[Archived] Even the Indian Press...

[Kelbo]

I understand what you are saying but there is also the aspect of developing the game in India which might mean little to us but be very appealing to the Raos.

I played Hockey and was frustrated by the lack of young Hockey players in the area. It could have benefited my club but then again possibly not. Point being things are often worth it simply for what they do for the participants or in the case of India for the image of the club.

'However over the key to everything is getting someone from India to play in the PL and this is Venkys first goal' quote

That is the part of the quote to which I was replying to, the image of the club is simply irrelevant in the context of what the poster has stated!

[rogerjonesgloves]

'However over the key to everything is getting someone from India to play in the PL and this is Venkys first goal' quote

That is the part of the quote to which I was replying to, the image of the club is simply irrelevant in the context of what the poster has stated!

I'm not arguing, just adding another dimension. I would love to see an Indian play for Rovers but I wouldn't spend unrealistic sums to achieve it.

[Glenn]

Doesn't matter, all record of one of them was removed anyway.

All public record. Nothing ever gets intentionally deleted.

[unclejack28]

Hey roger.

First of all it will take more than 5 years. The main problem currently is this.

There are very talented kids in India, but the infrastructure is not in place to develop these talents. I was talking to the CEO of procam india the other day google the company if you like basically what he was saying it takes a large investment/risk to develop these talents because in order to play in england they need to stay there at a young age and play with people with the same attributes physically and talent wise as they are. These people come from uneducated backgrounds so first step is getting most of them to speak english then pay for education/living expenses in the uk, all this costs money and again takes time so who is going to take a risk with these kids? What venkys is trying to do is set up an "english type" academy in india bring coaches/staff down from there and try and develop as much as they can here to save on those expenses as well as having a greater number of students to increase the probability. Arsenal had scouts in India about a month ago and have taken 10 kids for trials over there. I doubt anyone will succeed as the playing standards are very different, Qpr has done the same. This is not a project that has a time scale on it, but a project if handled correctly and the owners don't loose faith has HUGE potential. I'm sure Venkys know all this and that's why there's talk of their 17 year old son etc taking over later, this is to show they are committed long term. If they have the capital to sustain themselves for that time period we will never know but have to wait and see.

[Glenn]

Sorry philip, I don't agree with you. I live in India and have been following Rovers for a long time. I work in the sports management field and have contact with the "big business" that you talk about. Most of them are proud of venkys and there venture to promote the game in India. India has huge potential due mainly to its population however presently there is no money in football in India. However over the key to everything is getting someone from India to play in the PL and this is Venkys first goal. These things take time and everyone realizes that. Companies such as Reliance,Tata etc are also getting involved currently by pumping money into football (IMG,AIFF) again it will take time to see the fruits of this. There was big interest in the Pune vs Blackburn game in India and that's a positive step, although it didn't work out. To say Venkys is an embarrassment here is slightly misleading and the only people who are saying that too you are probably people who either view this message board or people who read the UK news because it definitely comes across like that. Anybody who has a clue about what is actually going on (we can see this through direct quotes from the company/manager) will care to disagree with you.

No personal attack or anything I'm just offering you a sense of the mood from here.

This guys gets how it should work. Well crafted, none aggressive post that addresses the issue not the poster.

If this was an actual Kindergarten (not just occasionally feeling like one) I'd be handing out little sticky gold stars right about now.

[unclejack28]

Kelbo.

Anything that is beneficial to the Raos in regards to football is beneficial to blackburn rovers too. There is money in India and lots of it to all you need to do is check the forbes list. Reliance ( the biggest company in India) has just invested a lot of money into the all india football federation to start providing facilities etc for reasons iv given above. If the image of the club grows in India you will see these companies jumping on board which could only be positive to brfc.

To give you a comparison. Pune's IPL team costed the same amount as manchester united is worth and the league is 3-4 years old. Its just that cricket has developed in the country and I feel football has the same potential.

[Mattyblue]

It's a general comment. I am equally sure that there are many fans who hate the fact that Rovers are now Asian owned.

There have been many lazy stereotyped comments about the Rao family and worse, remember 'Curry shagging' for example (message to Venkys). That and referrals of 'going back to India' type comments are racist. I don't recall comments aimed at the trust saying 'get back to the Channel Islands' etc.

