[Archived] Anyone else tired of Pele bashing Messi?

[AmazinTim]

Pele came out again and ripped into Leo Messi in an interview the other day, article here: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/930008/pele:-lionel-messi-must-score-as-many-as-me?cc=5901

His argument is that Messi needs to score 1283 goals like he did to be considered a better player. He doesn't consider the fact that every week Messi is playing better football at a higher level against MUCH stronger opposition than Pele ever did. I kind of think this goal argument is ridiculous for a few reasons,

1 - There is no true number to the amount of goals he scored because he counts every goal in every friendly and pickup game he ever played (wikipedia says 1087 and that's still a guess)

2 - The goals he did score were in the Brazilian league, not Spain or Champions League.

3 - The game was a lot easier back then, defenders weren't as smart as they are today and players who were the least bit clever paid dividends.

Messi has been the best player on the planet, period, for the last 3 seasons. Why does Pele feel the need to come out and put him down every chance he gets? Is it because deep down he knows he was never as good a player as Messi is now at only 23?

I'm kind of tired of this weak old man coming out every few months and pleading with the world to remember the made up number of goals he boasts about, and, in the process, putting down a player who is more talented than Pele ever was.

[WarWand]

think he's too jacked up on viagra to know whats going on tbh (pele that is)

[AspRover]

Its a different game though - you'd have to argue whether Pele in his prime could have the same impact in the current Barcalona team, or whether Messi could have survived in a game performing his magic with a thunking great leather ball (and a much more relaxed attitude to tackling).

Both geniuses, and very hard to compare the two.

However, I don't think that anyone is going to forget Pele, or start to slag off his abilities in a kind of 'sod that old git, check out this wonderkid' kind of way, so you do wonder what he's thinking...

(also, assuming that the Brazilian/Spanish leagues of the time were of the same relative strength as they are now is a mistake - Some of the South American teams back then were proper, proper sides.)

[bluebruce]

Is it because deep down he knows he was never as good a player as Messi is now at only 23?

I'm kind of tired of this weak old man coming out every few months and pleading with the world to remember the made up number of goals he boasts about, and, in the process, putting down a player who is more talented than Pele ever was.

I think these are incredibly disrespectful and misguided comments. Asprover has pointed out most of the reasons.

[S15]

To directly answer the title of the thread; No. I really couldn't give two ######.

[dopper69]

Pele good,

Maradona better,

George Best

[Billy Castell]

I believe one of Brazil's world cup winning coaches, possibly Scolari, has once said 'whatever Pele says should happen to the Brazilian team, I do the opposite.' As a player, Pele was truely brilliant. As a pundit, coach or whatever, he's been crap. He hasn't a clue about the game beyond his playing days.

[ada2020]

Pele good,

Maradona cheating scum

George Best

Corrected for you, doesn't deserve to be mentioned alongside those names.

[AspRover]

Corrected for you, doesn't deserve to be mentioned alongside those names.

Nadgers.

People get so hung up on the 'hand of god' thing that they ignore the other goal he scored in that game. You know. The one where he dribbles round our entire team as our players are left on their backsides after desperately trying (and failing) to foul him because they couldn't do anything else.

He might be a druggie and a ###### but the guy could play football.

[ada2020]

Nadgers.

People get so hung up on the 'hand of god' thing that they ignore the other goal he scored in that game. You know. The one where he dribbles round our entire team as our players are left on their backsides after desperately trying (and failing) to foul him because they couldn't do anything else.

He might be a druggie and a ###### but the guy could play football.

Your right I do ignore his other goal, no offence but how old are you?

Just asking as I was ten when that punk screwed us in the world cup, if your younger its probably easier to ignore what he did.

I just cannot forgive him and could never put him alongisde the others mentioned, I was very concerned when he was linked with a role at Rovers.

His other goal was reasonable, however dribbleing round lumps like Buthcer and Fenwick was hardly a major ask, and im pretty sure one of them could have kicked the little **** in the air.

Mind you, it still beggers belief that he managed to beat Shilton to the ball!!!

I have a major issue with his status as one of the games greats, its childish I know but I just cannot get round what he did, just a personal thing.

Messi is head and shoulders above him.

As for Pele, I think others have covered that, and for me its a generation thing, hasn't Pele had an issue with every other great (or so called great in Maradona's case) thats come along since him?

[colin]

His other goal was reasonable,

You are a truely generous fellow.

But, if truth be told, Maradonna's second goal was not "reasonable", it was the work of a football genius.

Here you go ouch

[S15]

Your right I do ignore his other goal, no offence but how old are you?

Just asking as I was ten when that punk screwed us in the world cup, if your younger its probably easier to ignore what he did.

I just cannot forgive him and could never put him alongisde the others mentioned, I was very concerned when he was linked with a role at Rovers.

His other goal was reasonable, however dribbleing round lumps like Buthcer and Fenwick was hardly a major ask, and im pretty sure one of them could have kicked the little **** in the air.

Mind you, it still beggers belief that he managed to beat Shilton to the ball!!!

I have a major issue with his status as one of the games greats, its childish I know but I just cannot get round what he did, just a personal thing.

Messi is head and shoulders above him.

As for Pele, I think others have covered that, and for me its a generation thing, hasn't Pele had an issue with every other great (or so called great in Maradona's case) thats come along since him?

How old are you?! Fair amount of nonsense in that post.

