[Archived] Summer 2011 Transfer Window Part One

[den]

  On 12/06/2011 at 12:32, nicko said:

But to presume that Indian business people are in some way thick when they employ widly-expensive lawyers to do contracts is plain daft.

You're bringing in the use of the word "Indian". Everyone else* has used the word "Venky's", when discussing the contract situation.

on this site*

[47er]

  On 12/06/2011 at 12:42, patrickvalery said:

It is a very valid point. I'm no wordsmith so i can't pin point where or how some newspapers have done it, but lots of the articles portrayed a real feeling of desperation on Venky's part. As if they were kids stamping their feet and not letting go of their prized possession. Without any basis for complaint or negotiation. We can all speculate on what is and what isn't happening, but the silence Utd's end speaks volumes. If this deal was right and proper then it would have been completed days ago.

It seems most of the rags hold absolute contempt for Venkys. Based on what? I would suggest one thing and one thing only. Sam bleeding Allardyce. They should have handled that in a better fashion, but it shouldn't be a stick to beat them with forever more. If Utd have a case to answer then it makes for a refreshing change to hear someone standing up to them.

To be fair all that Maradonna crap and various marquee signings----Beckham, Ronaldinho etc didn't exactly help,

[BlueWhiteDynamite]

But to presume that Indian business people are in some way thick when they employ widly-expensive lawyers to do contracts is plain daft.

This is the main point a lot of people on here who have called our owners naive appear to have missed.

Too much football Manager syndrome believing contracts are drawn up and negotiated by managers and forgetting its a business where accountants and lawyers have major control on issues.

as i said, if the contract used the wording release clause, we have have little option but to release at that price. Now obviously Blackburn's argument (whatever that may be) must hold some or a lot of truth otherwise Man Utd and Phil Jones would have us in court over breach of contract.

If i was PJ the forst thing i'd be doing is having a serious think about his agent, if a 16mill release clause was demanded then his agent/ lawyers have made a serious error.

[patrickvalery]

  On 12/06/2011 at 12:45, 47er said:

To be fair all that Maradonna crap and various marquee signings----Beckham, Ronaldinho etc didn't exactly help,

I stand corrected.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

  On 12/06/2011 at 12:32, nicko said:

Let's have it right. There is always suspicion about outsiders and people you don't know.

There is no doubt that particular elephant has been in the room for some time.

But to presume that Indian business people are in some way thick when they employ widly-expensive lawyers to do contracts is plain daft.

You would not have seen some of the snide stuff in the papers recently if it had been Man U standing up for a clause in their contract and 'concerned' about the background to the deal.

Nicko, I don't care if our new owners are from the dark side of the moon. What does concern me is they're starting out from a position of knowing next to nothing about football and particularly Premier League football.

[nicko]

Just a brief point on the Jones contract.

It was the owners rather than the agents who wanted the price clause put in.

[chocky]

How many owners are experts at football or know much about it? Not many. They bankroll their teams so insist on a say in what happens. Do you think Liverpools owners. Manchester United's owners, Arsenal's owners know as much or more than ours do? I don't think so.

[nicko]

  On 12/06/2011 at 12:52, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Nicko, I don't care if our new owners are from the dark side of the moon. What does concern me is they're starting out from a position of knowing next to nothing about football and particularly Premier League football.

A lot of modern-day owners know next to nothing about football.

The Glazers. The Yanks who bought Liverpool BOTH times. Randy Lerner - giving Houllier the job proved that. Roman Abramovich saw one game before he bought Chelsea. The same goes for Gaydamak when he was at Portsmouth.

None of these people knew anything about the game.

Yet NONE of them walked into the sneers that greeted the Indians.

Anyway, this is going over tired old ground.

[yeti-dog]

  On 12/06/2011 at 12:44, den said:

You're bringing in the use of the word "Indian". Everyone else* has used the word "Venky's", when discussing the contract situation.

on this site*

You're either being or disengenuous or naive...there's been some unpleasant stuff on here by certain 'respected' posters for a long while.

