T.v.

[J*B]

Whilst waiting for Suits, Dexter and Breaking Bad to return I've been watching Lie to Me. Still on the first series but really enjoy it.

Slight problem is I now consider myself a psychological expert and look for facial expressions and reactions showing someone is lying. It becomes even more of a problem, because I'm not 100% sure the show is entirely correct in what it states as "fact"

Edited May 30, 2013 by J*B

[MarkBRFC71]

Last night's Game Of Thrones. Wow .... just wow. Having not (yet) read the books I never saw THAT coming - took me a good 30 mins to digest it properly afterwards!

Outstanding stuff - easily the best thing on TV by a country mile for me.

[Majiball]

Last night's Game Of Thrones. Wow .... just wow. Having not (yet) read the books I never saw THAT coming - took me a good 30 mins to digest it properly afterwards! Outstanding stuff - easily the best thing on TV by a country mile for me.

Aye it was certainly a surprise and a brutal one at that, the red wedding. It promoted me to have a read of all the books plotlines and there's even better to come. Can't wait for next weeks monday breakfast viewing.

[Steve Moss]

Game Of Thrones is outstanding television.

[Majiball]

Game Of Thrones is outstanding television.

i am curious to know what's going to happen as it progresses. The book series author seems to take about 5 years to write one novel and he still has two to go to finish the storyline. I wonder if he'll get finished in time for the TV series.

[Amo]

Stopped watching it awhile back when they decided to write shoddy fanfiction instead of respecting the source material.

[T.J.Newton]

Stopped watching it awhile back when they decided to write shoddy fanfiction instead of respecting the source material.

I've never read the books, but from what I've heard they're not really of a high literary standard, but they have made for a good rich source of material and blue print for an outstanding tv show.

Last night's Game Of Thrones. Wow .... just wow. Having not (yet) read the books I never saw THAT coming - took me a good 30 mins to digest it properly afterwards! Outstanding stuff - easily the best thing on TV by a country mile for me.

this was my situation and reaction as well, gobsmacked.

I'd personally still put breaking bad slightly ahead of it as the best show on tv(ever-ish!) as its a truly original show that shocks and surprises on a weekly basis and the dialogue is also of a much higher standard than that of thrones, but then you also have mad men and homeland(+ a few others) that both also great, so I guess it just has to come down to personal preference.

Edited June 4, 2013 by T.J.Newton

[Amo]

I've never read the books, but from what I've heard they're not really of a high literary standard, but they have made for a good rich source of material and blue print for an outstanding tv show.

What do you define as "high literary standard"?

Season 1 was outstanding television, because it remained faithful to the books. Everything after it has been a complete mess, but I guess if you haven't read the series you don't know any better.

[T.J.Newton]

No, I haven't read any of the books and know nothing of how the story unfolds in them, so my perception of the show is much more enjoyable and less biased the yours.

and I meant there supposed to be pretty averagely written, R.R.Martin isn't exactly in the same league as J.R.R. Tolkien(but then who is I suppose)

Edited June 4, 2013 by T.J.Newton

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Has anyone seen Oz?

I'm almost finished The Wire and I'm gonna need something new.

[Steve Moss]

i am curious to know what's going to happen as it progresses. The book series author seems to take about 5 years to write one novel and he still has two to go to finish the storyline. I wonder if he'll get finished in time for the TV series.

The HBO series has departed from the book series in some ways, but it has kept the themes and high (and low) points intact. Which I think is wise, as the novels have done remarkably well for a reason. The Red Wedding is a case in point. Other than the identity and background of Robb's Queen, it was true to the novels. And the discrepancies with Robb's Queen is not an important issue, as GRRM essentially wrote her out of the novels (per Jaime's viewpoint) so her TV fate changes nothing of significance.

As to GRRM completing the novel series before the book series, I think he will for three reasons. First, some of the books (such as Storm of Swords) is actually being broken in two which creates a bit of a buffer. Second, GRRM is completely finished with 25% of the next book (edits and all) and is rumored to be well into the balance of the book. GRRM is one of those writers who spent an inordinate amount of time working his way through plot points (such as the "Meereneese Knot") followed by completing hundreds of pages in an incredibly short period. Third (and last) GRRM strikes me as incredibly money oriented (and there is nothing wrong with that) and I suspect the HBO series is very lucrative for him. He'll find a way to ensure everything is complete before the television show.

