[Archived] Rumour: Venky's To Sell?

[thenodrog]

Many smaller clubs in europe follow a different model and have been pretty successful at it. A thriving academy (not the stagnant thing ours had become until quite recently btw), buying youth and potential,selling big.Repeat. This is the right way to do it-not run at wages as 80-90% of turnover.

Unsustainable,not to mention lazy.

Strange but popular misconception that out academy became successful just last year. It's surely wrong though. Hoilett and Jones to give two examples worth many millions have both been with BRFC for many years. I've no idea what goes on at Brockhall and pay little attention to it but Bobby Downes got little praise yet some of his players are taking big strides forward now.

I suppose this should be in the Samba thread but it really us more to do with club finances and management than player transfers.

IMO Samba will be sold in late August to spurs or Arsenal to fund the coming season. Why? City, Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool probably don't need him. Arsenal need him and Wenger is a wily old bird. He will wait till the last moment to make a reasonable bid which will further unsettle the player. Venky's will seize the opportunity to gain revenue to fund the gap in ST and sponsorship and the increased salaries widely praised by the fans in January. This means they will avoid having to fund the inevitable losses heading Rovers way in the year ending June 2012.

I guess Spurs might see Samba as a player to help further their ambition but would go 90% for Arsenal.

Tend to agree. I think Wenger is just letting us pay Samba's wages for the time being.

[BangkokRover]

The problem is after Dunn and Duffer who really had hit the headlines apart from the guys in the last 2 seasons. Personally I think its impossible produce players season in and season out. Maybe 1 ever 3 years is the best you can hope for.

[thenodrog]

.... You don't need too many Phil Jones' to be self-sufficent.

Problem with your point though yd is that you can't develop and nurture them, flog em off to the highest bidder and still be able to play them.

Rovers had one of the first, and one of the best academies yeti. Thing is, the other big clubs - as they always do - have come in and bettered us. They no doubt invest more in their academies and scouting systems, than we spend on incoming transfers for the first team squad.

Bottom line is, if we accept that the academy has made little, or indeed any profit since it's been in existence, then to bring it into bigger profit would take even more money. That money would have to come from the already inadequate transfer budget. We really can't put more cash into gambling on youth, while at the same time spending more cash on the transfer budget. We don't have the funds to do both.

IMO.

Lancashire United argument all over again den. Without foreign owners chucking money at us it is the only feasible solution.

[Kelbo]

Strange but popular misconception that out academy became successful just last year. It's surely wrong though. Hoilett and Jones to give two examples worth many millions have both been with BRFC for many years.

Tend to agree. I think Wenger is just letting us pay Samba's wages for the time being.

Indeed, how do we Judge the academy, Dunn, Duff, Beattie, Fielding, Carew (went home as a 16 year old - homesick) all playing at decent levels and a few more strutting their stuff in the Championship, Gallagher, Danns, Treacy, Morris looks like he will come,

Gunning and Doran playing Scottish Prem, Jon Walters (Stoke) thats on top of Jones, Hoilett, Hanley, Lowe and the new young crop such as Pearson, Adam Henley, Cotton and Jackson Ramm, Kane the keeper too.

They, along with others playing regularly in the lower regions suggests we have not done too badly, indeed Newcastle have gone in for Treacy this transfer window.

[John]

Whole thing is a nasty joke - there is not a day which goes by without my dislike of these muppets, ruining a good club.

[BangkokRover]

Indeed, how do we Judge the academy, Dunn, Duff, Beattie, Fielding, Carew (went home as a 16 year old - homesick) all playing at decent levels and a few more strutting their stuff in the Championship, Gallagher, Danns, Treacy, Morris looks like he will come,

Gunning Scottish Prem, Jon Walters (Stoke) thats on top of Jones, Hoilett, Hanley, Lowe and the new young crop such as Pearson, Adam Henley, Cotton and Jackson Ramm, Kane the keeper too.

They, along with others playing regularly in the lower regions suggests we have not done too badly, indeed Newcastle have gone in for Treacy this transfer window.

How much did we make for all those players?

[Kelbo]

How much did we make for all those players?

Close on £30 million for Jones and Duff alone, sell ons for Walters, Feilding £400,000 Beattie was around £1,000,000 - some of the young lads have sell on clauses so who knows, Gallagher another £500,000 - soon adds up and if the academy simply pays for itself, its worth it for to sell at huge amounts they must have given Rovers something, even Jones short time as a first team player he was instrumental in us staying up last year.

More importantly, we do need young squad players, british too with the new laws regarding squads!!

[thenodrog]

Those who say our wage to turnover ratio was an example that the club was being run badly should take into account there's only three ways to rectify this:

1. Pay significantly lower wages than the vast majority of the rest of the league - not sustainable in itself

2. Somehow significantly increase the turnover of our club - not doable

3. Settle for lower league football where we can pay lower wages - not desirable, and also would decrease turnover significantly

If theres a fourth option out there then I'd like to hear it.

Lanky Utd TGM. I've been saying so for two decades now. Big is beautiful. Every passing day as the options diminish the solution becomes more inevitable.

[jim mk2]

I can back up all of it.

I'm not doubting your information but why haven't the Guardian / Telegraph / Times picked up on the story ?

Alan Nixon has been challenged several times on this without response.

[thenodrog]

Who might that be Steve Kean ???

Goodman would be my bet?

[patrickvalery]

If someone wants to call my posts or opinions rubbish, as long as they justify it and are willing to discuss it then I have absolutely no problems with it. I don't understand why it would cause you quite so much distress. If someone replies to my posts with a personal attack and no actual football debate, like you and so many others do, that is less acceptable.

