[Archived] Summer 2011 Transfer Window Part One

[nicko]

The Mail, Independent and Telegraph all get their 'tips' from one source.

I will let you guess who that is.

Maybe check the stories to find out...it will come as a shock.

To some.

Not that hard.

In the meantime Jones won't be going anywhere until Rovers are happy with the deal.

Is this a good time to point out he is under contract?

'Powerless?'

[Kenwoo]

I doubt any of us know enough info to accurately assess whether they've done right or wrong. What we do know is the lad wanted to go.

[Ricky]

JAL, how have they messed up big time? The player wanted to move!! We've always lost players before. I didn't see you getting in your high horse about the trust when we lost bellamy and bentley. Both had clauses in their contracts. Bentley had a ridiculously large sell on clause and Bellamy a very low release clause. At that stage you'd never even hears of venkys!! I bet you'd still try to blame them for those deals as well given half a chance.

Unbelievable Geoff!!

[cesus]

Let's not beat around the bush here blame the owners all you like but its a certain P. Jones and his agent that will have insisted on a release clause. Venkys could have insisted on it being say £25m but then I'm sure the contract wouldn't have been signed. I remember Craig Bellamy waltzing into Ewood and leaving just as quickly through a contract clause under the old regime. I bet most of our players have them, Blackburn aren't going anywhere fast so our players will want an escape strategy if things are going well, players own ALL the trump cards.

[bigbrandjohn]

The Mail, Independent and Telegraph all get their 'tips' from one source.

I will let you guess who that is.

Maybe check the stories to find out...it will come as a shock.

To some.

Not that hard.

In the meantime Jones won't be going anywhere until Rovers are happy with the deal.

Is this a good time to point out he is under contract?

'Powerless?'

Go on Son, take on those tea suppin literati. Theres only one Nicko.

If you are right, which I have no doubt of course, then that would be luvly and a smack in the kisser for Fergie. Not that the money means too much to him.

[JAL]

JAL, how have they messed up big time? The player wanted to move!! We've always lost players before. I didn't see you getting in your high horse about the trust when we lost bellamy and bentley. Both had clauses in their contracts. Bentley had a ridiculously large sell on clause and Bellamy a very low release clause. At that stage you'd never even hears of venkys!! I bet you'd still try to blame them for those deals as well given half a chance.

Unbelievable Geoff!!

How, by letting go an oustanding footballer, employing a dick as a manager, who has no idea on being capable of, or improving the situation, except only by a form of words.

Plus, forcing out the higher management team without having a period of handover, to someone equally experienced in order to ensure the smooth operation of the club rather than this headless chicken corporation thats been in place since November that has caused its employees to voice many concerns through friends family etc.,

[Taggart]

You're taking the pish here.

Venkys have cocked up BIG TIME by losing Phil Jones to Man U.

Why ? they would have cocked up big time if he was going for around 10 million - the lad wants to go and play on a bigger stage, all credit to him and well done to PJ for making that opportunity for himself, I hope he is as successful as we all think he will be. Not sure why people have such a venonmous grudge against the Venkys, it really annoys me as they are tryign to do right by the football club that we support - give them a chance.

even if we get 16.5 million for PJ, good for Venkys on making sure we get a good sum for him and not snatched away ala Bellamy.

[Mattyblue]

even if we get 16.5 million for PJ, good for Venkys on making sure we get a good sum for him and not snatched away ala Bellamy.

We need to knock these clauses on the head. Be it Venky's, Trust, JW, whoever.

Gives us such a weak negotiating position. However, it seems more likely to happen now- I'm sure Hoilett is eyeing up a clause as we speak.

[Mercer]

[url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/8571818/Phil-Jones-to-sign-for-Manchester-United-after-Blackburn-

The absence of a recognisable structure of senior management at Ewood Park following the recent departures of long-serving chairman John Williams and managing director Tom Finn has contributed to the confusion surrounding the Jones transfer.

So the owners put the clause in and did so incompetently.

Then postured to try to get out of it.

Gosh, I am impressed.

I think that you are bang on here.

IMO, based on what we've seen so far, the Rao family are not sharp commercial operators.

