[Archived] Other premier league 2011-12

[braddock]

I didn't know where to put this question, but which clubs owe us money? I heard Villa owed us some still. Just wondering.

[philipl]

Villas-Boas the new Chelsea manager apparently.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Villas-Boas the new Chelsea manager apparently.

Jose mk2.

He would be a great manager for Chelsea, though he will face a tough battle at times with Roman being as controlling as he is.

[67splitscreen]

Sanchez released by Chille to sign for Barca, wonder if they have come to a agreement with City and they get Villa.

[ABBEY]

Owd whisky nose odds have plummeted from 40-1 to 12-1 according to William hill has next prem manager to go.Kean 3-1f.

[Stuart]

Owd whisky nose odds have plummeted from 40-1 to 12-1 according to William hill has next prem manager to go.Kean 3-1f.

Which whiskey nose is this, Abbs?

I would have thought Bruce's position would have been less secure than Kean as well.

[G Somerset Rover]

With Villas-Boas joining Chelsea and Big Eck Villa just what is Hughes going to do?!

[philipl]

Chelsea have just said they expect to make the managerial announcement in the next few days.

[thenodrog]

The answer to that question doesn't leap out at me. So I guess that puts your point into question.

It will in due course.

[thenodrog]

Nah, I think he's on the 'we got just about the correct market value for Jones' team. Any Henderson/ Carroll responses will fall on deaf ears, because those clubs got more than the market value for those players. Why? Largely because the club buying are mugs, and Man United aren't.

They've dropped their share of expensive ###### in the transfer market. Consider these flops....

Massimo Taibi

Juan Sebastian Veron

Diego Forlan

Kléberson

Djemba-Djemba

Fabien Barthez

David Bellion

Alan Smith

Liam Miller

Obertan

[thenodrog]

Pretty strong worded statement from Levy, suggests he won't be sold?

It probably means that he won't be sold cheaply. Just a typical tough talking opening gambit, Everton are good at it too. On the other hand without the experience and stature of the likes of Hughes, Willams and Allardyce we are babes in the wood.

[imy9]

It probably means that he won't be sold cheaply. Just a typical tough talking opening gambit, Everton are good at it too. On the other hand without the experience and stature of the likes of Hughes, Willams and Allardyce we are babes in the wood.

We sold Bentley for £15 million with Arsenal receiving 50% of that fee.

We sold RSC for £17.5 million with Munich getting 20% of that fee.

We bought Bellamy for about £5 million, scores a ton of goals and we sell for... £6.5 million (another clause)

Do you see a pattern here? Tough negotiators...

Whereas we got £20 million plus a 20% sell on from PJ (someone who is not an international player with 30 odd PL games), I dont recall us inserting a clause in any other top player that we have sold like this, perhaps the quality of negotiators just got better...

[modes98]

Whereas we got £20 million plus a 20% sell on from PJ (someone who is not an international player with 30 odd PL games), I dont recall us inserting a clause in any other top player that we have sold like this, perhaps the quality of negotiators just got better...

It's not always the case that you can insert a clause or there is any value in doing so. Who would we have made any money from? Majority of those we have sold on have done not very much and haven't fetched large fees. In comparsion we have picked up players on the cheap, or who wouldn't have come to the club, but have had to insert a clause.

Swings and Roundabouts but we have still done very well.

[imy9]

It's not always the case that you can insert a clause or there is any value in doing so. Who would we have made any money from? Majority of those we have sold on have done not very much and haven't fetched large fees. In comparsion we have picked up players on the cheap, or who wouldn't have come to the club, but have had to insert a clause.

Swings and Roundabouts but we have still done very well.

I find it shocking that we have Bentley, RSC, Bellamy- three of our top players being sold for amounts that have not benefitted our club. 8 million pounds for Bentley is woefully short when we sold him for double, Bellamy was worth at least 12 million- an amount he subsequently went for and RSC was talked about alongside Torres in the goal scoring stakes so again to give a sizeable chunk of the profits to Bayern is depressing. Rumour has it that Samba has a clause meaning we need to give money to Hertha... At least with PJ we got a big fee, got to keep it and inserted a clause to ensure we get more money.

[S15]

They've dropped their share of expensive ###### in the transfer market. Consider these flops....

Massimo Taibi

Juan Sebastian Veron

Diego Forlan

Kléberson

Djemba-Djemba

Fabien Barthez

David Bellion

Alan Smith

Liam Miller

Obertan

How long has Ferguson been in charge? I'd argue about Barthez, he was good value for couple of years at £7m. Not many were arguing with Veron at the time, and Forlan is worth more than double what United paid for him; it just didn't work out for him there.

You've certainly not counteracted my statement of 'United are no mugs.'

[thenodrog]

I find it shocking that we have Bentley, RSC, Bellamy- three of our top players being sold for amounts that have not benefitted our club. 8 million pounds for Bentley is woefully short when we sold him for double, Bellamy was worth at least 12 million- an amount he subsequently went for and RSC was talked about alongside Torres in the goal scoring stakes so again to give a sizeable chunk of the profits to Bayern is depressing. Rumour has it that Samba has a clause meaning we need to give money to Hertha... At least with PJ we got a big fee, got to keep it and inserted a clause to ensure we get more money.

We got Bentley on the cheap cos Arsenal insisted on the clause. He cost us 1m and we sold him for 8. Good business in my book. I doubt he's worth half that 8 million now anyway.

Bellamy/agent insisted that the clause was in place when he signed. Good tactic by him cos I'd wager that he'd have received a hefty signing on fee as a result. In return we got his wage back and a sackful of goals. More good business.

