[Archived] Even the Indian Press...

[PAFELL]

Then why not pick the worst up on it. Unfortunately it seems some on here think they have a right to be insulting because they have been on since the year dot. I won't even mention the thinly veiled racism that has crept into the site. Ho hum.

Where was anything of a racist nature mentioned. If you consider people who are not happy with the owners are being racist then you are wrong. I suggest race with regards to the owners has got nothing to do with how supporters feel towards the owners. It is the mistakes and the sheer stupidity of their actions and non-actions that people complain about - not their race.

[yeti-dog]

So I can highlight those people who can't understand simple rules about personal attacks?

Philip posted a link worthy of discussion, feel free to disagree with it, but don't let it get personal. It's not rocket science.

To be honest Glenn I don't think it is worthy of discussion.

It's a non-article posted solely to feed his already entrenched position.

As for this statement..."The truth is Venky's are becoming a sick joke in India because they are so ridiculously out of their depth in buying a PL club. Most successful Indians are becoming very uneasy about how Venky's are now damaging their country's emerging reputation for managerial professionalism" please show me where in the article this is verified?It's clearly one mans opinion presented as fact.

I think the fact that Philip posted this is the only reason it hasn't been locked already.

[Glenn]

To be honest Glenn I don't think it is worthy of discussion.

I do. But you're welcome to your view point. Possibly it could have gone into an existing thread.

It's a non-article posted solely to feed his already entrenched position.

Are you implying board members are now paying the Indian press to write and publish articles for them? Sure, Philip highlighted an article that re-enforced his own view, but you can pin the authoring of it on him.

As for this statement..."The truth is Venky's are becoming a sick joke in India because they are so ridiculously out of their depth in buying a PL club. Most successful Indians are becoming very uneasy about how Venky's are now damaging their country's emerging reputation for managerial professionalism" please show me where in the article this is verified?It's clearly one mans opinion presented as fact.

I agreed, and he presented it quite well without name calling. Personally I don't read half as much into it as he does. Doesn't mean it's invalid. We've always maintained that we never want to censor people's views, only how they choose to express them.

I think the fact that Philip posted this is the only reason it hasn't been locked already.

I think that's rubbish. We get more complaints from the "old timers" that they are victimised by mods (especially new mods) than the rest of the board put together. The mods went to great lengths to draw up a set of guidelines they work to so they wouldn't have to put up with accusations of favouritism.

The only slight concession I'll give (and it doesn't apply in this case) is a lot of the "old timers" know the rules as well as the mods and push them right to the limits as they've long since worked out where the line is, where as "newbies" don't and quite often go blundering across it (which is why newbies tend to get a gentle reminder, where as "old timers" move straight to something more serious ... as they should know better).

Anyway. I hope you get to see this before a mod removes it for being off topic (as they should ).

[tonyoz]

You're welcome to disagree with Philip (or anyone else on here), but refrain from personal attacks. I know you're not the first or the worst offended, but I'm getting fed up with it. Once upon a time we could debate stuff with resort to making it personal.

Blimey Glenn, you must have a good memory!

[rogerjonesgloves]

Where was anything of a racist nature mentioned. If you consider people who are not happy with the owners are being racist then you are wrong. I suggest race with regards to the owners has got nothing to do with how supporters feel towards the owners. It is the mistakes and the sheer stupidity of their actions and non-actions that people complain about - not their race.

It's a general comment. I am equally sure that there are many fans who hate the fact that Rovers are now Asian owned.

There have been many lazy stereotyped comments about the Rao family and worse, remember 'Curry shagging' for example (message to Venkys). That and referrals of 'going back to India' type comments are racist. I don't recall comments aimed at the trust saying 'get back to the Channel Islands' etc.

It may be unpalatable but there will be racists on the site, I've lived in East Lancashire long enough and been to enough Rovers games to have witnessed racial abuse and sentiments aired.

[BRFC95]

It may be unpalatable but there will be racists on the site, I've lived in East Lancashire long enough and been to enough Rovers games to have witnessed racial abuse and sentiments aired.

It flies about in all directions at all races, don't try and make it out that it's only one way.

[rogerjonesgloves]

It flies about in all directions at all races, don't try and make it out that it's only one way.

So that makes it acceptable?

[BangkokRover]

There have been many lazy stereotyped comments about the Rao family and worse, remember 'Curry shagging' for example (message to Venkys). That and referrals of 'going back to India' type comments are racist. I don't recall comments aimed at the trust saying 'get back to the Channel Islands' etc.