[ABBEY]

What a waste of brfcs web space this thead is.bring back the otters.

[beerwins]

You are a truely generous fellow.

But, if truth be told, Maradonna's second goal was not "reasonable", it was the work of a football genius.

Here you go ouch

Own goal was'nt it?

[MarkBRFC71]

How old are you?! Fair amount of nonsense in that post.

Pretty much all nonsense IMO.

Maradona was the best player I've ever seen, and Messi (who is the best player since Diego by miles IMO) still has some way to go to eclipse him.

Maradona dragged a very average Napoli side to the Scudetto, and an average Argentinian side to 2 WC finals (winning one) almost single handedly. Messi is playing in probably the best club side ever, alongside two of the greatest midfielders of the last 30 years in Xavi and Iniesta. Messi needs to win the World Cup - a tournament where surrounded by lesser quality players than at club level he's not looked anywhere near as effective.

Did Maradona cheat against England? Undoubtedly. Did it hurt like hell at the time? Absolutely. Did he end up a drug-addled crackpot in the latter stages of his career? Certainly. Notwithstanding that, and taking into account that I never saw Pele play I'm still of the opinion that Maradona was the best ever - so far.

[S15]

What a waste of brfcs web space this thead is.bring back the otters.

You'd know all about that wouldn't you. No more threads about how you forgot the Grand Prix was on?

[BRFC4EVA]

Maybe its just Pele way of getting a little revenge for the all the nonsense he has had to put up with regards to Maradona. As Messi is meant to be the new Maradona, then it could be just an underhand way at getting back at him. To be fair-I think Messi has a little way to go on a national stage to surpass either player - Pele was scoring goals in the World Cup final when Messi had barely broken into (albeit an excellent) Barcelona team.

[AspRover]

Your right I do ignore his other goal, no offence but how old are you?

Admittedly slightly too young to really remember it. At the same time I don't want to be lumped in with the 'Nickoteens'.

I try not to hold grudges against football players though, it's not like you'll ever be able to do anything about it.

[Hasta]

To be honest it is no contest.

[Rovermatt]

I'm perfectly willing to accept that Pele is the greatest player that's ever lived. I will bow to the opinions of older, wiser and more experienced football-watchers than myself. That said, Pele's legend was, for the most part, built around his presence in a Brazilian national side that revolutionised the way in which football was played and thought about. In 1958, he was the precocious teenager who wrought havoc against teams and defenders playing football from the dark ages. In 1970 he was the king in the finest international side that's ever been assembled, bringing football to a new level. They swept all before them and destroyed the Italians, the cynical old villains of the European game.

His domestic performances are far harder to judge. If he had graced European football (and specifically the European Cup), there's no doubt that he would have stamped his authority all over it. Instead he stayed at Santos, a respectable institution no doubt, but one which competed in a league that could not have compared to the hothouses of Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal, or England. Pele, while gifted enough no doubt to have succeeded against any domestic opposition, was surely playing against teams and players dwarfed by his ludicrous talent. That is not to say that he was so superior to already gifted players as to render the point moot, rather these were players who would struggle against Jason Roberts on one of his more erratic afternoons. It may sport some of the world's best defenders now but Brazilian football in the 60s and 70s can hardly have been described as a breeding ground for the game's great defensive players. As far as Pele was concerned it must have been like shooting fish in a barrel.

Messi plays week in, week out against better defenders. Yes, many of them are probably pretty mediocre given the growing talent disparity in Spain, but they are undoubtedly stronger, quicker, fitter and more powerful than anything Pele would have had to face in the depths of the Brazilian league. Messi makes these guys look like utter chumps, in every single game. Most startling then is the fact that he can transfer this kind of jaw-dropping performance to the Champions League without even a hint of difficulty. His performance in the Champions League final, against two of Europe's leading central defenders, was simply stunning.

I'm not going to doubt Pele's legacy but he should simply shut up and enjoy watching another genius at work.

[ABBEY]

Shil you can't even get basic facts right ffs..it was cricket and I didn't forget I didn't know it had restarted after the rain and England won the test. So if

you want to take the ###### make sure your right in the first place there's a good boy.

[LeChuck]

I think Pele is right about one thing - Messi has to make his mark on international football before he can be considered alongside the all-time greats. The next World Cup will be huge for him, that will be his last chance to play in the tournament in peak physical condition. After that age will probably have stolen some of his pace and agility.

[Rovermatt]

I think Pele is right about one thing - Messi has to make his mark on international football before he can be considered alongside the all-time greats. The next World Cup will be huge for him, that will be his last chance to play in the tournament in peak physical condition. After that age will probably have stolen some of his pace and agility.

Indeed, in 2006 he was used (too) sparingly. Last summer, he had the hopes of the team resting on his shoulders and he was surrounded, as he is at the Camp Nou, by an outrageous collection of talent (even taking into account some of Maradona's silly omissions) yet he was subject to the whim and pride of a coach who was in it for himself; without a plan, without tactics and without a clear vision of how to harness the world's finest player.

[S15]

Shil you can't even get basic facts right ffs..it was cricket and I didn't forget I didn't know it had restarted after the rain and England won the test. So if

you want to take the ###### make sure your right in the first place there's a good boy.

It was still a waste of time and space, as a few of us would and did concur.

I kind of agree with your sentiments on this thread, but people in glass houses and all that.

[ABBEY]

Like writing backwards wasn't a waste of space.