Descriptions of Venky's as 'that mob' and 'slumdog millionaires' are offensive and un-necessary and keep feeding mistrust and disdain.

[pick32]

Nicko any news on incomings?

[patrickvalery]

  On 12/06/2011 at 12:55, nicko said:

Just a brief point on the Jones contract.

It was the owners rather than the agents who wanted the price clause put in.

A fact which will get the usual abuse no doubt.

However, this just further enhances what a shrewd piece of business it was and also suggests our owners know exactly what the situation is here. If it was a clause they insisted on then logic dictates it would be a minimum figure used to negotiate up from. I obviously don't know the details here, but perhaps the wording and structure of this contract was very savy indeed.

[Balwer]

  On 12/06/2011 at 12:58, nicko said:

A lot of modern-day owners know next to nothing about football.

The Glazers. The Yanks who bought Liverpool BOTH times. Randy Lerner - giving Houllier the job proved that. Roman Abramovich saw one game before he bought Chelsea. The same goes for Gaydamak when he was at Portsmouth.

None of these people knew anything about the game.

Yet NONE of them walked into the sneers that greeted the Indians.

Anyway, this is going over tired old ground.

The Glazers, current Liverpool owners and Randy Lerner have all owned large sporting franchises however, which does give them something of a leg up.

[chocky]

  On 12/06/2011 at 13:01, Balwer said:

The Glazers, current Liverpool owners and Randy Lerner have all owned large sporting franchises however, which does give them something of a leg up.

They still know F-all about football...

[nicko]

  On 12/06/2011 at 13:01, Balwer said:

The Glazers, current Liverpool owners and Randy Lerner have all owned large sporting franchises however, which does give them something of a leg up.

NOTHING prepares you for modern-day Premier League football.

The 'nudge nudge' deals, the bending and breaking of rules, the agents, the dark dealings.

I think the owners have had a crach course in what goes on since they came in.

They did now know what they were letting themselves in for.

They would not like some things that they have seen.

But at least they have the balls [including Mrs D] to stand up for themselves and their club.

For all of that...I would like to see some signings please.

[Balwer]

  On 12/06/2011 at 13:04, nicko said:

NOTHING prepares you for modern-day Premier League football.

The 'nudge nudge' deals, the bending and breaking of rules, the agents, the dark dealings.

I think the owners have had a crach course in what goes on since they came in.

They did now know what they were letting themselves in for.

They would not like some things that they have seen.

But at least they have the balls [including Mrs D] to stand up for themselves and their club.

For all of that...I would like to see some signings please.

I think that they're showing they are good business people with the Jones deal, but I don't personally feel that was ever in any doubt. Hopefully they are learning swiftly what it takes to succeed in football ownership, and part of that is surrounding yourself with top management who do know and can advise you on these things and I feel they're still lacking in that category. Agree entirely on the signings like most of the fans.

[broadsword]

  On 12/06/2011 at 12:37, BuckyRover said:

Indeed. Yet people on here use this condescending press as a reason why Venky's are bad.

We have never been liked so I don't know why people care now.

For example, Bryan posted a link to a journalist saying something along the lines of "Blackburn should just get over themselves, they are idiots, they put the clause in the contract and should just let Man Utd do what they want".

What on Earth are you talking about?

[Exiled in Toronto]

  On 12/06/2011 at 13:04, nicko said:

NOTHING prepares you for modern-day Premier League football.

The 'nudge nudge' deals, the bending and breaking of rules, the agents, the dark dealings.

I think the owners have had a crach course in what goes on since they came in.

They did now know what they were letting themselves in for.

They would not like some things that they have seen.

But at least they have the balls [including Mrs D] to stand up for themselves and their club.

For all of that...I would like to see some signings please.

It has bemused me on here how so many posters have taken a bizarre moral high ground in (pre) judging the Venky's, "They lied" etc., and in the next breathe castigate themn for being innocents in the murky world of football where dishonesty, lying, stealing, is a way of life.

