[Archived] Allardyce on Kean and Venky's

[yeti-dog]

I was never a Sam hater,but if I'm honest I'm glad he's gone.

I'll always be grateful to him for keeping us up but if you're after a manager to move you to the next level he's simply not your man..not that I'm suggesting Kean is-he'll either sink or swim after the first period of this season but that's another argument.

I'm also no lover of the term 'hoofball'but it does seem to me unarguable that his football can best be described as industrial and functional. I deplore the entire concept of 'percentage football' it reduces what should be an instinctive,flowing game to something no better than a mathematical equation. Some of the performances I saw were pitiful,if not embarrassing.

So,to sum up: thanks for the memories.I bear you no ill-will but can't wish you well at the horrible little club you've landed at.....

[MarkBRFC71]

  On 08/08/2011 at 15:48, John said:

In relation to results, it was a successful period for the club with him in charge, he did extremely well with minimal financial resources – when someone does well for their club, either as a player or manager, most fans will look back fondly.

Except the fans who had to endure - and that is the most apt word - Rovers week in week out under his stewardship. Going to Ewood under Sam was a chore, something you felt you *had* to do rather than something you knew you were going to enjoy. His reign is the only time since 1982 that I've ever given thought to not getting a season ticket - it was awful, dire, dull stuff to watch results notwithstanding. Understandable when we're fighting relegation (as we were when he took over from the Ince debacle), not acceptable to play that negatively when we've got a clean slate and start on 0 points like everyone else.

I think almost all the fans I know personally don't look back on his time with much fondness at all - more like a necessary evil at first, then as nothing more than 'meh'. In summary, he did very well in keeping us up, did reasonably well (and enjoyed a fair bit of luck) in getting us to 10th, but had begun to stagnate at the start of this season. Still don't buy the money angle though - yes he lost Roque, but he was nothing like a £17m player when he left, and he plain wasted £6m on Niko - unforgiveable to sign someone he clearly had never seen play and would never fit his system. Textbook panic buy.

[John]

  On 08/08/2011 at 18:08, MarkBRFC71 said:

Except the fans who had to endure - and that is the most apt word - Rovers week in week out under his stewardship. Going to Ewood under Sam was a chore, something you felt you *had* to do rather than something you knew you were going to enjoy. His reign is the only time since 1982 that I've ever given thought to not getting a season ticket - it was awful, dire, dull stuff to watch results notwithstanding. Understandable when we're fighting relegation (as we were when he took over from the Ince debacle), not acceptable to play that negatively when we've got a clean slate and start on 0 points like

Under Sam, I probably went to around 60% of the home games and many more of the away games (when we barely picked up any results) and personally did not find it as bad as some state (even though everyone is entitled to their view).

In fact, I can't remember feeling as satisfied after beating Arsenal at home at the end of the season before last, was beaming after it - bank holiday game I think. Really need to bear in mind, in comparative terms, we had tiny financial resources and had to continually sell our better players.

[K-Hod]

  On 08/08/2011 at 16:54, Steve Moss said:

Who?

Steve, you've been posting on here a while, you're better than that!

[Eddie]

  On 08/08/2011 at 18:20, John said:

In fact, I can't remember feeling as satisfied after beating Arsenal at home at the end of the season before last, was beaming after it - bank holiday game I think. Really need to bear in mind, in comparative terms, we had tiny financial resources and had to continually sell our better players.

That has been the case for several years and for several other clubs in the league at various times, it isn't really an excuse. He would play boring football even if you gave him £100m to spend (just look what he did at Newcastle).

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

  On 08/08/2011 at 19:53, Eddie said:

That has been the case for several years and for several other clubs in the league at various times, it isn't really an excuse. He would play boring football even if you gave him £100m to spend (just look what he did at Newcastle).

I seriously doubt many managers have had the financial constraints Allardyce had at Rovers. People seem to severly underestimate how little this club makes, they put us in the same bracket as the likes of Bolton/Wolves/Birmingham etc. We're nowhere near that, all those mid-table to bottom half smallish clubs charge about double what we do for season tickets, so they roughly double our ticket income (about an extra £5m per season, which will start adding up), plus they generally have bigger fanbases as they're from much bigger towns/cities so will outstrip us in merchandise/sponsorship revenue. I'd be shocked if Rovers aren't one of the 3 poorest clubs in this league every season, including promoted teams.

So a very vulnerable starting point for any Rovers manager since Jack's money stopped (effectively our managers after Souness), then add to that that since Hughes left The Walker Trust has been bleeding the club dry by recouping as much of their money as possible before selling. In Allardyce's first full season our transfer ins/outs came to a total of -£18m. You take £18m out of any club that has been running on a smaller budget than 90% of the league for a number of years, and that was nearly relegated the season before, and where would you expect it to finish? Not flipping 10th thats for sure! It was a staggering achievement all things considered. But nope that aint good enough, its gotta be staggering and pretty, such are the unrealistic demands of some of our fans.

[Stuart]

That's a big part of the reason why Venkys get so much stick. They came in and made statements which allowed fans to believe those days were over.

Yet we seem, if anything, to have become even poorer...