I agree there should be no racism on the board but sorry how is "go back to India" racist that's where they are from!

[yeti-dog]

So that makes it acceptable?

For what it's worth I think you have a valid point but no-one on here will admit to it so you're on a hiding to nothing.

[rogerjonesgloves]

I agree there should be no racism on the board but sorry how is "go back to India" racist that's where they are from!

It's lazy and gives you an insight into how someone thinks.

For what it's worth I think you have a valid point but no-one on here will admit to it so you're on a hiding to nothing.

I know, I'm waiting for a snotty reply from admin.

[yeti-dog]

Thanks for the detailed response Glenn.

At the risk of being boorish I would like to query one issue one final time..

I'm all for freedom of expression(as evidenced by a recent 2 day ban for apparently 'making jokes about paedophiles',but it's this statement which bothered me:

"Most successful Indians are becoming very uneasy about how Venky's are now damaging their country's emerging reputation for managerial professionalism"

This isn't simply Philip's opinion,he presents it as a fact. It's this which winds some of us up when he he gets on his high-horse. Philip needs to remember to use 'In my opinion' occasionally which would immediately change the context of the above.

Sorry if this seems pedantic but I think it's an important point to make.

I'll now get my coat as I've taken this even more off topic!

[yeti-dog]

It's lazy and gives you an insight into how someone thinks.

I know, I'm waiting for a snotty reply from admin.

It is lazy and,in my opinion,is most often used by an indigenous population as a means of ostacising and distancing others..and that's all I'll say on the matter before the 'There's No Racism On This Messageboard' posse arrive en masse.

[cruz]

Most successful Indians are becoming very uneasy about how Venky's are now damaging their country's emerging reputation for managerial professionalism.

Can anyone point me to the answer, to umpteen requests, where these "Indians" have been named? I still can't find Philipl's reply.

Also he referred to Indian Companies being embarrassed by Venky's. Can you point me to his list of them too. Thanks

[imy9]

The silence is deafening Cruz... Don't expect it to change.

[Black Burn]

Philip has yet to justify why he is so certain that I'm a Venkys plant/PR man either.

That alone makes me doubt his words.

I respect his opinions, but his insistence that I am a bona fide Venkys guy grates on my nerves. To top it off he even asked me once regarding the bank overdraft "so you admit it's true" even though I never denied it or post anything to object it.

Just because I make seemingly pro-Venkys statements doesn't make me a Venkys PR man. If that's the case, I think there is more than a dozen so-called Venkys PR on the messageboard.

Someone mentioned that he had a source that tells him that I'm a plant. I would love to know who that source is because I certainly don't know him.

[cruz]

The silence is deafening Cruz... Don't expect it to change.

I think this is a rather apt smiley

[Exiled in Toronto]

Someone mentioned that he had a source that tells him that I'm a plant. I would love to know who that source is because I certainly don't know him.

He also has a source who told him that we were 7,000 season tickets down, like for like. And he doesn't even check his own assertions - see Nazi warning sign. If he corroborated before reporting as fact, neither of thsoe two instances from the last week would have been posted.

[BiggusLaddus]

Doesn't matter, all record of one of them was removed anyway.

[philipl]

OK, part of my work involves Indian businesses at a high level and the only ones who don't find Venky's very public failure at Rovers an embarassment (to put it mildly) are the ones who have never heard of Venky's.

And there are plenty of other Rovers supporters with contacts in India who are telling me the same thing.

[imy9]

OK, part of my work involves Indian businesses at a high level and the only ones who don't find Venky's very public failure at Rovers an embarassment (to put it mildly) are the ones who have never heard of Venky's.

And there are plenty of other Rovers supporters with contacts in India who are telling me the same thing.

'most successful Indians' find Venkys embarrassing now becomes people that you have had contact with- I'd stop digging.

[unclejack28]

Sorry philip, I don't agree with you. I live in India and have been following Rovers for a long time. I work in the sports management field and have contact with the "big business" that you talk about. Most of them are proud of venkys and there venture to promote the game in India. India has huge potential due mainly to its population however presently there is no money in football in India. However over the key to everything is getting someone from India to play in the PL and this is Venkys first goal. These things take time and everyone realizes that. Companies such as Reliance,Tata etc are also getting involved currently by pumping money into football (IMG,AIFF) again it will take time to see the fruits of this. There was big interest in the Pune vs Blackburn game in India and that's a positive step, although it didn't work out. To say Venkys is an embarrassment here is slightly misleading and the only people who are saying that too you are probably people who either view this message board or people who read the UK news because it definitely comes across like that. Anybody who has a clue about what is actually going on (we can see this through direct quotes from the company/manager) will care to disagree with you.

