[Archived] Allardyce on Kean and Venky's

[thenodrog]

But we can influence the future. A new season is dawning. The club and the lads need your support.

I agree..... whether they deserve it though is another matter entirely.

[Mattyblue]

I've said everything I need to say on this topic, however those who are posting 'not this agsin', 'can we not move on?'

we have moved on, but this is a thread discussing Allardyces recent comments on Kean and Venky's- it says so on the thread title- you don't care? Then don't post!

[True Blue & White]

His return to the Premier League has merely been postponed for twelve months. He'll be back, with a score to settile and he has an outstanding record against his old clubs.

West Ham aren't even favourites in the Championship.

As football mangers come, Sam is as straight as a dye

Straight as a die you mean.

[Mercer]

Straight as a die you mean.

This might help you:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/15/messages/286.html

[onlyonejackwalker]

Nothing to stop clubs sacking their managers and hiring Allardyce, if he's truly the bee's knees.

Allardyce said himself he was disappointed to receive no interest from the vacant clubs in the summer. You have to ask yourself why he wasn't in the running. Not only last summer but before *we* hired him, as well. Seems strange that such a successful and proven manager would be so unpopular. That was the point I made to Drog about Sam and his media contacts, before you decided to jump in.

Two former England managers are now in the Championship. It does not mean they are crap. There are only so many teams for all ex-managers to apply for and many of these jobs have long-established employees at the helm.

It is a shame that SA generates so much interest across all Rovers boards. The reason being many months on, is that we employed a complete moron, plank and no-mark to replace him. If we had employed someone with some history, quality and ability then he would rarely get mentioned now, but with the present idiot / non entity / fool in charge of the club many remember back to days gone by.

[den]

Nothing to stop clubs sacking their managers and hiring Allardyce, if he's truly the bee's knees.

Most clubs don't sack successful managers Toppers.

Oh, ah, wait.........

I think the fact that certain members who could have been named beforehand, rather than acknowledge what a cock up all of this has been, still attack Allardyce with venom - even though he's the innocent party here.

They need to take a step back, get rid of the personal hatred - and understand what's happening to our club.

[True Blue & White]

This might help you:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/15/messages/286.html

Yeah away from their 'discussion forum', on their official site they disagree....

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/as-straight-as-a-die.html

Meaning

Completely straight.

Origin

This is an odd simile when one considers that the die here is the singular of dice - hardly objects that appear straight. It makes more sense when we realize that straight means correct and true, rather than 'as the crow flies'.

The phrase originated as 'as smooth as a die', no doubt referring to the smoothness of the bone that dice were made from. This dates back to at least the 16th century. For example, Jehan Palsgrave's Lesclarcissement de la langue françoyse, 1530:

"Make this borde as smothe as a dyce"

It migrated to 'as true as a die' in the 18th century, as found in John Gay's Songs & Ball., New Song on New Similies, 1732:

"You'll know me truer than a die."

By the 19th century it had become as we know it now - 'as straight as a die. The first known record of that form comes from the USA, in The Janesville Gazette, April 1871:

"I'm a racing man and up to a thing or two: but am as straight as a die for honesty."

Despite their reputation for smooth/true/straightness, dice weren't always straight. Modern dice are now almost always made so that the opposite faces add up to seven and of a material that is of even density throughout. Some earlier 'crooked' dice (or as they would have been then called, dies) were weighted to favour particular numbers or may have had more than one face that showed the same number.

See also - the die has been cast.

See other 'as xxx as yyy' phrases.

Google hits for "straight as a die" = 517,000

Google hits for "straight as a dye" = 50,400

It's die mate, Straight as a 'dye' doesn't even make sense.

[Amo]

Two former England managers are now in the Championship. It does not mean they are crap. There are only so many teams for all ex-managers to apply for and many of these jobs have long-established employees at the helm.

I never questioned his ability. I wish people would learn to follow a simple conversation on this forum.

Drog was saying that it pays for Sam to keep himself in the media spotlight and establish contacts, but those contacts didn't do much for him, if he had to join a Championship club. You have to ask yourself why? Financial demands? Unpopular style of football?

[Al]

This might help you:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/15/messages/286.html

The same site that you use also shows 'Straight as a die' as in Dice and that IS the popular way to spell it.

[onlyonejackwalker]

I never questioned his ability. I wish people would learn to follow a simple conversation on this forum.

Your quote - "Nothing to stop clubs sacking their managers and hiring Allardyce, if he's truly the bee's knees"

I guess I should have asked what you meant by bees knees if not suggesting that he is a superstar manager. Plainly put, that is why people don't follow simple conversations easily, when the simpleton writing is abstract but fails to realise.

Drog was saying that it pays for Sam to keep himself in the media spotlight and establish contacts, but those contacts didn't do much for him, if he had to join a Championship club. You have to ask yourself why? Financial demands? Unpopular style of football?