It may be unpalatable but there will be racists on the site, I've lived in East Lancashire long enough and been to enough Rovers games to have witnessed racial abuse and sentiments aired.

Ahhh so you haven't seen 'racism creep on to the site' at all, but as an East Lancs club with an East Lancs fans it is just obvious that we are backward bigots. That explains the hostility, nowt to do with their cack handed approach to the club.

'Get back to the Channel Islands'? They were never here anyway... oh just like the Rao's then?

Well I've bitten again to your WUMmery, well done roge!

[Black Burn]

Ahhh so you haven't seen 'racism creep on to the site' at all, but as an East Lancs club with an East Lancs fans it is just obvious that we are backward bigots. That explains the hostility, nowt to do with their cack handed approach to the club.

'Get back to the Channel Islands'? They were never here anyway... oh just like the Rao's then?

Well I've bitten again to your WUMmery, well done roge!

I'm not sure about this, but I believe he didn't deny that the Venkys's unsuccessful management was one of the reasons why many fans hate them. He is just attributing racism as one of the reasons, and not the sole reason.

There was also a comment "No, not another Indian owner!" made by one poster when there was speculation that another Indian company might buy Blackburn Rovers from Venkys.

While admittedly Venkys do leave a lot to be desired in terms of handling our club, there will always be a slight tinge of racism by a select few minority present.

Racism is inevitable all around the world, not just Britain.

[cruz]

OK, part of my work involves Indian businesses at a high level and the only ones who don't find Venky's very public failure at Rovers an embarassment (to put it mildly) are the ones who have never heard of Venky's.

And there are plenty of other Rovers supporters with contacts in India who are telling me the same thing.

You could write Venky's press statements Philip. They never fully answer direct questions either

And these 'high level' Indian Businesses are? By high level do you mean an office in a tall building?

[rogerjonesgloves]

Ahhh so you haven't seen 'racism creep on to the site' at all, but as an East Lancs club with an East Lancs fans it is just obvious that we are backward bigots. That explains the hostility, nowt to do with their cack handed approach to the club.

'Get back to the Channel Islands'? They were never here anyway... oh just like the Rao's then?

Well I've bitten again to your WUMmery, well done roge!

Yes I have, as I said. You don't think 'Curry shagging' is racist?. I understand that many are angered by the situation they perceive the club to be but where this results in racist comments it is still not acceptable

I am local and sadly I am frequently embarrassed and angered by racist attitudes in the community. I am not some outsider, I am Lancastrian first, English second. Nothing I like more than sending London clubs and their fans back down the motorway with nowt.

Someone explained the reason why the comments about 'getting back to India' are racist, I'm not going to repeat them.

[Kelbo]

I'm not sure about this, but I believe he didn't deny that the Venkys's unsuccessful management was one of the reasons why many fans hate them. He is just attributing racism as one of the reasons, and not the sole reason.

There was also a comment "No, not another Indian owner!" made by one poster when there was speculation that another Indian company might buy Blackburn Rovers from Venkys.

While admittedly Venkys do leave a lot to be desired in terms of handling our club, there will always be a slight tinge of racism by a select few minority present.

Racism is inevitable all around the world, not just Britain.

Unfortunately, opinions can be depicted as racism when indeed they are factual, I played Lancashire League cricket for 25 years, OK only four or five of those at first team level, yet enough for me to formulate opinions of players from different countries, if anyone on this MB follows league cricket or indeed has played, you will find the following my opinion but a general and honest guide to overseas proffessionals who ply their trade in our leagues,

West Indians, Flambouyant and when its going for them, brilliant, great in the dressing room and great mates.

Pakistanis, in it for the money and nothing else.

New Zealanders, the odd decent ones but never match winners

Indians, technically very correct but Maden Lal and Kapil Dev apart, no match winners.

South Africans, good players and a few will win you nlots of games, great attitude.

Australians, even the worst, born winners and so many of them are match winners, great mental attitude and with an Aussie pro, always a chance.

Now, thats not racism, its a real fact, yet many will depict that as being racist!

[Black Burn]

Unfortunately, opinions can be depicted as racism when indeed they are factual, I played Lancashire League cricket for 25 years, OK only four or five of those at first team level, yet enough for me to formulate opinions of players from different countries, if anyone on this MB follows league cricket or indeed has played, you will find the following my opinion but a general and honest guide to overseas proffessionals who ply their trade in our leagues,

West Indians, Flambouyant and when its going for them, brilliant, great in the dressing room and great mates.

