[Archived] Quick Poll: Venky's Takeover. Yes or No - Part II - The Return

[Exiled in Toronto]

I have voted 'Other' as it was widely reported at the time that if no sale was agreed, the trust were to have found other ways of financing the club.

All I remember seeing was one speculative comment on here - hardly reliable given the Niagara Falls of uselss 'insider' info we have to wade through on a daily basis.

I'm not sure what other ways there are of funding a chronically loss-making venture other than putting money in or selling assets to cover running costs, and they had stopped doing the former and were running out of road on the latter. If there had been a way of doing so, then surely they would have done that rather than risk Jack's work going up in smoke?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

How in God's name can anyone claim the risk was worth taking?...the clubs future is at stake.

As good old Colonel Kurtz would put it ' we feel like a Snail crawling along the edge of a Razorblade'

[rebelmswar]

Other.

Because we have no way of knowing that Trust would have eventually killed us off as a Premier club.

Because Venkeys have not yet let this entire transfer window go by.

Because I need to hope.

[Brfcrule1]

teacup although I agree communication has been a problem for them it is not their biggest problem I would say providing the funds needed to strengthen our squad is much more important which they have failed to do adequately.

[Stuart]

Other:

The buyout was a complete success... for the trust - assuming they aren't being paid in instalments! They weren't Rovers fans and didn't want the millstone weighing round their necks any longer.

From the club's point of view (i.e. it's main stakeholders - us fans) it's been an unmitigated aberration. The things they've got wrong are well documented and there's no point listing them again but they seem to have an arrogance about them that they are doing the right things and continue to patronise us with their assurances.

Would I prefer the death by a thousand cuts that the Trust had resigned us to? Of course not and the assumption the were the 'right owners' is also entirely questionable. However the Trust did put the right man in charge and left him to get on with it, backing his judgement even when they weren't convinced (see Ince). Venkys apparently knew better.

I do wonder where we would be if the Trust had continued with their £3m per season injection "loan". Possibly as safe and solvent as Bolton (all their debt being to a benefactor who loves the club and not a bank who love the smell of cash) but then the Trust weren't fans either so it's a moot point.

If things continue on their current trajectory, we DO know how this will end: relegation. If they can't get excited about PL football they've no chance in the Championship. Although I'd hardly be surprised if they thought that The Championship was a step up (but I'm sure they've been told now - probably via a secret note to avoid being dismissed for disagreeing, allegedly!).

My previous thought was a remorseful Fred Walker might get together a Blue-And-White-Knight consortium and make a lowly offer to take the club of their hands but I can't see that either.

However, as I posted earlier in my "fence musings" we are not yet at the point of no return. However we are in the cockpit with the ground coming screaming towards us but with, hopefully, just enough time to grab an off duty pilot from Business Class to pull the nose up.

If I was trying to be even-handed I imagine Venkys were caught unawares about the horror show that is top flight football in the 21st Century and are still looking around the sweet shop with their mouths open wondering why penny chews cost £60.

But I'm not feeling particularly benevolent right now, so I won't.

If they had an ounce of humility they would ask for help (from someone other than a football agent) and listen to them; or sell to the right buyer in good conscience but I fear it's better the Rao you know than the Al-Sayed you don't.

I hope that's clear... because I'm still confused!

[Teacup]

teacup although I agree communication has been a problem for them it is not their biggest problem I would say providing the funds needed to strengthen our squad is much more important

I think this is down to communication though. If they had tried harder with John Williams instead of trusting in Kentaro, things could have been completely different.

I am sure they are able to fund us better than the Trust did, however if they are unable to trust anyone around them to spend that money, to find the targets we need, to do the negotiations on behalf of them.. Then obviously it is going to appear as if they have no money.

[Stuart]

I think this is down to communication though. If they had tried harder with John Williams instead of trusting in Kentaro, things could have been completely different.

I am sure they are able to fund us better than the Trust did, however if they are unable to trust anyone around them to spend that money, to find the targets we need, to do the negotiations on behalf of them.. Then obviously it is going to appear as if they have no money.