Heard the phrase two steps back to go three steps forward? Ask yourself why Dalglish joined Rovers in the Championship and you may find the simple answer yourself.

[Kelbo]

I never questioned his ability. I wish people would learn to follow a simple conversation on this forum.

Drog was saying that it pays for Sam to keep himself in the media spotlight and establish contacts, but those contacts didn't do much for him, if he had to join a Championship club. You have to ask yourself why? Financial demands? Unpopular style of football?

I think you should have watched Savage and Lawrenson on Television today, you may have to re assessthis post.

Then the Allardyce interview when he was asked about the style of football people associated him with, his answer was really common sense, he asked Garth Crooks who were the best two footballing sides to watch in the prem, Arsenal and Spurs came the reply, why do you think that is asked Allardyce, simple, because they both have real quality footballers!!

Likewise Allardyce said, if we keep hold of Parker, Cole and Green etc. we will play football as we have the best players to compete, if you havent those players, you compete with what you have got!!

Interesting, yet pure common sense.

[dave birch]

I think you should have watched Savage and Lawrenson on Television today, you may have to re assessthis post.

Then the Allardyce interview when he was asked about the style of football people associated him with, his answer was really common sense, he asked Garth Crooks who were the best two footballing sides to watch in the prem, Arsenal and Spurs came the reply, why do you think that is asked Allardyce, simple, because they both have real quality footballers!!

Likewise Allardyce said, if we keep hold of Parker, Cole and Green etc. we will play football as we have the best players to compete, if you havent those players, you compete with what you have got!!

Interesting, yet pure common sense.

As with Souness and the willy he had to wee with.

[Gav]

Then the Allardyce interview when he was asked about the style of football people associated him with, his answer was really common sense, he asked Garth Crooks who were the best two footballing sides to watch in the prem, Arsenal and Spurs came the reply, why do you think that is asked Allardyce, simple, because they both have real quality footballers!!

Likewise Allardyce said, if we keep hold of Parker, Cole and Green etc. we will play football as we have the best players to compete, if you havent those players, you compete with what you have got!!

Interesting, yet pure common sense.

Try telling the Newcastle fans that Kelbo, he blew their budget out of the water, and played the same way he'd always played, but with more supposedly talented players, out of there natural positions

[XLM]

Likewise Allardyce said, if we keep hold of Parker, Cole and Green etc. we will play football as we have the best players to compete, if you havent those players, you compete with what you have got!!

Interesting, yet pure common sense.

Yeah, he said the same when he took over at Rovers. No matter who stays at West Ham they'll still play the same percentage football. No doubt.

And how can people stomach the man? He made Blackburn Rovers interesting? He did great things for our club? It makes me feel physically sick.

[Andy]

I think you should have watched Savage and Lawrenson on Television today, you may have to re assessthis post.

Then the Allardyce interview when he was asked about the style of football people associated him with, his answer was really common sense, he asked Garth Crooks who were the best two footballing sides to watch in the prem, Arsenal and Spurs came the reply, why do you think that is asked Allardyce, simple, because they both have real quality footballers!!

Likewise Allardyce said, if we keep hold of Parker, Cole and Green etc. we will play football as we have the best players to compete, if you havent those players, you compete with what you have got!!

Interesting, yet pure common sense.

Exactly, it's common sense and why I have always been a Sam fan - he manages his teams based on the talent he has to hand, with a view of getting the best results out of them.

It's good management.

[Amo]

I think you should have watched Savage and Lawrenson on Television today, you may have to re assessthis post.

Then the Allardyce interview when he was asked about the style of football people associated him with, his answer was really common sense, he asked Garth Crooks who were the best two footballing sides to watch in the prem, Arsenal and Spurs came the reply, why do you think that is asked Allardyce, simple, because they both have real quality footballers!!

Likewise Allardyce said, if we keep hold of Parker, Cole and Green etc. we will play football as we have the best players to compete, if you havent those players, you compete with what you have got!!

Interesting, yet pure common sense.

What does that have to do with what I said?

If this is pure common sense, how come the only PL club to employ him since he left Newcastle was one on the brink of relegation? That's my question, pure and simple. So you can regurgitate the same old platitudes as much as you want. It's not relevant to my point.

Ah, flagged down already for posting a simple fact. The Big Sam love-in really is getting boring.

[John]

Try telling the Newcastle fans that Kelbo, he blew their budget out of the water, and played the same way he'd always played, but with more supposedly talented players, out of there natural positions

And yet in the season they sacked him, Newcastle had one of their best starts to a season ever (under Allardyces management) and got relegated following sacking him.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

As many have protested from day one,the whole episode stinks to high heaven.People in positions at BRFC were stabbed in the back and that includes 'Mr Blackburn' John Williams.Done over by 'outsiders' looking after self interests and personal profit,the gagging of those dismissed leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

Yes,there is nothing we can do now but for me its a sad and dark episode in this proud clubs history....our very own night of the long knives indeed.