[Tris]

  On 08/08/2011 at 18:20, John said:

Under Sam, I probably went to around 60% of the home games and many more of the away games (when we barely picked up any results) and personally did not find it as bad as some state (even though everyone is entitled to their view).

In fact, I can't remember feeling as satisfied after beating Arsenal at home at the end of the season before last, was beaming after it - bank holiday game I think. Really need to bear in mind, in comparative terms, we had tiny financial resources and had to continually sell our better players.

John, I've met you after 4 or 5 games now, and you've been "beaming" after every single one of them ... and that has had absolutely nothing to do with the football or the result.

In fact there's one famous post-Arsenal occasion in the Drayton Park when you couldn't speak or stand up. Totally beaming you were.

[Steve Moss]

  On 08/08/2011 at 18:25, K-Hod said:

Steve, you've been posting on here a while, you're better than that!

K-Hod, that's exactly why I questioned you. I don't recall a single Sam supporter being in favor of "meekly" rolling over. There have been some who have voiced their support for his defensive away tactics, but attempting to snatch a point via solid defense is not the equivalent of meekly rolling over.

I, and just about every other supporter, was raging after the 7-1 ManU performance. It was inexplicable and was defintely Sam's low point. Put rather than characterize it as an intentionaly "meek" roll over, I think it is more accurately characterized as a catastrophic miscalculation. But those will happen over the course of a 700 plus career as a football manager. Doesn't excuse it, but it does explain it.

[Tony Diamond Inc]

Well just to throw my 3 Euros in...

I don't hate Sam, I hated him at my club. He has left a stain that even the most exceptional managers would take time to remove (metaphorically speaking).

Being someone who has watched Rovers since 1975, I learnt to hope, and sometimes I was rewarded.

Sam removed the hope, and replaced it with dour drizzle. My last remaining hope was that someone would come in and save us from the constant tedium. The it happened - all hail Venkeys (well for that one act at least!)

Here are some interesting facts...

My club was dull, then Sam went. Now it is shiny and new.

I am extremely biased, but aren't we all?

C'mon lets hug, cos it's all better now

[Steve Moss]

  On 08/08/2011 at 23:04, Tony Diamond Inc said:

C'mon lets hug, cos it's all better now

Based on last season it is not all better. It is worse.

Hopefully this season will be better, but the jury is still out on that one.

[waggy]

footballs about results was the lardarse brigades defence of his brand of togger,how did the hammers do on sunday

[patrickvalery]

  On 06/08/2011 at 10:20, thenodrog said:

Gav how naive are you? You really must try to think things through more instead of taking everything at face value.

1. Allardyce like most public figures will be paid for interviews.

and

2. Cultivating good links and contacts within the press and media is a massive plus in his line of work. To help him in his career it's wise to have the press/media on his side not against him.

Gordon, you seem quite happy for Allardyce to be doing so well. Even though he is cultivating good press links, as you put it, to the detriment of our football club.

We can all have a pretty good guess at what happened with our beloved Sam. All the evidence points to the fact he got shafted. It shouldn't have happened but it did. He did a sterling job while in charge at Rovers. I liked the mans stature and authority. He commanded respect and a listening audience. However, he also talks a load of old rollocks at times too. Vibrant football Club? Pish. I've never seen such a sterile looking Rovers team. Not even much heart. Just well rehearsed passages of play over and over and over and over.........

He was as stuborn as a mule with tactics and point blank refused to accept any other way of tackling a problem. This is an admirable trait if you're principles are more often than not the correct ones. However, i fear Sam maybe coming unstuck. The game is changing and people are demanding a level of entertainment. I don't care how many times he says he can play different ways, adapting to suit players strengths etc... HE CAN'T. He will always revert to his tried and tested percentage football. He signs players he knows can play his percentage football and he takes jobs where he knows his football will be tolerated due to circumstance.

As a manager at Rovers i had no issue with him. I had accepted it wasn't going to be pretty and got on with it with minimal gripes. However, I wish the bloke would just shut the F@*k up about the whole thing. He has the opportunity to gain the upper hand on our owners, by showing a level of dignity they didn't afford him. I hope next time he gets asked the question he politely refuses to answer the question.

[Mattyblue]

  On 09/08/2011 at 04:08, waggy said:

footballs about results was the lardarse brigades defence of his brand of togger,how did the hammers do on sunday

Who cares? Great manager for us, but as I can't stick West Ham he can be sacked by Xmas for me.

Rovers fan, not Allardyce fan- not sure his haters get that point.

[Gav]

  On 08/08/2011 at 18:08, MarkBRFC71 said:

Except the fans who had to endure - and that is the most apt word - Rovers week in week out under his stewardship. Going to Ewood under Sam was a chore, something you felt you *had* to do rather than something you knew you were going to enjoy. His reign is the only time since 1982 that I've ever given thought to not getting a season ticket - it was awful, dire, dull stuff to watch results notwithstanding. Understandable when we're fighting relegation (as we were when he took over from the Ince debacle), not acceptable to play that negatively when we've got a clean slate and start on 0 points like everyone else.