And for the record, I'm a fan of the Jon, Arya and Tyrion character arcs. To date, the show has been very faithful to these three characters.

[RibbleValleyRover]

I think the problem with Game of Thrones is that you feel there is so much potential for so much more to come from the series. As like previous seasons I found it a bit slow and found the constant switching between characters to be annoying at times. Also unless you have read the books (I haven't) it can be difficult to follow some of the characters, sometimes you sit there and think "Did I get your name? Who are you exactly? What faction do you belong to?" etc.

But the series is still one of the best things on TV and they pull out this really dramatic, stunning moment every now and again that will keep you interested especially towards the end of a season.

I know people who have read most of his books and consider his earlier works which were in Science Fiction and Horror to be superior pieces of literature to his "A Song of Ice and Fire" series. For example Fevre Dream is considered to be a classic in it's genre and regarded by many as his best piece of work.

Edited June 5, 2013 by RibbleValleyRover

[Amo]

And for the record, I'm a fan of the Jon, Arya and Tyrion character arcs. To date, the show has been very faithful to these three characters.

Tyrion is a much greyer character in the books, but in the show they've practically gutted anything morally questionable about Peter Dinklage's role and painted him as a saint.

Jon is supposed to be a capable young warrior and a born leader. In S2 he spent most of his time getting punked by his elders for being a moron and ending up the butt of several virgin/wang jokes with Ygritte. And his connection with Ghost is nonexistent.

Arya is probably the most accurate of the three, but even a lot of her character development in Harrenhal was toned down. What was supposed to be her personal hell turned into tea and crumpets with her new bff Tywin Lannister.

[K-Hod]

Has anyone seen Oz?

I'm almost finished The Wire and I'm gonna need something new.

Yes, amazing stuff. I watched The Wire first, then went back and watched Oz. You won't be disappointed.

Many characters from The Wire were in OZ first also.

[Majiball]

What do you define as "high literary standard"?

Season 1 was outstanding television, because it remained faithful to the books. Everything after it has been a complete mess, but I guess if you haven't read the series you don't know any better.

This is always one of my pet hates, just like lord of the rings and the way they left out the shire at the end. That was the whole point of their journey.

The HBO series has departed from the book series in some ways, but it has kept the themes and high (and low) points intact. Which I think is wise, as the novels have done remarkably well for a reason. The Red Wedding is a case in point. Other than the identity and background of Robb's Queen, it was true to the novels. And the discrepancies with Robb's Queen is not an important issue, as GRRM essentially wrote her out of the novels (per Jaime's viewpoint) so her TV fate changes nothing of significance.

As to GRRM completing the novel series before the book series, I think he will for three reasons. First, some of the books (such as Storm of Swords) is actually being broken in two which creates a bit of a buffer. Second, GRRM is completely finished with 25% of the next book (edits and all) and is rumored to be well into the balance of the book. GRRM is one of those writers who spent an inordinate amount of time working his way through plot points (such as the "Meereneese Knot") followed by completing hundreds of pages in an incredibly short period. Third (and last) GRRM strikes me as incredibly money oriented (and there is nothing wrong with that) and I suspect the HBO series is very lucrative for him. He'll find a way to ensure everything is complete before the television show.

And for the record, I'm a fan of the Jon, Arya and Tyrion character arcs. To date, the show has been very faithful to these three characters.

I'd still like to see Tyrion without his nose as in the books, lol. My fav character is without doubt the dragon lady (HOT) and I can't help but think she'll be the main character at the end but that seems rather obvious. Very kean to see how the 'others' fit into the story arc as I assume they'll be coming over the wall in the next books?

I just hope he doesn't rush things to meet TV's deadlines as that would probably take away from the book series.

