[Archived] Planning Application / Demolition Application

[vintageadidas]

We would like to demolish an office block adjacent to St Wilfrids School.

The paper work was submitted a month ago but REFUSED by BWDC today. What right do they have to stop us?

Anybody know how we can get around this?

Any help is much appreciated. We are paying EXCESSIVE rates on an empty building!

I hate this country sometimes.

[Hughesy]

Why was it turned down?

And whats the plans to do with it once demolished?

[roversmum]

Have you spoken to the Planning Officer? He/she can offer advice about the refusal and what can be done.

[thenodrog]

We would like to demolish an office block adjacent to St Wilfrids School.

The paper work was submitted a month ago but REFUSED by BWDC today. What right do they have to stop us?

Anybody know how we can get around this?

Any help is much appreciated. We are paying EXCESSIVE rates on an empty building!

I hate this country sometimes.

Do what everybody else does. Go on holiday and get someone to torch it. Rem to tell em to park a way away though cos of security camera's.

Alternatively apply for change of use to..

a. maggot farm and make sure that Mr Whyte is fully informed.

b. Swingers club and ditto the above.

[cmb211087]

Just demolish it and then ask for planning permission, seemed to work for others

[jim mk2]

The paper work was submitted a month ago but REFUSED by BWDC today. What right do they have to stop us?

Anybody know how we can get around this?

Any help is much appreciated. We are paying EXCESSIVE rates on an empty building!

I hate this country sometimes.

You should have worked with the planning officers before you submitted your bid because they would have been able to tell you if you application was likely to be passed or refused. You now need to go back to the council and work with them so your application can be amended to their satisfaction and more likely to be passed next time. You are able to make one free application in the next 12 months and of course you can make as many applications as you like but they will cost you more money each time you apply. If the council continue to refuse permission you can always go to appeal which in my experience is more likely to work in your favour as planning inspectors come from outside the area and often decide against the wishes of the council.

It's not a perfect system but that's the way it works.

Good luck.

[colin]

Vintageadidas,

I'm not quite sure where you are coming from if you feel you need advice from brfcs.com. Perhaps you need to speak to a professional planner to see what the problem is with you demolishing a building. The only reason I can think of is that it is a listed building.

Perhaps the problem is what you may be planning to build in its stead.

I can only repeat Jim's advice and go back to BwD planners and actually ask them what the problem is with your plans for demolition (& potential replacement) and go with the flow.

I do know that "That Fat C**t" Eric Pickles, Secretary Of State For The Department Of Communities & Local Government, has been ripping up planning controls like a whirling dervish.

Go back to BwD planners and talk to them. See what the problem is.

All the best

Colin

[Ricky]

Take as much pre application advice as possible from the planning officers. Without knowing what you are proposing it's difficult to say why it was turned down. It may be a case of knocking down industrial units to build housing in an area outside of the settlement boundary. I don't know the details but your planning officer will tell you.

Speak to your local ward councillor as well. They can sometimes ask for applications to be referred to a planning committee where you can put your case to the elected members. If there are material planning considerations for them to divert awa from policy then you might get somewhere.

[vintageadidas]

Well this is part of a larger development by a property developer.

We own the building which is a 6,000 sq ft office block constructed in the late 90's

Behind the building just off king street / duckworth street is an old coal yard that is hopefully being turned into a retail park - and King Street really does need a facelift.

Our building is to be the access road during construction and a bus stop after completion, we were approached by the developer who offered us a very good deal to sell the building.

To speed up the process he asked if we could submit for the demolition certificate as that is one less thing for them to sort whilst they are submitting their large scale application.

However, the Council refused the application and stated it has to stay as office accomodation.

I posted on here just in case someone worked in that department.

[Al]

Appeal. My next door neighbour built a structure that blocked my view and was very imposing over my garden. I and some neighbours objected to it and the council told him to knock it down. He appealed and they sent some insect from Bristol and a lawyer representing my neighbour who decided it was OK. I was not allowed an argument as officially it was the council who were the objectors and not me.

Bloody ridiculous but it happens.

[thenodrog]

Well this is part of a larger development by a property developer.

We own the building which is a 6,000 sq ft office block constructed in the late 90's

Behind the building just off king street / duckworth street is an old coal yard that is hopefully being turned into a retail park - and King Street really does need a facelift.

Our building is to be the access road during construction and a bus stop after completion, we were approached by the developer who offered us a very good deal to sell the building.

To speed up the process he asked if we could submit for the demolition certificate as that is one less thing for them to sort whilst they are submitting their large scale application.

However, the Council refused the application and stated it has to stay as office accomodation.

I posted on here just in case someone worked in that department.

If it's knocked down will the council possibly be concerned about losing income from business rates?

An alternative suggestion is to approach the council and offer to build a childrens play area somewhere in the 'terraced' area of the town as a bribe of sorts. Then they'll let you do whatever you want. You'll be able to demolish any property you like, you'll be able to cut as many trees down as you like without any permission, you'll be able to build property some distance from the original planned site without having to re apply, you'll be able to disrupt and block off local roads with the most unreliable but low cost 'temporary' traffic light system for over 6 months without any fear of inconveniencing local residents and disrupting traffic flow and you'll be able to smear the road with mud on a daily basis.