Pakistanis, in it for the money and nothing else.

New Zealanders, the odd decent ones but never match winners

Indians, technically very correct but Maden Lal and Kapil Dev apart, no match winners.

South Africans, good players and a few will win you nlots of games, great attitude.

Australians, even the worst, born winners and so many of them are match winners, great mental attitude and with an Aussie pro, always a chance.

Now, thats not racism, its a real fact, yet many will depict that as being racist!

I could be mistaken, but it's only racist if it's an insult?

I thought "racism" has a negative connotation to it? Or am I wrong? Your comments seem "stereotypical" rather than "racist" in my opinion. In that you are pointing out the stereotypes largely perceived by others when viewing a certain country. But racist would be like "Only the Japanese would do something as weird as doing you know what with life-sized dolls".

Hope someone can clarify this. Thanks.

[rogerjonesgloves]

Unfortunately, opinions can be depicted as racism when indeed they are factual, I played Lancashire League cricket for 25 years, OK only four or five of those at first team level, yet enough for me to formulate opinions of players from different countries, if anyone on this MB follows league cricket or indeed has played, you will find the following my opinion but a general and honest guide to overseas proffessionals who ply their trade in our leagues,

West Indians, Flambouyant and when its going for them, brilliant, great in the dressing room and great mates.

Pakistanis, in it for the money and nothing else.

New Zealanders, the odd decent ones but never match winners

Indians, technically very correct but Maden Lal and Kapil Dev apart, no match winners.

South Africans, good players and a few will win you nlots of games, great attitude.

Australians, even the worst, born winners and so many of them are match winners, great mental attitude and with an Aussie pro, always a chance.

Now, thats not racism, its a real fact, yet many will depict that as being racist!

Not trying to jump on you here or call you racist but you have to be careful that you don't base an opinion on an individual by the above statements. Stereotyping is the root of much of the racism in society, especially where it is negative.

I realize people may think that I am being pedantic but it is easy to fall into traps. If interviewing a Pakistani cricketer for a professional contract and assuming that he won't contribute anything to coaching because he 'will only be in it for the money' would be unfair and discriminatory.

[rogerjonesgloves]

I could be mistaken, but it's only racist if it's an insult?

I thought "racism" has a negative connotation to it? Or am I wrong? Your comments seem "stereotypical" rather than "racist" in my opinion. In that you are pointing out the stereotypes largely perceived by others when viewing a certain country. But racist would be like "Only the Japanese would do something as weird as doing you know what with life-sized dolls".

Hope someone can clarify this. Thanks.

You could argue that any judgement by racial group is racist by definition. The very act of lumping everyone together as a race and making assumptions is potentially demeaning even if the actual statement is not derogatory. All English people like well done steak so that's what they will get in my restaurant, trivial not insulting but racist.

Judging people for what they are, not what racial group they belong to, is the way to go. You never know what another culture may find insulting.

I've obviously been on too many E & D courses.

[Glenn]

Ok, I'm going to go against normal policy and ask the mods NOT to tidy up this thread (so people can't accuse us of sweeping it under the carpet) but I've created a topic in Ask Admin to discuss racism, moderating, insults and other tangential issues, so from now on this thread goes back to the Indian Press and other stuff will be removed (well, hidden ).

[thenodrog]

Just a point here, in my opinion and speaking as someone who has coached lads up to semi pro level, how long do you think it would take to find an Indian player good enough to play Premiership Football?

When Herbert Metcalfe was the Chairman of Bradford City, he offered scouts a kings ransom to find a Pakistani footballer good enough to play in the first team, Bradford is extremely highly populated with lads of Pakistani descent and he knew they would put thousands on the gate if that were to happen, never did!!

In the UK, we have had Pakistani/Indian lads at league clubs junior/Youth level etc, playing a much higher standard than you will get in India and still fail to make it.

So to the question again, how long do you think it would take to find and Indian player good enough? I would say, even with the best coaching, 5 years minimum if at all!!

Bloody odd thing that when one considers that the combined population of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh is almost double the total population of Europe! Can only be some sort of genetic issue I'd imagine.

[thenodrog]

Hey roger.

First of all it will take more than 5 years. The main problem currently is this.