I'd much sooner have friends who would tell me when I was in the wrong then blindly agree with everything I say and do. Wouldn't you?

Anyway, this is going off topic so back to the football. Do you care to answer any of my points?

The point is, most people wouldn't call your posts or opinions 'rubbish' because its shows bad manners. If you only replaced 'rubbish' or 'absolute rubbish' with 'i see your point but....' i'm pretty sure you wouldn't end up in these squabbles. I think its a shame, because it actually masks the fact you're one of the better posters on here. You clearly know a bit about the game and can relay your points very well. The content of your posts are usually high quality, whether i agree with them or not.

Personally i'd love to see Rovers produce a steady stream of young talent through the accademy. It would make the whole experience more gratifying than buying in ready made talent. However, time afforded to clubs and managers nowadays makes it a big ask. The only side attempting it are Arsenal and each day i hear more fickle fans calling for Wengers head.

[BangkokRover]

Alan Nixon has been challenged several times on this without response.

If he can't get a 11 o'clocker out of it he does not care. He is not a Rovers fan.

Maybe he is in India investigating these claims now??

[thenodrog]

Agree.

I also firmly believe Theno that those same agents played a part in marginalising John Williams,Tom Finn et al.Again they gave bad advise to further their own gain.

Stinks.

Believe SG? I'm bloody certain of it! Suprised that you missed Allardyce off that list. He was the first they needed out of the way.

[BangkokRover]

The only side attempting it are Arsenal and each day i hear more fickle fans calling for Wengers head.

Here Here look at how Arsenal play the game.(Yes they are a little soft) but they are a cracking side to watch. It is madness that fans are grumbling about Wenger but what he has won and how little money he has spent is incredible.

[thenodrog]

Indeed, how do we Judge the academy, Dunn, Duff, Beattie, Fielding, Carew (went home as a 16 year old - homesick) all playing at decent levels and a few more strutting their stuff in the Championship, Gallagher, Danns, Treacy, Morris looks like he will come,

Gunning and Doran playing Scottish Prem, Jon Walters (Stoke) thats on top of Jones, Hoilett, Hanley, Lowe and the new young crop such as Pearson, Adam Henley, Cotton and Jackson Ramm, Kane the keeper too.

They, along with others playing regularly in the lower regions suggests we have not done too badly, indeed Newcastle have gone in for Treacy this transfer window.

Jon Carew was only a triallist I think Kelbo. Apparently persuaded over by Henning Berg he chose not to accept the terms that we offered.

[den]

Jon Carew was only a triallist I think Kelbo. Apparently persuaded over by Henning Berg he chose not to accept the terms that we offered.

Plus Dunn and Duff were at the club before the academy was running.

[rogerjonesgloves]

Jon Carew was only a triallist I think Kelbo. Apparently persuaded over by Henning Berg he chose not to accept the terms that we offered.

From memory he wasn't really a triallist, just brought over by Henning Berg for experience. Saw him play for the reserves and he missed a shed load of chances but other than that looked good.

[den]

The club was being financially run in the last 2 years for a sale. There had been three sources of funding to cover the intrinsic annual loss: owner donation, increasing debt, player sales - and we needed all three to stay as we were for long. The first was stopped, the second reached its limit and the third has severe risks of weaking the main revenue stream of place money. It could not carry on, which is why our owners sold us.

oh well, the discussion was simply about whether the wage-turnover ratio was out of control under the trust and JW - and whether it was sustainable. I think I demonstrated that it had been at a high level for years and it was held at that level intentionally - with great success.

As for why the trust sold, it was because they weren't prepared to fund us any more, and seeing that they weren't football people, they believed they had nothing more to offer. IMO.

[Mullionvagrant]

Lets suppose Venky's do sell and at the moment it is a big IF and at no stage has this been confirmed.

What in this scenario would become of the Jones money-would that go with them?

If Samba goes before any potential sale goes through-again will that money be lost?

It is imperative in this scenario therefore that Samba does not leave before any potential sale goes through.

potentially worrying times.

[Stuart]

This thread can probably be merged with the Venkys to Sell thread but...

If Venkys were to take the money out of the club (through some financial mechanism) this would lower the value of the purchase overall. The buyer would just deduct that amount from their bid. Whichever way it happens, Venkys would be unlikely to lose out. Keeping Samba before the sale and over-valuing him, might even be a better idea.

IF they are selling...

[BangkokRover]

How can they remove the money if the transfer is being paid in installments as documented in the other thread?

[cmb211087]

Or if the money has already been seized by another.......

[Grez]

From memory he wasn't really a triallist, just brought over by Henning Berg for experience. Saw him play for the reserves and he missed a shed load of chances but other than that looked good.

I watched that game - including the hatrick he scored before he went off with cramp after 70 mins. Apart from that he didn't do too bad...

[Gav]

I'm not doubting your information but why haven't the Guardian / Telegraph / Times picked up on the story ?

Alan Nixon has been challenged several times on this without response.

Got to agree Jim, seems we have so many 'leaks' at the club currently, this sort of news couldn't stay out of the public domain for long, could it?

From memory he wasn't really a triallist, just brought over by Henning Berg for experience. Saw him play for the reserves and he missed a shed load of chances but other than that looked good.

Carew played for the b team down at pleasignton and scored 5 in his first game.

He wanted a reported 1m signing on fee, Kenny said no chance.

[BangkokRover]

Or if the money has already been seized by another.......

Sorry what do you mean?