Mind you it helps if you own a plethora of petrol stations and are so rich that the council will be too afraid to take you on in the courts. For an insight into what influence can be gained through a combination of politics, money and social standing just drive a few hundred yards up Billinge End Road in a westerly direction from Preston New Road.

[vintageadidas]

Know exactly what you are on about! I use that route on a regular basis!

Saying that cpuk are a reputable company and they seem to have been on site for what seems forever!

It's who you know, not what you know! We know some very well connected people but just not in the LA.

[jim mk2]

Appeal. My next door neighbour built a structure that blocked my view and was very imposing over my garden. I and some neighbours objected to it and the council told him to knock it down. He appealed and they sent some insect from Bristol and a lawyer representing my neighbour who decided it was OK. I was not allowed an argument as officially it was the council who were the objectors and not me.

Bloody ridiculous but it happens.

Same story.

District council turned down a planning application only for the decision to be overturned on appeal by an inspector from Bristol. I think the planning system is a nonsense when the decisions of professional planners and the multiple objections of councils and residents are ignored by one man with no connections to the area. And of course his decision is final - objectors cannot appeal against the appeal. So much for democracy.

My advice to vintageadidas if he gets no joy from the council would be to go to appeal - and slip the inspector a backhander like everyone else seems to do..

[Paul]

To speed up the process he asked if we could submit for the demolition certificate as that is one less thing for them to sort whilst they are submitting their large scale application.

To me that is a strange request. The developer presumably has a team of people employed to put the whole project together and obtain all the necessary permissions. That's just an observation.

What you need is a planning consultant working on your behalf. These people are usually ex planning officers who have moved into the private sector and understand precisely how the system works.

As a private householder my experience is the planning officer will not, despite comments above, advise on what is acceptable as to do so is outside their remit and could also lead to difficulties if your application was turned down after including the advice.

[Alan75]

Well this is part of a larger development by a property developer.

Our building is to be the access road during construction and a bus stop after completion, we were approached by the developer who offered us a very good deal to sell the building.

To speed up the process he asked if we could submit for the demolition certificate as that is one less thing for them to sort whilst they are submitting their large scale application.However, the Council refused the application and stated it has to stay as office accomodation.

I posted on here just in case someone worked in that department.

Would agree with Paul, that sounds strange.

The site access and future bus stop must be part of their scheme, therefore it would be the developers responsibility to include the proposal within their planning application.

As an observation, if demolision was granted, would the site not be devalued as it could only be classified as a vacant plot.

If the council want offices retained, it could be incorrporated within the developers scheme.

(With so many vacant offices about the need for more seems daft)

[jim mk2]

Contrary to the misinformed comment above, in my experience planning officers are usually very helpful with regards to what they may or may not approve. There is no guarantee of course that they will decide in your favour but my advice would be to work closely with them - there is certainly no need at this stage to get the private sector involved with its bloated expenses and costs

[Paul]

Jim can I just point out I said "in my experience" and as such it is not misinformed comment it is my personal experience with Chorley planning.

It may well be different in your borough and others but it is not the case in Chorley.

[colin]

District council turned down a planning application only for the decision to be overturned on appeal by an inspector from Bristol. I think the planning system is a nonsense when the decisions of professional planners and the multiple objections of councils and residents are ignored by one man with no connections to the area. And of course his decision is final - objectors cannot appeal against the appeal. So much for democracy.

My advice to vintageadidas if he gets no joy from the council would be to go to appeal - and slip the inspector a backhander like everyone else seems to do..

Jim,

First off, no-one slips a Planning Inspector a "back-hander" and gets away with it. You make them sound like some banana-republic passport office officials. They are experienced planning officials who would take the offer of a back-hander like being offerd a dog-turd sandwich on a plate.

Second, only applicants who have been refused planning permision by the Local Planning Authority have the right to appeal to The Planning Inspectorate who then hold a public inquiry. As the costs are generally substantial it is quite often that it is certain supermarkets, and other big businesses who like to challenge Local Planning Authority decisions.

Third, a planning inspector is independant and thus, by his or her very nature, will have no connection with the area in question, and the various parties involved. Which seems right & fair to me.

Four, there is a very long-standing convention that central government allows local planning authorities the power to decide on planning applications with minimal applcation from central government. Whether or not Fat Eric Pickles can keep his suasage-like fingers out or that particular pot remains to be seen. Apparantly Fat Eric has about 120 interventions lined up for him to intervene if he feels there are not enough lard-rendering shops.

[jim mk2]

First off, no-one slips a Planning Inspector a "back-hander" and gets away with it. You make them sound like some banana-republic passport office officials. They are experienced planning officials who would take the offer of a back-hander like being offerd a dog-turd sandwich on a plate.

Second, only applicants who have been refused planning permision by the Local Planning Authority have the right to appeal to The Planning Inspectorate who then hold a public inquiry. As the costs are generally substantial it is quite often that it is certain supermarkets, and other big businesses who like to challenge Local Planning Authority decisions.