I think almost all the fans I know personally don't look back on his time with much fondness at all - more like a necessary evil at first, then as nothing more than 'meh'. In summary, he did very well in keeping us up, did reasonably well (and enjoyed a fair bit of luck) in getting us to 10th, but had begun to stagnate at the start of this season. Still don't buy the money angle though - yes he lost Roque, but he was nothing like a £17m player when he left, and he plain wasted £6m on Niko - unforgiveable to sign someone he clearly had never seen play and would never fit his system. Textbook panic buy.

Spot on

  On 09/08/2011 at 06:46, Mattyblue said:

Who cares? Great manager for us, but as I can't stick West Ham he can be sacked by Xmas for me.

Rovers fan, not Allardyce fan- not sure his haters get that point.

[alexanders]

Sam Anti Climax

Ninety minutes into their season and the Hammers are still to get off the mark. Beaten 1-0 at home by Cardiff City, Allardyce's team dominated possession but were as blunt as a spoon in attack. And as their underwhelmed fans filed forlornly out of Upton Park, it was left to a morose Big Sam to capture their mood in one of the most depressing post-match interview you're likely to hear this season.

"Nobody's more miserable than me. I won't be sleeping tonight and I will probably be watching the game when I get back home," he said. "We're gutted because of our performance in terms of chances created and not converted. We had 14; they had three. Professional football then kicks you right where it hurts sometimes and today was exactly that ... "

Allardyce was a little off the mark with his stats. Cardiff actually had 13 attempts on goal, but nonetheless most agreed West Ham were victims of their own profligacy. Big Sam will be hoping new signing John Carew can add a cutting thrust to his operation, and praying Scott Parker's wage demands are off-putting enough to ensure he stays in the Championship.

Just saying.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

1 Southampton 3 6 9

2 Middlesbrough 3 3 7

3 West Ham 3 4 6

4 Cardiff 2 3 6

5 Crystal Palace 3 2 6

6 Blackpool 2 2 6

7 Brighton 2 2 6

8 Derby 2 2 6

9 Millwall 2 2 4

10 Reading 3 1 4

11 Portsmouth 3 0 4

12 Nott'm Forest 3 -1 4

13 Leeds 3 0 3

14 Peterborough 2 0 3

15 Birmingham 2 0 3

16 Ipswich 3 -1 3

17 Leicester 2 -1 3

18 Hull 3 -3 3

19 Burnley 2 -2 1

20 Barnsley 3 -3 1

21 Watford 3 -5 1

22 Coventry 3 -3 0

23 Doncaster 3 -3 0

24 Bristol City 2 -5 0

Just saying.

[sambo]

To be fair, if he can't get a West Ham side promoted who were able to splash out on Premier League players like Matt Taylor, Faye and Nolan, whilst also keeping players like Scott Parker and Carlton Cole, then he must take a long, hard look in the mirror. Their squad is far too good for the Championship, and only needed a bit of organisation to be half decent.

Not criticising Sam, but Wham should be a walk in the park this season regardless of manager.

[John]

The West Ham squad has shown they can't perform on a consistent basis - always like the look of Carlton Cole in some matches then in others, he does not look interested.

[Mattyblue]

This thread will be a laugh (not).

West Ham win:

'top manager, he'll prove it this season'.

'pfft I could get that squad up'.

West Ham lose:

'it's a long season'.

'Real Madrid? Do me a favour

And so on and so on.

[alexanders]

Nice win for Sam last night!

Impressive 0-4 away.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

  On 17/08/2011 at 08:18, Mattyblue said:

This thread will be a laugh (not).

West Ham win:

'top manager, he'll prove it this season'.

'pfft I could get that squad up'.

West Ham lose:

'it's a long season'.

'Real Madrid? Do me a favour

And so on and so on.

Yeah had a feeling it was a bad idea raking it up. Just figured after 4 pages of gleeful criticism from the haters for 1 defeat, he deserved at least one comment for then winning 2 away on the bounce.

[tony gale's mic]

Surprise surprise West Ham were playing some very nice football last night too.

TBH I don't think it's that surprising really but illustrates the point that if Sam is given resources and money to spend then he too isn't opposed to playing it along the deck at all.

If he's given limited resources, then he'll use a style of play which will achieve maximum results with the team at his disposal. Entirely justified.

[Amo]

  On 17/08/2011 at 10:00, tony gale said:

Surprise surprise West Ham were playing some very nice football last night too.

TBH I don't think it's that surprising really but illustrates the point that if Sam is given resources and money to spend then he too isn't opposed to playing it along the deck at all.

If he's given limited resources, then he'll use a style of play which will achieve maximum results with the team at his disposal. Entirely justified.

Should think so, too. He has the most expensive squad in the division. Something of a back-handed compliment there, Tone.

[Tom]

  On 17/08/2011 at 08:18, Mattyblue said:

This thread will be a laugh (not).

West Ham win:

'top manager, he'll prove it this season'.

'pfft I could get that squad up'.

West Ham lose:

'it's a long season'.

'Real Madrid? Do me a favour

And so on and so on.

Spot on mate, and for that reason I don't see any merit in keeping it open.

For better or worse we have to move on.