Pearson is being mentioned for some senior role at Rovers but, IMO, his record with Derby & Hull (hardly sparkling as either an operator or financier) shows just how fortunate we were with Messrs Williams and Finn.

Finally, IMO, anyone with a degree of savvy wouldn't touch RSC with a sh1tty stick. Injury prone players do not get any better eg Woodgate, King, Grella, Dunn etc. Again, IMO, it's all nonsense about if he can get a full pre season behind him. Unfortunately, IMO, his knee(s) will always prevent him being the athlete that perhaps he was many, many, years ago. We need players who are almost guaranteed to be fully fit and available for 90% of all fixtures.

[braddock]

We need to knock these clauses on the head. Be it Venky's, Trust, JW, whoever.

Gives us such a weak negotiating position. However, it seems more likely to happen now- I'm sure Hoilett is eyeing up a clause as we speak.

And how many will run their contracts down and leave on a free, or simply not join the club in the first place if they have ambition for greater things, which you'd hope some would? We'd have never seen the likes of Bellamy in the first place. The clauses are placed at a higher valuation than the person is worth at the time (usually due to a depleted number of years left on their contract and the only way to tie them down for longer and ensure we get a decent price for them is to include such a clause, or they won't sign the contract in the first place and leave for much less). It's a fine balancing act, and people will always think they could have got more, unless it's City coming in for Santa.

Offering Jones a new deal was to ensure that if his head was turned we would get a fair price. Without a clause and 3 years or so on his contract we would have eventually had to let him go if his performances had dropped and he'd thrown his toys out of the pram (3 years is a long time, we don't know how his feelings towards the club would have developed). Whilst some people see it as reducing our negotiating power, it ensures that we get a good price at the very least.

If you are talking about everybody dropping the clauses, that will never happen either. Wouldn't be wise for just us to opt out of them. We'd be a less attractive club for players who'd see us as a stepping stone.

I think that you are bang on here.

IMO, based on what we've seen so far, the Rao family are not sharp commercial operators.

Pearson is being mentioned for some senior role at Rovers but, IMO, his record with Derby & Hull (hardly sparkling as either an operator or financier) shows just how fortunate we were with Messrs Williams and Finn.

Finally, IMO, anyone with a degree of savvy wouldn't touch RSC with a sh1tty stick. Injury prone players do not get any better eg Woodgate, King, Grella, Dunn etc. Again, IMO, it's all nonsense about if he can get a full pre season behind him. Unfortunately, IMO, his knee(s) will always prevent him being the athlete that perhaps he was many, many, years ago. We need players who are almost guaranteed to be fully fit and available for 90% of all fixtures.

Most people gather that you are posting your opinion. That's the nature of a messageboard. This isn't a personal attack, it was just annoying to read a post which looked like it was written cowering behind your own self doubt.

[Mattyblue]

But Jones wasn't a fair price. 16million was way under valued even when he signed the deal. We knew it, Venky's knew it, Jones and his agent knew it.

Also, according to nicko, Samba doesn't have a clause (and he recently signed a new deal).

So they aren't essential.

[SG192]

If Venky's emulated the success of the early 90's, I get the impression some people would still find fault.

[Kelbo]

Whatever. Just another anti-Venky's-mafia crusader dishing the dirt ... ... "Ive been told" ... yes of course you've been told.

By the way - you did have a Twitter feed that was extremely anti-Venky's - bordering on libel in fact. You advertised it on page 275 of the SK thread on this very MB -

It's gone completely. Did you get scared, or did you get chased?

Oh, and another name drop. "Rather high ranking" ... are you related to Kelbo?

Thanks Tris, dont know what I have done to you but you certainly like to keep provoking me, unfortunately, I dont let anyone provoke me, however, I would kindly ask you to refrain from dropping my name in your comments, you may have some fixation on me but I'm a married man with three grown up children.

[braddock]

But Jones wasn't a fair price. 16million was way under valued even when he signed the deal. We knew it, Venky's knew it, Jones and his agent knew it.

Also, according to nicko, Samba doesn't have a clause (and he recently signed a new deal).