Anyway very much looking forward to the next episode as I assume there's more death to come and the next one I actually want to see die brutally as I can't stand him/her.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Majiball

[T.J.Newton]

Cheerd for the big effin star trek 2 spoiler maj

I was hoping to catch it this week.(nevermind, im more of a starwars fan anyway)

P.s. My gues as to how thrones ends without kniwing anything of the books, is that all the families will die one way or another and their world/civilisation as it is will come to an end.

[Steve Moss]

Tyrion is a much greyer character in the books, but in the show they've practically gutted anything morally questionable about Peter Dinklage's role and painted him as a saint.

Jon is supposed to be a capable young warrior and a born leader. In S2 he spent most of his time getting punked by his elders for being a moron and ending up the butt of several virgin/wang jokes with Ygritte. And his connection with Ghost is nonexistent.

Arya is probably the most accurate of the three, but even a lot of her character development in Harrenhal was toned down. What was supposed to be her personal hell turned into tea and crumpets with her new bff Tywin Lannister.

As to Tyrion, what was more "grey" about him than the show? The books were very clear that Tyrion, despite being a drunken womanizer, was basically a highly intelligent good man. Ditto the show. Neither portray him as a saint.

Jon was repeatedly "punked" by his elders and Ygritte in the books. It was not until the battle for Castle Black that he really begins to come into his own as a warrior and leader. And remember he sent Ghost away in the books when he was with the wildlings, for the simple reason that wolves can't climb 700' tall walls. So yes, his connection was mostly non-existent during this time ) other than his "wolf" dreams.

HBO did soften Arya's time in Harrenhal. Largely I think as most audiences wouldn't be able to tolerate the day in and day out horror she experienced there. On HBO did show it, in flashes and glimpses (heads on spikes, men being tortured and others in chains is a fairly good indication of what Harrenhal was like to the viewers without dwelling on it).

And I quite liked Tywin's and Arya's interaction. Spiritually, they were the two closest connected characters in the books, as both are highly intelligent, psychopathic killers who were devoted to their families and completely willing to avenge any slight no matter how small. Their scenes clearly established that while Arya hated the Lannisters and will doubtless wreck her bloody revenge on them as she grows older, she is essentially following in the footsteps of Tywin (albeit it in a more direct way as Tywin hires out his work).

[Majiball]

Cheerd for the big effin star trek 2 spoiler maj

I was hoping to catch it this week.(nevermind, im more of a starwars fan anyway)

P.s. My gues as to how thrones ends without kniwing anything of the books, is that all the families will die one way or another and their world/civilisation as it is will come to an end.

Sorry mate, deleted the comment so others won't suffer your fate. I haven't seen it as yet only my old man has and he's a right wind-up merchant and knows that that sort of plot would see me walk out of the movie. Go watch it as my old mans most likely on the wind-up.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Majiball

[Majiball]

As to Tyrion, what was more "grey" about him than the show? The books were very clear that Tyrion, despite being a drunken womanizer, was basically a highly intelligent good man. Ditto the show. Neither portray him as a saint.

Jon was repeatedly "punked" by his elders and Ygritte in the books. It was not until the battle for Castle Black that he really begins to come into his own as a warrior and leader. And remember he sent Ghost away in the books when he was with the wildlings, for the simple reason that wolves can't climb 700' tall walls. So yes, his connection was mostly non-existent during this time ) other than his "wolf" dreams.

HBO did soften Arya's time in Harrenhal. Largely I think as most audiences wouldn't be able to tolerate the day in and day out horror she experienced there. On HBO did show it, in flashes and glimpses (heads on spikes, men being tortured and others in chains is a fairly good indication of what Harrenhal was like to the viewers without dwelling on it).

And I quite liked Tywin's and Arya's interaction. Spiritually, they were the two closest connected characters in the books, as both are highly intelligent, psychopathic killers who were devoted to their families and completely willing to avenge any slight no matter how small. Their scenes clearly established that while Arya hated the Lannisters and will doubtless wreck her bloody revenge on them as she grows older, she is essentially following in the footsteps of Tywin (albeit it in a more direct way as Tywin hires out his work).

Is Arya the boy/girl stark wondering around with The burnt faced knight? She doesn't strike me a psychopath although she gave the pig trader a right good smack in the last episode.