The sad thing is, Teacup, that all of that is still their fault. They changed too much too fast, and, now that they need to act quickly, they seem to be dithering.

[Teacup]

The sad thing is, Teacup, that all of that is still their fault. They changed too much too fast, and, now that they need to act quickly, they seem to be dithering.

For sure, I am not going to defend them, anyone who does must be mental. The fact is though, we cannot all sit here and pretend that they did this to themselves on purpose. They are in a situation now where I guess they really have no one to turn to for advice, because they have no way of knowing whether that advice is for real or if it is for some ulterior motive.

Is there any one at the club now who we can all say that Venky's should be talking to for advice? Someone they can trust unequivocally?

[Stuart]

For sure, I am not going to defend them, anyone who does must be mental. The fact is though, we cannot all sit here and pretend that they did this to themselves on purpose. They are in a situation now where I guess they really have no one to turn to for advice, because they have no way of knowing whether that advice is for real or if it is for some ulterior motive.

Is there any one at the club now who we can all say that Venky's should be talking to for advice? Someone they can trust unequivocally?

That's the most depressing thing I've read on this mb for a long time.

Because it's true at least on part.

Ironically the person who most had Blackburn Rovers at heart "lost interest".

They could do a lot worse that arranging a meeting with Dave Whelan. I wonder what Tony Parkes might say to them.

Trouble is would they even listen to these people? More likely they will get in people they know from their existing business interests, such as the Indian gent whose is meant to be touting our players out to raise funds for Raul. (Much like Venkys I just not know what to believe anymore). But what will the know about the PL?

[Teacup]

That's the most depressing thing I've read on this mb for a long time.

Haha, sorry, that is just how I see it. They are in a self-inflicted circle of doom and we as the fans should help them if we can.

They could do a lot worse that arranging a meeting with Dave Whelan. I wonder what Tony Parkes might say to them.

Trouble is would they even listen to these people?

If we tell them we want them to set up a meeting with someone and they ignore us, thousands of fans agree this person is someone they can trust and they ignore us.. Then obviously they still haven't grasped the concept of football and there is not much else we can do.

However, I really do believe they need someone, who they can turn to, who the fans all agree is completely trustworthy. That is about as much as we can do without getting our pitchforks out.

[Amo]

Hindsight is 20/20.

The club had to be sold. People can talk about the Trust's alleged 'contingency plan', which remains speculation, but how long do you think that would have lasted? They took the money, ran, and will most likely never look back.

Venky's have greatly underestimated the task of running a PL football club, whether through their own naivety, misleading advisors, or a combination of the two. As said above, they tried to make their mark too soon, sacking an experienced manager half-way through the season and hiring a fish out of water. Losing people like John Williams and Tom Finn was a shame, but not wholly unexpected, considering takeovers often call for a clean sweep. However, who have they brought in to replace these senior figures? We still don't have a chairman at the club, when bureaucracy is crippling our decision making. At a time when leadership is needed, we have too many conflicts of interest.

What's done is done. It's no good talking about coulda, shoulda, wouldas now. Venky's are the owners and believe they will be for some time yet. I'd like to think we could chalk this first year off to teething problems and trust they'll hire the right people to manage a PL football club. Because I really don't see what the alternative is going to be.

[ABBEY]

Where is the we are being raped button?

[LeChuck]

Hmm...very biased options there, that 'no' option has been worded to be as unappealing as possible!

I voted no. I don't care if Venky's do put more money in than the Trust. We have shown for the the best part of a decade that money doesn't automatically bring success - we've outperformed teams who have spent much more than us on a regular basis.

Under the trust we would have finished higher up the league. We'd have a very healthy transfer budget due to the Jones sale, a proper manager spending it and experienced people negotiating the deals.

There is no way they should have sold to a group of people who are absolutely clueless.

[Majiball]

I voted no for obvious reasons. I am sure everyone in the main in life doesn't enter things to finish last, but only those with the collective package achieve their dreams. Venky's do not have the collective package nor the ability to become one.

