because Kean is:

a.) Still Rovers manager

b.) not as successful as Allardyce

c.) not likely to be ...(opinion alert)

And Sam has gone on to the dizzy heights of Championship football, despite there being vacancies in the PL!

Plenty to debate still...

[davulsukur]

Because Kean is:

a.) Still Rovers manager

b.) not as successful as Allardyce

c.) not likely to be ...(opinion alert)

And Sam has gone on to the dizzy heights of Championship football, despite there being vacancies in the PL!

Plenty to debate still...

Pointless debating what may or may not have happened if Sam was still here, no one can say for certain.

We survived, if we had gone down, maybe the debate could rage on about him keeping us in the league.

Of course he isn't as successful as Allardyce, he's only had a job for 6 months as a manager.

Not likely to be is difficult to say, as you can only judge kean on 21 games in the tightest premier league for years.

[Tom]

1st sentence constitutes a wild conclusion from you with no basis in reality. Second sentence------wouldn't be the same people would it?

What a pointless post!

What a pointless reply.

Yep because all 15 pages of this thread have been essential reading right?

There have been a few people saying how it looks as we will swap places with West Ham next season making it out that their position is the preferable one.

[Stuart]

Pointless debating what may or may not have happened if Sam was still here, no one can say for certain.

We survived, if we had gone down, maybe the debate could rage on about him keeping us in the league.

Of course he isn't as successful as Allardyce, he's only had a job for 6 months as a manager.

Not likely to be is difficult to say, as you can only judge kean on 21 games in the tightest premier league for years.

I don't think it's so much about us staying up last season as what may happen next season.

But this is not the thread for that.

It is the thread for discussing Sam Allardyce though, and as Rovers fans the natural thing is to compare him with the current incumbent.

Plus we are currently a club "in transition" and fans are, rightly, unsettled. The one thing Sam brought was the relative certainty of safety. We hear some speculation (e.g. Samba, Jones, or even Hoilett leaving); or Mutu (!) being linked; or Tom Finn going; and the wounds are opened again, and we revisit the cyclic debate about where we might have been if Sam had been given the money to spend instead of Kean. Not ideal but understandable.

All this said, this thread still has a place. There is a chance to see how Sam might have steered Rovers in the Championship had he taken us down. I'll be watching with interest.

[davulsukur]

There is a place for a Sam Allardyce thread, just didn't see the point in the endless continuing debate with Sam Vs Kean.

[True Blue & White]

We're forever hoofing footballs,

Ugly footballs in the air.

They fly so high,

Nearly reach the sky,

Then like our dreams,

They fade and die.