[Black Burn]

  On 12/06/2011 at 13:11, Bryan said:

What on Earth are you talking about?

I think he was referring to a different Bryan.

[Majiball]

  On 12/06/2011 at 13:04, nicko said:

NOTHING prepares you for modern-day Premier League football.

The 'nudge nudge' deals, the bending and breaking of rules, the agents, the dark dealings.

I think the owners have had a crach course in what goes on since they came in.

They did now know what they were letting themselves in for.

They would not like some things that they have seen.

But at least they have the balls [including Mrs D] to stand up for themselves and their club.

For all of that...I would like to see some signings please.

Perhaps some research would have helped??? Maybe their advisors could have enlightened them? JW staying on giving some guidance would also have helped. They have had every oppurtunity to find out what football is really like, ruthless.

Ignorance is no excuse and you know it.

The fact they haven't just shows me they are either ignorant, extremely arrogant or stupid.

[rebelmswar]

  On 12/06/2011 at 13:11, Bryan said:

What on Earth are you talking about?

Send a priority one message to starfleet command, Bryan has engaged the Bucky.

[EgyptianPete]

If as is being reported that Man u are now offering £20.5 million for Jones then our owners should get a lot of respect from certainly us the supporters, Do you think if Sam had still have been here Utd would have got him for the release clause only, any how if Samba is the next to leave I suspect that he will have a similar clause in his contract, add to that one quote from Pune was that any incoming money was irrelevant, they were offering Jones the captaincy and a huge wage by our standards, so for me we are reluctantly selling one of our best players probably since Shearer, I only hope it doesn't come back to haunt him.(Grass greener etc.)

[patrickvalery]

  On 12/06/2011 at 13:15, Majiball said:

Perhaps some research would have helped??? Maybe their advisors could have enlightened them? JW staying on giving some guidance would also have helped. They have had every oppurtunity to find out what football is really like, ruthless.

Ignorance is no excuse and you know it.

The fact they haven't just shows me they are either ignorant, extremely arrogant or stupid.

Maybe this is why they persist with a their advisors? Some might say they could give a helpful insight into the darker side of football.

[Kenwoo]

  On 12/06/2011 at 13:14, Black Burn said:

I think he was referring to a different Bryan.

love this

[rebelmswar]

I have joked about Venkeys whenever I felt like it and as lots of people I have been left bemused by many decisions and quotes. I tend to joke when I am worried or down - goes with the job.

But on this one I could not be happier with them. I couldn't give a damn what the papers say, they have stood up for us, toe to toe with the devils machine and for that I, for one, am grateful.

Good on you Venkeys, keep it up.

[Parsonblue]

  On 12/06/2011 at 13:00, yeti-dog said:

You're either being or disengenuous or naive...there's been some unpleasant stuff on here by certain 'respected' posters for a long while.

Descriptions of Venky's as 'that mob' and 'slumdog millionaires' are offensive and un-necessary and keep feeding mistrust and disdain.

What will keep feeding mistrust and disdain is if any criticism of the present owners is met with accusations of racisim. Respect must be earned over a period of time and some of the early decisions that our new owners made were naive in the extreme. After 50 years of supporting this club I don't care who owns us as long as they do their best for Blackburn Rovers. While any remarks of a racist nature are totally unacceptable, I do take exception to the continual snide accusations of racism against anyone who is in anyway critical of the new owners. As far as I am concerned the Rao family are like anyone else. Get results, keep the club in the top half of the table, bring in decent players and encourage youth development and they'll have my respect. However, like any other owner, if things slide then they will come in for criticism.

If they can get more money out of United for Jones then fair play to them. I'll hold my hands up and congratulate them. However, it will be results that they and their chosen manager are judged on.

I think most people will accept that the Rao family embarked upon a steep learning curve and some of their statements have been confusing to say the least. Hopefully they are learning and perhaps the involvement of Mrs. Desai in the Jones deal shows that they are prepared to be more hands on rather than leave it to their advisors.