[Archived] Quick Poll: Venky's Takeover. Yes or No - Part II - The Return

[Boz]

How many people can actually state that they know for certain all of the following with regards to The Trust?-

Who are/were the trustees?

Who are the beneficiaries?

What was the main purpose of trust?

There was always a level of secrecy surrounding our owners and their intentions, more akin to the Masons.

Assuming that The Trust is now completely out of the picture with regards to BRFC, would it still be a problem for anyone who knew this information now posting it into the public domain? Who were the real power brokers and what governed their decision making? Why not sell BRFC in 2000? What changed between the decision by JW to protect this asset (BRFC) and then actively look for a buyer over ten years later? Why did JW feal the need to protect BRFC and from whom? Did the trustees follow the instructions of the trust deed? Or did the beneficiaries force the issue?

As the Venky debacle unravels perhaps BRFC supporters might well feel that they have a right to look for answers?

[Paul]

What a great question......................hopefully someone can answer???

[Neil Weaver]

What a great question......................hopefully someone can answer???

It is Paul, but the cynic in me says the only folk who can give sensible answers are the trustees or probably the legal folk who were involved (what was the chap called who gave an interview a year or two ago - Egerton-Vernon or something was it?). Don't think it's too likely myself. But if the site could get something, maybe an email or a guest on a podcast, it could be very interesting and something of an exclusive.

[den]

It is Paul, but the cynic in me says the only folk who can give sensible answers are the trustees or probably the legal folk who were involved (what was the chap called who gave an interview a year or two ago - Egerton-Vernon or something was it?). Don't think it's too likely myself. But if the site could get something, maybe an email or a guest on a podcast, it could be very interesting and something of an exclusive.

Paul Egerton Vernon.

Everything on track then!

[philipl]

How many people can actually state that they know for certain all of the following with regards to The Trust?-

1) Who are/were the trustees?

2) Who are the beneficiaries?

3) What was the main purpose of trust?

It is a private Jersey Trust but the answers were in the open for those who cared to look.

1) Paul Egerton Vernon was the public face of the Trustees whilst David Brown as Deputy Chairman and Board Member of Rovers was appointed by the Trust.

2) The beneficiaries are members of the Walker family plus Rovers enjoyed a form of beneficial status

3) The Trust was established back in 1987 when Jack Walker placed all his industrial assets into it. The purpose is to look after and manage the assets for the benefit of the beneficiaries and to do so in their best interests as determined by the Trustees according to the Deed establishing the Trust.

[Boz]

It is a private Jersey Trust but the answers were in the open for those who cared to look.

1) Paul Egerton Vernon was the public face of the Trustees whilst David Brown as Deputy Chairman and Board Member of Rovers was appointed by the Trust.

2) The beneficiaries are members of the Walker family plus Rovers enjoyed a form of beneficial status

3) The Trust was established back in 1987 when Jack Walker placed all his industrial assets into it. The purpose is to look after and manage the assets for the benefit of the beneficiaries and to do so in their best interests as determined by the Trustees according to the Deed establishing the Trust.

Thank you for this reply, although is there anything new in it?

So are you stating that there are/were only the two trustees? The two named have always been out there in the public domain, were there more?

Beneficiaries, nothing really specific, but just the general Walker family and BRFC to a degree? Nothing new here? But was/is there a weighting between any family members, e.g. sibling, children, nephews, nieces, grandchildren, whereby one voice has more say than others?

Information is out there in the public domain which tells us that BRFC Investments Limited owned the shares, of which the Jack Walker 1987 Settlement had ultimate control, similarly to that of the airline business, plus quite a few other businesses some of which can be seen to be located on Walker Park and acclaimed local eateries.

My question was more with regards to the instructions and powers contained within the trust document, the dynamics surrounding how decisions were made. JW obviously surrounded himself with long standing advisors whose business acumen he held in high regard, were these considered safer hands than the ultimate beneficiaries? Who was he looking to protect his business assets from? A sibling with not the same level of interests he shared, or international play-boys who enjoy a champagne lifestyle with Princes in Monte Carlo?

However what instructions to the trustees did the Trust Deed actually give? Ok, to continue to make sound well thought out business decisions for his various business interests, such as to float the airline company when the timing was considered most appropriate, i.e. to make profit/cash and to protect the underlying assets. However what specific instructions appertained to BRFC, which he often stated ideally he wanted to be self sufficient, but we know also that he reassured supporters of his long term financial backing. The game quickly moved on and the wealth needed in the EPL took it to a whole new level. But when and by whom was it felt that an exit strategy should be sought for this asset, that as you say also held beneficial status with The Trust? Was protection of this 'special' asset as the trust stated not paramount to the trustees?

I may be wrong, but I think that there are very few out there who actually know the full facts and none inclined to share this information with supporters who might ponder how we ended up with our current owners.

[philipl]

Paul Egerton Vernon's interview in 2000 shed quite a lot of light on some of these matters, particularly the instructions.

Ultimately we are talking about a private Trust and the questions regarding the family ought to remain private to the family. However, there is a huge amount of Trust case law which is in the public domain and governs the actions and decision making of Trustees to a far greater extent than we have right of access to whatever the Venky's are getting up to.

[dave birch]

Paul Egerton Vernon's interview in 2000 shed quite a lot of light on some of these matters, particularly the instructions.

Ultimately we are talking about a private Trust and the questions regarding the family ought to remain private to the family. However, there is a huge amount of Trust case law which is in the public domain and governs the actions and decision making of Trustees to a far greater extent than we have right of access to whatever the Venky's are getting up to.

Bloody hell philip, you were doing alright up to.. "However" then you went on a legal bit, and then had a shot at Venkys.

As someone said quite a few days (months) back, you are becoming a parody of yourself.

Can you not help yourself? It was a question about the Trust, not about the Venkys.

Be honest, you don't know what was contained in the trust document, how the trustees were to act in time. It may be that Jack said (and this is pure conjecture on my part) that in 2010 the trust should divest itself of the Rovers to the first available purchaser. WE JUST DON'T KNOW.

[blue_and_white]

As far as I'm aware all the trust cared about was whether the potential new owners were financially stable. Either that's the only requirement Jack stipulated be met in selling or thats the way they decided to approach it. Unless anything pretty revelatory comes out about Venkys in the future then the trust accomplished its only goal in selling us to people with money, I suspect what happened on the pitch after they didn't matter to them.

And to be honest I don't particularly blame them for that. I fail to see how the trust were supposed to predict everything Venkys would do after taking over. We've already seen the confusing messages they constantly send out, mixed in with some very good PR on occasions about having their hearts in the right place etc. We've seen them in action for 12 months and still can't figure them out, not sure how the trust was supposed to pre-emptively predict their erratic behaviour on the basis of investigating their financial situation.

For financial reasons the trust was right to sell us, for footballing reasons it appears not but they can't predict the future and any blame for the current situation in that respect lies purely with Venkys.