Out of curiousity did Rob Stark insist that Snow was made his heir as per the book? Also have they made any reference to Snows heritage? Or the dwarf's?

I think they should have shown the brutality in all it's glory just look at how they started the scence at the wedding, that was savage.

[Amo]

As to Tyrion, what was more "grey" about him than the show? The books were very clear that Tyrion, despite being a drunken womanizer, was basically a highly intelligent good man. Ditto the show. Neither portray him as a saint.

Let's see, for starters:

* Tyrion participating in the gang-rape of his wife.

* Poisoning Cersei to stop her attending council meetings.

* Threatening to harm Tommen if Cersei does anything to a prostitute assumed to be his lover.

* Having Symon Silver Tongue killed and turned into a stew.

Dinklage plays a more likable but considering less interesting version of Tyrion. He's like the Lannister version of Ned in the show.

Jon was repeatedly "punked" by his elders and Ygritte in the books. It was not until the battle for Castle Black that he really begins to come into his own as a warrior and leader. And remember he sent Ghost away in the books when he was with the wildlings, for the simple reason that wolves can't climb 700' tall walls. So yes, his connection was mostly non-existent during this time ) other than his "wolf" dreams.

Just wrong on so many levels. When was Jon repeatedly punked by his elders in the book? Did he get clubbed by Craster in the books and then bitched out by Mormont for being a dumbass? Did he have to ask the Halfhand to tag along in the books or was he personally requested? Did he botch Ygritte's execution and then spend his time leading her around on a wild goose chase. The answer, in case you haven't noticed, is no on all accounts.

Ghost is there during the fight with Qhorin Halfhand and afterwards, unlike in S2 when Ghost randomly disappeared because they couldn't be assed to animate him. Jon's warging abilities in the book are actually part of the reason Mance accepts him into the Wildling army. Something completely overlooked in the show. It isn't until the third book that Jon actually sends Ghost back to Castle Black.

And I quite liked Tywin's and Arya's interaction. Spiritually, they were the two closest connected characters in the books, as both are highly intelligent, psychopathic killers who were devoted to their families and completely willing to avenge any slight no matter how small. Their scenes clearly established that while Arya hated the Lannisters and will doubtless wreck her bloody revenge on them as she grows older, she is essentially following in the footsteps of Tywin (albeit it in a more direct way as Tywin hires out his work).

The two of them had great on-screen chemistry but their scenes were essentially pointless and didn't progress the plot at all. And that's the first time I've ever heard someone compare Arya with Tywin. Tywin isn't a "psychopathic killer". He's a ruthless warlord who employs psychopaths to do his dirty work but he's by no means a hatchet man. And certainly not one to have cosy little chats with some cupbearer. And Arya is no cold-blooded killer. Not at this stage of the books, unless you're counting the stable boy, whom she killed out of pure instinct. She is starting down her own path of darkness but not one comparable to Tywin. Edited June 5, 2013 by Amarillo

[Steve Moss]

Is Arya the boy/girl stark wondering around with The burnt faced knight? She doesn't strike me a psychopath although she gave the pig trader a right good smack in the last episode.

Out of curiousity did Rob Stark insist that Snow was made his heir as per the book? Also have they made any reference to Snows heritage? Or the dwarf's?

I think they should have shown the brutality in all it's glory just look at how they started the scence at the wedding, that was savage.

Yes, Arya is the girl pretending to be a boy. They've softened her character a bit as she's more violent without remorse in the book, but HBO I think is beginning to show that change in her personality (initially high spirited and fun loving to a cold killer).

The book only implies Robb Stark made Jon his heir (an argument with Caitlyn Stark over it, then a scene with him signing papers with her looking on out of sorts and then messengers heading north with the papers) though I agree its pretty clear he did. I haven't seen a reference to it in the HBO show, though all it will take is a reference from the Blackfish or Edmure in the next episode or two to clarify it.

I personally agree with you that they should reinforce the brutality of what is going on, but a lot of people (including my wife) are at the upper limit of what they can tolerate. I think HBO is striking the right balance.