Third, a planning inspector is independant and thus, by his or her very nature, will have no connection with the area in question, and the various parties involved. Which seems right & fair to me.

Four, there is a very long-standing convention that central government allows local planning authorities the power to decide on planning applications with minimal applcation from central government. Whether or not Fat Eric Pickles can keep his suasage-like fingers out or that particular pot remains to be seen. Apparantly Fat Eric has about 120 interventions lined up for him to intervene if he feels there are not enough lard-rendering shops.

First, there is a very influential farming family locally who have managed to blight the landscape with various distribution depots. They have also gained planning permission for other buildings and developments that are also, shall we say, very questionable. If you don't believe that "sweeteners" take place behind closed doors you are very naive in the extreme.

Second, your first sentence repeats what I have already said. I appreciate there are costs with a public inquiry but ordinary folk (our next-door neighbours) use the appeal system as well as big business. It is another failure of the planning system that local authorities often cite the cost of the appeal system as a reason for waving planning permission through when there are good grounds for refusal.

Third, see my answer to your first point. Planning is an opaque and complicated process that is open to abuse andi inspectors can be "persuaded" to make the right decision. The system is not squeaky-clean.

Fourth, Pickles is the worst kind of Tory, and a Yorkshireman to boot. Hopefully, he will go on holiday to Germany this summer and eat lots of cucumbers.

[SouthAussieRover]

Beansprouts rather than cucumbers.

[ABBEY]

Same story.

My advice to vintageadidas if he gets no joy from the council would be to go to appeal - and slip the inspector a backhander like everyone else seems to do..

So the answer to your question in my case is b. And no, I have never broken a law in my life.

so lets have this right its ok to break some laws but not others? or is it do as I say and not as i do? amazing what "search-magoo" comes up with .

If you don't believe that "sweeteners" take place behind closed doors you are very naive in the extreme.

Fourth, Pickles is the worst kind of Tory, and a Yorkshireman to boot. Hopefully, he will go on holiday to Germany this summer and eat lots of cucumbers.

re."sweetners"...why is there no outrage at the illegallities? oh forgot you pick and choose which laws are ok and which are not.

re."yorkshire and cucucumbers".....how is this different from say hoping asians die(not saying i do before it gets twisted just an eg).Or aussies(another of jim's im not racist )but i hate aussies and hope yorkshire men die.

Glenn,whats your view of yorkshire men being sent to germany to eat poisoned cucucumber(he cant get that right either ,what a beansprout?

[ABBEY]

ANOTHER FAMOUS JIM IGNORE LOL

[Kelbo]

I always find a mate who is a councillor when I have problems of that kind, they lobby their party and anyone else they can and can overturn the Planning Dept.

[colin]

url="http://www.lgo.org.uk/"]here[/url]

First, there is a very influential farming family locally who have managed to blight the landscape with various distribution depots. They have also gained planning permission for other buildings and developments that are also, shall we say, very questionable. If you don't believe that "sweeteners" take place behind closed doors you are very naive in the extreme.

Jim,

I'm not disagreeing that there may be some greasing of palms in local planning authorities, this would have to take place between the applicants & the Local Councillors rather than the planning officers. I'm not au-fait with the developments you mention, but if they were in line with the Local Development Plan for BwD then they would get the nod.

For example, if the application was for housing on an area previously used for housing then there would be no problem. Similarly if development was on a "brown field" site (ie previously developed) then there shouldn't be much problem.

BTW if you know (rather than have a suspicion) that "sweetners" are involved, then you probably need to contact The Local Government Ombudsman.

But then again, Fat Eric Pickles is about to get rid of Local Development Plans, so any blighter can apply to build a slaughterhouse & tannery wherever they want.

[thenodrog]

First, there is a very influential farming family locally who have managed to blight the landscape with various distribution depots. They have also gained planning permission for other buildings and developments that are also, shall we say, very questionable. If you don't believe that "sweeteners" take place behind closed doors you are very naive in the extreme.

Second, your first sentence repeats what I have already said. I appreciate there are costs with a public inquiry but ordinary folk (our next-door neighbours) use the appeal system as well as big business. It is another failure of the planning system that local authorities often cite the cost of the appeal system as a reason for waving planning permission through when there are good grounds for refusal.

Third, see my answer to your first point. Planning is an opaque and complicated process that is open to abuse andi inspectors can be "persuaded" to make the right decision. The system is not squeaky-clean.

Fourth, Pickles is the worst kind of Tory, and a Yorkshireman to boot. Hopefully, he will go on holiday to Germany this summer and eat lots of cucumbers.

Very bitter as usual. Why don't you join the Masons? It seems to work for many.

url="http://www.lgo.org.uk/"]here[/url]

But then again, Fat Eric Pickles is about to get rid of Local Development Plans, so any blighter can apply to build a slaughterhouse & tannery wherever they want.

Bit unfair, very immature and very churlish to carry on with that 'Fat' business, unless you yourself are a perfect physical specimen Colin. Are you?