[Archived] Reasons for Optimism

[Kelbo]

Kelbo, there's every chance that a decent start is on the cards if we play some of the new guys. Other teams won't know how they play and can't plan for that. Until they've seen a few games, they won't know what to expect.

It's after four or five games that I expect that any slump will come.

Yes we have some winnable fixtures to start, its October which frightens the life out of me, hence I said we must collect at least 6 points out of the first three or four games!!

As for not knowing what to expect, maybe, but if I were an opposing manager and I thought Rovers would go for the diamond shape, I would counter attack with loads of width!!

[imy9]

Yes but we are totally hamstrung in terms of not having the people behind the scenes we need to sign no risk solid PL performers.

Hanley, Rochina, Formica, Petrovic, Goodwillie are all unproven risks and the names in our transfer thread are mostly more of the same. We may laugh at Steve Bruce's signings but at least they know their way around the PL.

As I keep saying, we simply have to get lucky this season both in terms of players coming good and avoiding injuries. Just imagine if we had the same problems that Bolton Wanderers currently have with injuries- not even imy9 would be giving us a prayer of staying up.

You do throw up an interesting point Phillip, when was the last time we signed a "no risk solid PL performer"? Benjani? Chimbonda? Were they no risk? Did they perform at the PL level? I would say no to both of them. Sunderland who you highlight have signed two solid PL performers in O Shea and Brown but Gardener and Larsson came from a relegated team and have spent a large portion of their careers outside of the PL, Wickham has never played in the PL, Ji Dong Won?, Westwood etc, most of their players should not be classed as "solid PL performers" IMO.

I would always say that we would survive Phillip, but the scenario you mention could be applied to 12 teams in the PL this coming year and reading into what you say Bolton don't have a chance of surviving this year do they, so one less team to worry about

[philipl]

That is as stupidly an obtuse post you have made yet imy.

Bolton have greater strength in depth and a highly respected manager.

[imy9]

That is as stupidly an obtuse post you have made yet imy.

Bolton have greater strength in depth and a highly respected manager.

I am genuinely confused.

Are you saying that we would have signed "no risk PL players" with previous management? If so could I politely point to the vast majority of teams in the PL who are NOT signing those types of players- the team YOU highlighted Sunderland have not either have they?

The three promoted clubs have fewer "proven PL players" than us.

Our starting 11 next week WILL have enough proven quality.

Bolton finished where last season Phillip? Are they really good, they have lost Elmander and now two key players too.

[john.leigh]

That is as stupidly an obtuse post you have made yet imy.

Bolton have greater strength in depth and a highly respected manager.

Sorry but I just don't see their greater strength in depth, in fact if they have more depth then it is even more damning that they only just finished above us last season...

and a highly repected manager??

more like a manager living on his achievements in the Championship.

As we know Bumley were relegated after he abandoned ship half way through a season and Bolton had an awful back half of last season

The manner in which he left Bumley was hardly respectable either...

IMO Coyle is on a par with Ian Holloway - he was just fortunate that his ex club Bolton needed a manager when he reached his zenith

[XLM]

That is as stupidly an obtuse post you have made yet imy.

Bolton have greater strength in depth and a highly respected manager.

Bolton's squad is wafer thin and with Lee out for the season they could be in for a very long year. Plus they need a striker almost as badly as we do.

Oh and a manager highly respected by Nicko, they only finished 1 place above us last season.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

IMO Coyle is on a par with Ian Holloway

And yet 12 months ago both were being held up by many Rovers fans as shining examples of why you can succeed in the Premiership playing passing football with a small club and limited players, and why Allardyce was an awful manager for playing direct. End of the season, Holloway's side finish 19th, Coyle's 14th. Bodes well for Kean...

[tonyoz]

Yes but we are totally hamstrung in terms of not having the people behind the scenes we need to sign no risk solid PL performers.

Hanley, Rochina, Formica, Petrovic, Goodwillie are all unproven risks and the names in our transfer thread are mostly more of the same. We may laugh at Steve Bruce's signings but at least they know their way around the PL.

As I keep saying, we simply have to get lucky this season both in terms of players coming good and avoiding injuries. Just imagine if we had the same problems that Bolton Wanderers currently have with injuries- not even imy9 would be giving us a prayer of staying up.

I agree with this Philipl. It was one thing Sam was always clear about and I think he was right. We need a core of experienced pros..............and watching the Asia cup stuff, I think it is more important to have this experience in the back four. Do you remember when we drafted in Worthington to shore up the defence under Ince? Sam soon got rid of him and did the job himself!

[imy9]

I agree with this Philipl. It was one thing Sam was always clear about and I think he was right. We need a core of experienced pros..............and watching the Asia cup stuff, I think it is more important to have this experience in the back four. Do you remember when we drafted in Worthington to shore up the defence under Ince? Sam soon got rid of him and did the job himself!

Genuine question how many of those "solid PL pros" did we sign under Sam?

[True Blue & White]

Do you remember when we drafted in Worthington to shore up the defence under Ince? Sam soon got rid of him and did the job himself!

Do you mean Winterburn?

[tonyoz]

Genuine question how many of those "solid PL pros" did we sign under Sam?

Hmm I don't think they have to be PL pros necessarily. Salgado, Givet and Nelsen have done a great job. What i really mean is that I am more comfortable signing "raw potential" in the up-front players than in the core defence. den will probably blow me away here!

Do you mean Winterburn?

Oops! Senior moment - forgive me!