[Tony Diamond Inc]

Whatever happens, you will never take away that feeling of pure delight when I heard the news in December

[Kelbo]

What does that have to do with what I said?

If this is pure common sense, how come the only PL club to employ him since he left Newcastle was one on the brink of relegation? That's my question, pure and simple. So you can regurgitate the same old platitudes as much as you want. It's not relevant to my point.

Ah, flagged down already for posting a simple fact. The Big Sam love-in really is getting boring.

Read again Topman, if you were at school and you didnt read the question or answer it correctly in an exam, you would most certaily be down marked, likewise you are down marked for your reply. He didnt leave Newcastle on the brink of relegation at all, in fact they were mid table when he was fired, again after new owner Ashley came in.

As for stating a single fact, change that to innaccurracy.

Further to that, if you read my post again, I am stating what Savage, Lawrenson and Crooks reported!!!

[MarkBRFC71]

And yet in the season they sacked him, Newcastle had one of their best starts to a season ever (under Allardyces management) and got relegated following sacking him.

Got relegated the season *after* they sacked him. Which only proves they managed to find someone even more out of his depth at a "big" club.

While we're on the subject of Sam, saw this interview (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jul/30/sam-allardyce-west-ham) in the Guardian last week. The loveable old egomaniac himself nicely puts to bed that the embarrassing nonsense he spouted about Real Madrid etc wasn't tongue-in-cheek - he actually, seriously meant it ..... "I've said a lot of things over the years that people laugh at and I find them very insulting for making a joke about it or laughing at how I could be a manager of any club, anywhere and deal with it. I still feel like I can walk into any club, anywhere, any time and deliver. It's a bit like a CEO, isn't it? You can take up a position in any industry and if you're a good CEO, you can make that company profitable. You put me in a football environment anywhere in the world and I can deliver the module. I can modify the module for the particular culture and the way of playing."

This part made me cringe even more though: "How far can we go? That depends on how much the owners want to back the dream to turn it into reality," he says. "That's what I've done and that's what I do. I turn dreams into reality." Good God almighty.

[Amo]

Read again Topman, if you were at school and you didnt read the question or answer it correctly in an exam, you would most certaily be down marked, likewise you are down marked for your reply. He didnt leave Newcastle on the brink of relegation at all, in fact they were mid table when he was fired, again after new owner Ashley came in.

You obviously didn't read my post properly. I said the only club to hire Sam AFTER he left Newcastle were a club on the brink of relegation (i.e. BLACKBURN ROVERS!). We needed him when we wanted dragging out of the ######. Before that, Williams was more interested in the Shearers & Paul Inces of this world to take Rovers forward. So how come, if Sam is such a great manager, no big club has moved for him between both spells of unemployment? That's the point I was making to 'Drog regarding Sam's media contacts.

You simply posted a strawman argument which had no relevance to what I was saying, earning you a few cheap brownie points.

This isn't actually an attack on Allardyce (which is why so many are getting their tighty whities in a bunch). I'm simply illustrating that for some reason Sam is not a popular manager, and there must be a reason for that.

[Kelbo]

You obviously didn't read my post properly. I said the only club to hire Sam AFTER he left Newcastle were a club on the brink of relegation (i.e. BLACKBURN ROVERS!). We needed him when we wanted dragging out of the ######. Before that, Williams was more interested in the Shearers & Paul Inces of this world to take Rovers forward. So how come, if Sam is such a great manager, no big club has moved for him between both spells of unemployment? That's the point I was making to 'Drog regarding Sam's media contacts.

You simply posted a strawman argument which had no relevance to what I was saying, earning you a few cheap brownie points.

This is the part of your post I was replying to quote 'You have to ask yourself why? Financial demands? Unpopular style of football?'

unquote

So, I responded with what Professionals had commented on this lunchtime on T/V

[Amo]

This is the part of your post I was replying to quote 'You have to ask yourself why? Financial demands? Unpopular style of football?'

unquote

Are you telling me his style isn't unpopular? It doesn't matter what a few pundits say, Sam's style of football is largely frowned upon by the footballing world. There has to be some reason a big club hasn't hired Sam, if he's as great as you (and the man himself) claim him to be.

[MarkBRFC71]

Are you telling me his style isn't unpopular? It doesn't matter what a few pundits say, Sam's style of football is largely frowned upon by the footballing world. There has to be some reason a big club hasn't hired Sam, if he's as great as you (and the man himself) claim him to be.

There's a simple yardstick here .... any manager worth his salt would comfortably win The Championship with West Ham's squad. Will Sam? I'm not convinced.