[trueblue]

I have to laugh at a lot of the posts on this thread.. It's easy to vote NO with hindsight.. but think back to the actual take over - virtually everybody was ecstatic that we had been bought and the trust were right to sell us - we were all looking forwards to a revitalised team, better players, challenging for top six etc etc.

If the poll had been worded 'Were the trust right to sell to Venky's knowing what we know now' then I would have voted NO

[Glenn]

If the poll had been worded 'Were the trust right to sell to Venky's knowing what we know now' then I would have voted NO

.... so would everyone else, which would have been dull, so I cunningly didn't

[Darwen Rover]

Can't help but feel the heart and soul has been ripped out of our club.. V v sad..

[winstonsmith]

Back on Nov 2010 we ran a poll asking whether The Trust should sell to Venkys and 44% believed they should (and thanks to Waggy for bumping the old thread to give me an idea for this poll)

Now, I'm not going to do a follow up poll on "Are you happy now" or anything similar, as it's pretty obvious the vast majority of people feel we're in a far far worse state.

So I'll frame the question slightly differently. "Were the trust right in taking a chance on Venky's, rather than have us stagnate and slowly decline"

NOTE: UNLIKE OTHER POLLS WE RUN, THIS IS A PUBLIC POLL, WHICH MEANS OTHERS CAN SEE HOW YOU VOTED!

The wording of the question and the choice of answers is as loaded as 'Have you stopped beating your wife?'. However, I still think it has to be a resounding NO'.

The Trust had a duty to protect Jack's legacy which meant not taking steps which would endanger Rovers' survival. Whether to take a chance on Venky's or have us stagnate and slowly decline is a false dichotomy. Whether or not they liked having the job with which they were entrusted, the Trust could have opted not to sell to Venky's and either to invest more of Jack's money into Rovers or to find new owners who could be entrusted with Rovers future instead.

I believe that Venky's tenure so far has been an unmitigated disaster for Rovers and, unfortunately, I can see no grounds for thinking that it will improve. It can be seen now that the Trust were wrong to take the chance on Venky's. However I do not believe that this is just with the benefit of hindsight.

It should have been obvious from the start that they were unsuitable. Every time that Venky's have appeared on TV or been interviewed on the radio or quoted in the papers, I have been left with the impression that they were clueless about running a PL football club and were complete bullsh*t merchants! How anyone could have met them and then still decided that they would be good for Rovers beggars belief. It was three weeks before the takeover that Annie famously stated that they would aim for the top 4 but that 'we won't need to buy expensive players, we can always lease them'.

Look out for a couple of loan signings before the window closes!

[sentient]

I have to laugh at a lot of the posts on this thread.. It's easy to vote NO with hindsight.. but think back to the actual take over - virtually everybody was ecstatic that we had been bought and the trust were right to sell us - we were all looking forwards to a revitalised team, better players, challenging for top six etc etc.

Thats just not true. Many, many posters and supporters were vehemently opposed to any of the prospective takeovers and the KFCwannabees in particular. Because the deal never made any sense whatsoever for BRFC. But those people were criticised and shouted down as luddites living in the dark ages. How foolish those accusations look now!

People will always be blinded by shiny promises - its the basis of any scam. Just not quite sure who was blinded by who at the moment but naive passive supporters make mit easy for the scammers.

[broadsword]

Flawed wording of the poll insomuch as the Trust may have taken a fresh look at financing if Venky's hadn't turned up.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Flawed wording of the poll insomuch as the Trust may have taken a fresh look at financing if Venky's hadn't turned up.

If they had an alternate financing model in mind, which I highly doubt, it would put their decision to sell to Venky's in a worse light imo. At least the thought that it was sell to them or nothing had some justification to it.

[True Blue & White]

I voted 'Other' because unlike our owners, the question is loaded.