[imy9]

Hmm I don't think they have to be PL pros necessarily. Salgado, Givet and Nelsen have done a great job. What i really mean is that I am more comfortable signing "raw potential" in the up-front players than in the core defence. den will probably blow me away here!

Oops! Senior moment - forgive me!

All signings are risks, the only club signing solid pl players are Liverpool and those are ludicrous prices.

Goodwillie, Rochina and Formica are the sorts of players I want at the club as well as Petrovic, good technique, young and potential to improve.

I thought Coyle was the real deal but look at the facts and where his teams have finished, perception is different to the reality. Nice to see others share this view- more than just me Phillip lol!

[den]

Goodwillie, Rochina and Formica are the sorts of players I want at the club as well as Petrovic, good technique, young and potential to improve.

Wouldn't you like to see these lads in the PL before you give them the sign of approval, imy?

[RibbleValleyRover]

Wouldn't you like to see these lads in the PL before you give them the sign of approval, imy?

Ah but they cost more Den. Rovers just don't have the finances to buy proven Premier League players.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Nice to know most of our fans have totally forgotten about Villanueva when rating young, unproven playmakers coming from an inferior level and used to a totally different style of play.

[imy9]

Wouldn't you like to see these lads in the PL before you give them the sign of approval, imy?

Course Den, but these guys are our best chance, rather that then the alternative which is 30 plus has beens who are looking for a final pay day... I know Salgado has been great but there are not too many of those types around.

[Gav]

Wouldn't you like to see these lads in the PL before you give them the sign of approval, imy?

Are you advocating giving new arrivals at the club a chance den? Goodness me

[BlueMonday]

They've changed the phasing of the lights at the junction of Maxwellton/Canal St.

Some mornings I can be sat for 20 mins before I get through. Its a rush to get to work but it gives me more time

to listen to the radio and catch the news as well as listening to some relaxing music.

By the time I get to work I'm raring to go. My boss is pleased.

.

IMO this is idicative of the way things are since Venkys took over

SORTED !!

[Kelbo]

All signings are risks, the only club signing solid pl players are Liverpool and those are ludicrous prices.

Goodwillie, Rochina and Formica are the sorts of players I want at the club as well as Petrovic, good technique, young and potential to improve.

I thought Coyle was the real deal but look at the facts and where his teams have finished, perception is different to the reality.

Or maybe its total football which Coyle, Mowbrey, Holloway, Di Matteo believed in, good to watch but bloody awful when you are getting beaten regularly!!

To play the football Kean wants to play, in my opinion, you need far better players than we have at Rovers, look how long it took Wenger to get Arsenal to that stage and how did they look against Barca?

At our stage, we build from the back, keep things tight, get a winning mentality and play when we are in the ascendency, Barca can pass the ball in really tight situations, takes years to perfect that.

[jim mk2]

Venky's have obviously had a word in the ear of MS Dhoni, India cricket captain, not to try too hard in the present Test series in England. I look forward with optimism to our owners having a similar influence over Rovers' matches this season. A slush fund financed by the sale of Chris Samba that finds its way into referees' backpockets should do the trick.

[CrazyIvan]

Venky's have obviously had a word in the ear of MS Dhoni, India cricket captain, not to try too hard in the present Test series in England. I look forward with optimism to our owners having a similar influence over Rovers' matches this season. A slush fund financed by the sale of Chris Samba that finds its way into referees' backpockets should do the trick.

Lol, well done Jim, that made me laugh

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Or maybe its total football which Coyle, Mowbrey, Holloway, Di Matteo believed in, good to watch but bloody awful when you are getting beaten regularly!!

Exactly. How many times did the Allardyce critics bang on about playing passing football and how wonderful it is with Holloway and Coyle taking the league by storm? Once you actually give it a season you realise it isn't wonderful, doesn't work and long-ball (or at least some long-ball) is necessary for a club of Rovers size.

The problem with playing good football is it absolutely reflects whether or not you have good footballers. If you don't, you won't win, its as simple as that and no managerial brilliance will change it. Which of our players are totally accomplished and confident with the ball at their feet at the pace of the PL, and have the movement and skill to pass through teams? Dunn when he was fit, Pedersen when he was good, Hoilett. Thats it.

Personally I hope Kean totally ignores the football purists and plays the kind of stuff that got us our 2nd and 3rd goals against Wolves. Mind you there doesn't seem to be constant complaining when Kean does it. Weird that, maybe its cause the media have spent years telling everyone one manager tries to play one way and one tries to play the other, when in reality they both play pretty much the same but with differing degrees of success.

[Mattyblue]

I've been saying just that for years toady, alas ,some posters just won't have it.

[jim mk2]

Personally I hope Kean totally ignores the football purists and plays the kind of stuff that got us our 2nd and 3rd goals against Wolves. Mind you there doesn't seem to be constant complaining when Kean does it.

Those goals and the general change of style of play under Kean was noted at the end of last season. "Hoofball" I believe it was called under the previous manager. I'm optimistic that Kean has learnt his lessons from last season and will continue to adopt the style of play that was so successful under Sam. I'm also optimistic that were Kean to stick with that long ball style, Rovers will avoid relegation.

[imy9]

Forget the goals for a second, our general play was far more pass and move than hoof ball under Kean. Now with the likes of Formica, Rochina, Goodwillie, Petrovic and others we have players who should be technically good enough to play a better standard of football.

Under Sam end of season we played a better style of football which was mixed, that's all I want, a variety not EVERY ball hit aimlessly into the box because stats showed that if you hit 20 random balls into the box then you'll eventually score ax goal...