[Steve Moss]

Let's see, for starters:

* Tyrion participating in the gang-rape of his wife.

* Poisoning Cersei to stop her attending council meetings.

* Threatening to harm Tommen if Cersei does anything to a prostitute assumed to be his lover.

* Having Symon Silver Tongue killed and turned into a stew.

Dinklage plays a more likable but considering less interesting version of Tyrion. He's like the Lannister version of Ned in the show.

Just wrong on so many levels. When was Jon repeatedly punked by his elders in the book? Did he get clubbed by Craster in the books and then bitched out by Mormont for being a dumbass? Did he have to ask the Halfhand to tag along in the books or was he personally requested? Did he botch Ygritte's execution and then spend his time leading her around on a wild goose chase. The answer, in case you haven't noticed, is no on all accounts.

Ghost is there during the fight with Qhorin Halfhand and afterwards, unlike in S2 when Ghost randomly disappeared because they couldn't be assed to animate him. Jon's warging abilities in the book are actually part of the reason Mance accepts him into the Wildling army. Something completely overlooked in the show. It isn't until the third book that Jon actually sends Ghost back to Castle Black.

The two of them had great on-screen chemistry but their scenes were essentially pointless and didn't progress the plot at all. And that's the first time I've ever heard someone compare Arya with Tywin. Tywin isn't a "psychopathic killer". He's a ruthless warlord who employs psychopaths to do his dirty work but he's by no means a hatchet man. And certainly not one to have cosy little chats with some cupbearer. And Arya is no cold-blooded killer. Not at this stage of the books, unless you're counting the stable boy, whom she killed out of pure instinct. She is starting down her own path of darkness but not one comparable to Tywin.

Tywin's treatment of Tyrion's common wife, and the lie he had Jaime tell, has been referenced twice that I can remember.

He's made threats of a more general nature to Cersie (though I agree he hasn't threatened Tommen).

His poisoning of Cersei was not intended to kill her, only inconvenience her. And HBO does a good job if showing the conflict, even it they don't dwell on every slight one has given the other.

Turning Symon into a stew was Bronn's idea, not Tyrion's, though Tyrion did give the order to make him disappear.

As to Jon, he's lectured by his elders quite a few times in the books (Benjen, Mormont, Tyrion, etc.). He did take Ygritte prisoner as he was to weak/honorable to kill her, though the lost scene was an invention of the show. Ygritte mocks him about his behaviors before he gives in. The wildlings are on his case for the most part. I fail to see how HBO has failed to capture Jon's character.

At this point, Arya has killed one person and ordered the death of three others. She's endured tremendous trauma. HBO is doing an excellent job showing her psychological shift from high spirited noble to remorseless assassin.

I get the impression that you want each page of the novels on screen. That's not reasonable. There will be cuts and the story will be condensed. I think HBO has done a stellar job to date. GRRM seems pleased, at least.

[Majiball]

Yes, Arya is the girl pretending to be a boy. They've softened her character a bit as she's more violent without remorse in the book, but HBO I think is beginning to show that change in her personality (initially high spirited and fun loving to a cold killer).

The book only implies Robb Stark made Jon his heir (an argument with Caitlyn Stark over it, then a scene with him signing papers with her looking on out of sorts and then messengers heading north with the papers) though I agree its pretty clear he did. I haven't seen a reference to it in the HBO show, though all it will take is a reference from the Blackfish or Edmure in the next episode or two to clarify it.

I personally agree with you that they should reinforce the brutality of what is going on, but a lot of people (including my wife) are at the upper limit of what they can tolerate. I think HBO is striking the right balance.

Out of curiosity then as you've read the books and I've only ordered them so far, will I get to see tyrion and tywin's goodbye scene in the next episode? I'm assuming it comes fairly quickly in the book after what happened last episode and I'm dead keen to see it as Tywin's a @#/?.

[Steve Moss]

I don't know as HBO split a Storm of Swords between seasons 3 and 4. But if it follows the books there should be 2 more (who I won't say in case someone is reading) biting the dust within the near future (this weekend or the beginning of season 4).

[Majiball]

Happy days as one of them deserves a death. I'm just hoping it's the season finale.