No personal attack or anything I'm just offering you a sense of the mood from here.

[Black Burn]

OK, part of my work involves Indian businesses at a high level and the only ones who don't find Venky's very public failure at Rovers an embarassment (to put it mildly) are the ones who have never heard of Venky's.

And there are plenty of other Rovers supporters with contacts in India who are telling me the same thing.

And did they tell you I'm a Venkys PR guy?

Please kindly inform them that they're mistaken if they did. Thanks.

Better yet, PM me their identities and I can clarify with them myself. Would love to know who they mistook me for.

[Kelbo]

Sorry philip, I don't agree with you. I live in India and have been following Rovers for a long time. I work in the sports management field and have contact with the "big business" that you talk about. Most of them are proud of venkys and there venture to promote the game in India. India has huge potential due mainly to its population however presently there is no money in football in India. However over the key to everything is getting someone from India to play in the PL and this is Venkys first goal. These things take time and everyone realizes that. Companies such as Reliance,Tata etc are also getting involved currently by pumping money into football (IMG,AIFF) again it will take time to see the fruits of this. There was big interest in the Pune vs Blackburn game in India and that's a positive step, although it didn't work out. To say Venkys is an embarrassment here is slightly misleading and the only people who are saying that too you are probably people who either view this message board or people who read the UK news because it definitely comes across like that. Anybody who has a clue about what is actually going on (we can see this through direct quotes from the company/manager) will care to disagree with you.

No personal attack or anything I'm just offering you a sense of the mood from here.

Just a point here, in my opinion and speaking as someone who has coached lads up to semi pro level, how long do you think it would take to find an Indian player good enough to play Premiership Football?

When Herbert Metcalfe was the Chairman of Bradford City, he offered scouts a kings ransom to find a Pakistani footballer good enough to play in the first team, Bradford is extremely highly populated with lads of Pakistani descent and he knew they would put thousands on the gate if that were to happen, never did!!

In the UK, we have had Pakistani/Indian lads at league clubs junior/Youth level etc, playing a much higher standard than you will get in India and still fail to make it.

So to the question again, how long do you think it would take to find and Indian player good enough? I would say, even with the best coaching, 5 years minimum if at all!!

[rogerjonesgloves]

Sorry philip, I don't agree with you. I live in India and have been following Rovers for a long time. I work in the sports management field and have contact with the "big business" that you talk about. Most of them are proud of venkys and there venture to promote the game in India. India has huge potential due mainly to its population however presently there is no money in football in India. However over the key to everything is getting someone from India to play in the PL and this is Venkys first goal. These things take time and everyone realizes that. Companies such as Reliance,Tata etc are also getting involved currently by pumping money into football (IMG,AIFF) again it will take time to see the fruits of this. There was big interest in the Pune vs Blackburn game in India and that's a positive step, although it didn't work out. To say Venkys is an embarrassment here is slightly misleading and the only people who are saying that too you are probably people who either view this message board or people who read the UK news because it definitely comes across like that. Anybody who has a clue about what is actually going on (we can see this through direct quotes from the company/manager) will care to disagree with you.

No personal attack or anything I'm just offering you a sense of the mood from here.

You're obviously too close to be objective, the view from Malta is much clearer. :lol:

[rogerjonesgloves]

Just a point here, in my opinion and speaking as someone who has coached lads up to semi pro level, how long do you think it would take to find an Indian player good enough to play Premiership Football?

When Herbert Metcalfe was the Chairman of Bradford City, he offered scouts a kings ransom to find a Pakistani footballer good enough to play in the first team, Bradford is extremely highly populated with lads of Pakistani descent and he knew they would put thousands on the gate if that were to happen, never did!!

In the UK, we have had Pakistani/Indian lads at league clubs junior/Youth level etc, playing a much higher standard than you will get in India and still fail to make it.

So to the question again, how long do you think it would take to find and Indian player good enough? I would say, even with the best coaching, 5 years minimum if at all!!

I understand what you are saying but there is also the aspect of developing the game in India which might mean little to us but be very appealing to the Raos.

I played Hockey and was frustrated by the lack of young Hockey players in the area. It could have benefited my club but then again possibly not. Point being things are often worth it simply for what they do for the participants or in the case of India for the image of the club.