We stitched City with RSC big time. His knees were shot when he came to us for 3.5m. He's been a massive disappointment for them and is another like Bentley who is worth way way less than we got for him.

By any judgement that was good business too.

btw Just goes to illustrate how good Hughesy was with little money and how bad he was with a fistful. Some managers are like that. Rather ironic that his reason for leaving has exposed his Achilles Heel.

How long has Ferguson been in charge? I'd argue about Barthez, he was good value for couple of years at £7m. Not many were arguing with Veron at the time, and Forlan is worth more than double what United paid for him; it just didn't work out for him there.

You've certainly not counteracted my statement of 'United are no mugs.'

Then there is no hope with you.

[S15]

Then there is no hope with you.

So, are Man Utd and their manager mugs in the transfer market? I say no, you say...

[K-Hod]

Of course it stands to reason that SAF would have made transfer faux pas at Manure, though he has been there 24 years!!

Veron was good in the UCL from what I recall, it just didn't work out for him in this country. The same applies to Forlan, can hardly say his career has been a failure can it?

[braddock]

btw Just goes to illustrate how good Hughesy was with little money and how bad he was with a fistful. Some managers are like that. Rather ironic that his reason for leaving has exposed his Achilles Heel.

You may be correct, but I don't know if Hughes is actually bad when it comes to the big money. He was seeing players brought in over his head, whilst also trying to bring in his own players, some of them possibly out of spite because of the ridiculous position he was in. I'd be interested to see how he would perform in a more 'normal' environment with more dosh.

[imy9]

We got Bentley on the cheap cos Arsenal insisted on the clause. He cost us 1m and we sold him for 8. Good business in my book. I doubt he's worth half that 8 million now anyway.

Bellamy/agent insisted that the clause was in place when he signed. Good tactic by him cos I'd wager that he'd have received a hefty signing on fee as a result. In return we got his wage back and a sackful of goals. More good business.

We stitched City with RSC big time. His knees were shot when he came to us for 3.5m. He's been a massive disappointment for them and is another like Bentley who is worth way way less than we got for him.

By any judgement that was good business too.

btw Just goes to illustrate how good Hughesy was with little money and how bad he was with a fistful. Some managers are like that. Rather ironic that his reason for leaving has exposed his Achilles Heel.

Then there is no hope with you.

Theno the argument was that we were excellent negotiators- my point is that we were clearly not as we kept agreeing to clauses in players in contracts and suffered for it.

Bentley was the best right sided English player in the PL and was a dead cert for England in that position had he not lost his way at Spurs- was worth every penny of that £15 million- we got the same amount as Arsenal, now who seems like the better in negotiations Arsenal or us?

Same with Bellamy, whoever is his agent deserves a massive pat on the back as the release clause was only negotiated with us and with no other club!!

Our new negotiators on the otherhand seem tougher, squeezing £20 million out of United AND including a sell on clause, have we ever done this with one of our top players before?

[thenodrog]

Of course it stands to reason that SAF would have made transfer faux pas at Manure, though he has been there 24 years!!

Veron was good in the UCL from what I recall, it just didn't work out for him in this country. The same applies to Forlan, can hardly say his career has been a failure can it?

Depends what you class as a failure.

Veron? MU paid just under 30m for him and blew 15m when they sold him to Chelsea (who in turn blew the rest by sending him out on loan until his contract was up.)

As for Forlan they must have taken a big hit too cos his sell on value was 'undisclosed'.

A loss on the pair to a value of approx 20m. Now I'd call that a failure if it was my money ... what would you call it?

[K-Hod]

Depends what you class as a failure.

Veron? MU paid just under 30m for him and blew 15m when they sold him to Chelsea (who in turn blew the rest by sending him out on loan until his contract was up.)

As for Forlan they must have taken a big hit too cos his sell on value was 'undisclosed'.

A loss on the pair to a value of approx 20m. Now I'd call that a failure if it was my money ... what would you call it?

Yep, see my original point that you quoted about making transfer faux pas! It certainly does represent a failure financially, but these are isolated incidents in the main, when you take into account all of his financial dealings over 24 years. Still, clearly nobody's perfect!

[thenodrog]

Theno the argument was that we were excellent negotiators- my point is that we were clearly not as we kept agreeing to clauses in players in contracts and suffered for it.

Bentley was the best right sided English player in the PL and was a dead cert for England in that position had he not lost his way at Spurs- was worth every penny of that £15 million- we got the same amount as Arsenal, now who seems like the better in negotiations Arsenal or us?

1M TURNED INTO 8M IS A GOOD DEAL. ESPECIALLY AS HE WAS MOST DEFINITELY NOT THE BEST RW IN ENGLAND WHEN HE TURNED UP.... HE'D BEEN LOANED OUT TO NORWICH FOR GOODNESS SAKE! DO YOU REALLY THINK ARSENAL WOULD HAVE SOLD THE BEST WINGER IN ENGLAND FOR 1M? DO YOU EVEN THINK THE BEST RW IN ENGLAND WOULD HAVE SIGNED FOR US?

Same with Bellamy, whoever is his agent deserves a massive pat on the back as the release clause was only negotiated with us and with no other club!!

THATS VIRTUALLY WHAT I SAID.

Our new negotiators on the otherhand seem tougher, squeezing £20 million out of United AND including a sell on clause, have we ever done this with one of our top players before?

DUNNO. BUT I THINK WE'VE DONE IT WITH SOME OF OUR LESSER SALES.

[imy9]

I agree with some of what you said Theno, but Arsenal obviously thought he could be a top player otherwise why put in a 50% sell on- great deal for them.

Do you not think that Rovers have negotiated well in Jones deal, compared with previous ones?

[S15]

Hey drog, did my question slip past your normally flawless vision?