The Trust only stopped spending money when they put us up for sale which if you take your blue and white tinted spectacles off for a minute you'd say is a sensible decision, providing we stayed in the Premier League and lest we forget they gave Big Sam £6m to buy the flop known as 'Niko' Kalinic. So far Venky's have committed at most £3.5m on a player in the form of the poor man's Carlos Villanueva, Mauro Formica.

I wish people would stop re-writing history and acting as if the Trust had a no transfer budget policy from the day they took over. If they hadn't sold to Venky's, as proposed by the question, are we assuming they would have sold to someone else or kept us? If the latter, then they would've have made money available and I'm sure some of the Phil Jones money would have been re-invested by now.

I believe BMI to have a bigger annual turnover than Venky's and the Trust to be able (if willing) to commit more money into Rovers than Venky's ever will in their tenture. The problem with the Trust is they didn't want us, not their wealth, so if they didn't sell us and thus wanted us and were prepared to invest in us I believe John Williams would still be here, as would Sam Allardyce (btw I'm not a fan of his), we would have avoided relegation easily last season and we'd have a budget of around £15m to spend in this window at least and would have brought at least one player in by now.

As much as the Trust weren't willing to invest in order to improve the team, they knew they had to support us stay in the league at the very least, the trouble is I don't think Venky's have a clue about what they have to do to ensure our PL status let us propel us back into the UEFA league as they claim is their aim.

[Miker]

The Trust only stopped spending money when they put us up for sale which if you take your blue and white tinted spectacles off for a minute you'd say is a sensible decision, providing we stayed in the Premier League and lest we forget they gave Big Sam £6m to buy the flop known as 'Niko' Kalinic. So far Venky's have committed at most £3.5m on a player in the form of the poor man's Carlos Villanueva, Mauro Formica.

I wish people would stop re-writing history and acting as if the Trust had a no transfer budget policy from the day they took over. If they hadn't sold to Venky's, as proposed by the question, are we assuming they would have sold to someone else or kept us? If the latter, then they would've have made money available and I'm sure some of the Phil Jones money would have been re-invested by now.

You have to remember that at the time we sold Bentley for 15 million, Santa Cruz for 18 million and Warnock for 8 million (and I might be missing a few others too). We didn't see much of that money put back into the team, it all went on wages and debts.

Obviously if the Trust hadn't sold us they would look for ways to keep financing us and keep us in the league, but the only interest they in that was so they could eventually sell us. They no longer had any interest of running the club and that's virtually fact now. You also mention that if the Trust were still in charge then they would've re-invested the Phil Jones money already by now. But can you remember when we bought Kalinic? He wasn't officially registered to play for us until the first game of the season.

The problem with the Trust is they didn't want us, not their wealth, so if they didn't sell us and thus wanted us and were prepared to invest in us I believe John Williams would still be here, as would Sam Allardyce (btw I'm not a fan of his), we would have avoided relegation easily last season and we'd have a budget of around £15m to spend in this window at least and would have brought at least one player in by now.

Exactly - IF. It's a very big IF. Fact is, they didn't. It was their decision to sell and sell they did. It wasn't a choice of whether we stay under the Trust or not, it was a decision of who our new owners were going to be.

As much as the Trust weren't willing to invest in order to improve the team, they knew they had to support us stay in the league at the very least, the trouble is I don't think Venky's have a clue about what they have to do to ensure our PL status let us propel us back into the UEFA league as they claim is their aim.

This I agree with.

[PAFELL]

I have voted 'Other' as it was widely reported at the time that if no sale was agreed, the trust were to have found other ways of financing the club.

This for me would have been the favoured option, for at least we would have been looked after by sensible owners and more importantly, run day to day with an experienced and respected board and management team ( although we didnt know this at the time,

or that they would sack Allardyce)

This is what I would have preferred. The Trust to stay and finance the club in other ways. But most of us are not sure if there was such a plan. So we have to vote only what we know now.

I would like the Walkers back now - but.

[Mr. E]

It was never, ever the case that we had "no money". The trust simply could not give a damn if the club Jack Walker invested his dreams in lived or died. At the end, they are the biggest villains in this story. Selfish and uncaring.