There are very talented kids in India, but the infrastructure is not in place to develop these talents.

But straightaway that raises the question that the infrastructure is good and well developed here yet there doesn't appear to be much headway being made with progressing kids of asian descent to the top.

[slough_rover]

Bloody odd thing that when one considers that the combined population of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh is almost double the total population of Europe! Can only be some sort of genetic issue I'd imagine.

Genetic issue? Once again your low views of people of ethnicity shine through. Of all the countries you have listed football is nowhere near the number one sport played in their respective country. From all of your posts its so clear that you thinm people of ethnic backgrounds are of lesser status. But yet again the admins show their ineptitude by letting you post this crap. If I were to go off topic I may get banned. But when Theno shows us what he thinks of a certain race a blind eye is turned.

[JoeBlueWhite]

Great thread. I can really see why the mods are keeping it open.

Between philipl bringing us the latest news that all successful Indian business people think Venky's are a joke. All the way to four wonderful posts by theno in a row.

This thread needs nuking from orbit.

[RovertheHill]

Bloody odd thing that when one considers that the combined population of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh is almost double the total population of Europe! Can only be some sort of genetic issue I'd imagine.

Erm, more likely because the most popular sports are cricket and hockey. Apparently we're rubbish at Kabbadi too.

But anyway, did a straw poll of my colleagues over from India and none of them support philips view.

[cruz]

As amazing as this racism discussion is can anyone point me to the examples of embarrassed top level companies Phillipl posted to back up his original post?

[Glenn]

Ok, it seems my post about continuing discussion of racism in another thread got completely ignored.

It's a shame as I've had to hide a number of quite sensible and well constructed posts (as well as some drivel).

... and to whoever it was that accused admin of ignoring a 2hr old post because of who made it. Sadly one Admin is in Hong Kong, the other trying to manage two companies (BRFCS is technically a third, I just don't get paid for it), so sadly I don't have time to sit and read every single post as it's added to the forum. I was only aware this thread had headed right back off topic when somebody hit the report button about 30 posts after the last one I'd seen whilst having my morning brew. You're looking for conspiracies where there aren't any.

[Black Burn]

Ok, it seems my post about continuing discussion of racism in another thread got completely ignored.

It's a shame as I've had to hide a number of quite sensible and well constructed posts (as well as some drivel).

... and to whoever it was that accused admin of ignoring a 2hr old post because of who made it. Sadly one Admin is in Hong Kong, the other trying to manage two companies (BRFCS is technically a third, I just don't get paid for it), so sadly I don't have time to sit and read every single post as it's added to the forum. I was only aware this thread had headed right back off topic when somebody hit the report button about 30 posts after the last one I'd seen whilst having my morning brew. You're looking for conspiracies where there aren't any.

Do you delete the entire post, or would it be better to delete just the irrelevant parts of the post?

I understand if you're too busy to read the whole thing or edit it, but I did leave a relevant paragraph or so in it with regards to the Indian press thing, but it still got deleted along with everything else.

[Glenn]

Do you delete the entire post, or would it be better to delete just the irrelevant parts of the post?

I understand if you're too busy to read the whole thing or edit it, but I did leave a relevant paragraph or so in it with regards to the Indian press thing, but it still got deleted along with everything else.

We choose not to, as the second we edit a post rather than hide it, it becomes our words rather than yours and yes, sadly a few poss there were mainly on topic did get hidden too.

yeah mate - delete mine and keep all the others that suit your agenda

c*nts

good luck for the season and the future of your great country

Meh, the only ones I kept were the ones that were on topic. No agenda. No interpretation needed.

In fact, I'd love to which agenda people here think I'm following.

If I wasn't doing this in what passes for a lunch hour, I'd probably have moved all the posts to the correct thread, I just simply haven't had the time yet. .... such is my agenda.

[Black Burn]

We choose not to, as the second we edit a post rather than hide it, it becomes our words rather than yours and yes, sadly a few poss there were mainly on topic did get hidden too.

Meh, the only ones I kept were the ones that were on topic. No agenda. No interpretation needed.

In fact, I'd love to which agenda people here think I'm following.

If I wasn't doing this in what passes for a lunch hour, I'd probably have moved all the posts to the correct thread, I just simply haven't had the time yet. .... such is my agenda.

Is there a way for me to edit it? Then I can simply remove all the irrelevant stuff.