So they aren't essential.

It was a better price than what we might have got for him.

Nobody knows if he would have signed it if we'd have stuck it at £25mil.

I think £16mil is pretty good for somebody who has only just become a professional, and part of his learning curve has included a substantial injury. I do believe we could have got more for him. I also feel that at the time the contract was signed, we could have got less had he wanted to move to one of the big clubs before his contract expired, which is a fair assumption.

[BuckyRover]

He's the most expensive teenage defender ever.

Let's not big him up too much.

16/20m is fair. I would have liked more but I'm not sure we would have got too much more even without a clause.

[Bobby G]

To be fair, he is only worth this amount in the English domestic market so lets not fool ourselves. Anything over the clause amount is a relative victory for us even if they are based on honors and appearances, which will be gettable during his time there.

[Taggart]

He's the most expensive teenage defender ever.

Let's not big him up too much.

16/20m is fair. I would have liked more but I'm not sure we would have got too much more even without a clause.

completely agree

[Mattyblue]

16 million for a teenage centre half who has played a few dozen games? It is absolute crazy money, but in the insane market that exists for English talent he is obviously worth more.

[Stylish kid in the Riot]

I cannot believe the stick Venkys are getting here over Jones. I find it unbelievable!! We have the most coveted player in years and one of the best teams in the world want him and will no doubt end up signing him. They have offered what was in his contract, which no doubt his agent and the board at the time would have agreed on. Venkys are now questioning it and standing up to the bullies that Utd and Sir (what a joke that is by the way!!) Alex Ferguson are and insisting on more cash for Jones. Fair play to them for doing this.

Yes they havent always got things right but who on earth in football has??

Sorry if this has been mentioned before but does anyone actually know for sure why utd have agreed to pay extra on top of the £16million release clause?

[The Rover of Finland]

Of course it would have been nice too see Jones longer but isn´t it great thing that selling own academy product finances clubs transfers the way we haven´t seen in a decade. Not too confident about the way money will be spend though.

[hawkiiz]

If Venky's didn't have "a leg to stand on", then why would Utd splash out £4m more? Don't fool yourselves into believing they have so much money they can just give an extra £4m to anyone asking.

Giving the extra cash is United admitting Venky's are right. End of.

[rovers_rob]

I cannot believe the stick Venkys are getting here over Jones. I find it unbelievable!! We have the most coveted player in years and one of the best teams in the world want him and will no doubt end up signing him. They have offered what was in his contract, which no doubt his agent and the board at the time would have agreed on. Venkys are now questioning it and standing up to the bullies that Utd and Sir (what a joke that is by the way!!) Alex Ferguson are and insisting on more cash for Jones. Fair play to them for doing this.

Yes they havent always got things right but who on earth in football has??

Sorry if this has been mentioned before but does anyone actually know for sure why utd have agreed to pay extra on top of the £16million release clause?

This is in todays Lancs Telegraph :

Venkys are challenging the legality of the release clause after questioning how Man U were made aware of the exact details so they want an extra 4 million. If Venkys don't get the extra 4 million then they will launch a formal complaint of tapping up against Man U.

Depending on which paper you believe some are saying United will pay the extra 4 million, some are saying they won't.

[The Rover of Finland]

The fee could be undisclosed and leave several true stories out there.

[Mercer]

Most people gather that you are posting your opinion. That's the nature of a messageboard. This isn't a personal attack, it was just annoying to read a post which looked like it was written cowering behind your own self doubt.

Braddock - just making sure that it's expressed as my personal opinion in order to avoid any potential legal pitfalls such as libel.

[jim mk2]

This is in todays Lancs Telegraph :

Venkys are challenging the legality of the release clause after questioning how Man U were made aware of the exact details so they want an extra 4 million. If Venkys don't get the extra 4 million then they will launch a formal complaint of tapping up against Man U.

Depending on which paper you believe some are saying United will pay the extra 4 million, some are saying they won't.

Legally, Venky's don't have a case - and there is a precedent a few years ago (which went to court) over Christian Ziege's move from Middlesbrough to Liverpool.