[Archived] Rovers vs Killie.

[jim mk2]

I thought today showed just how much we need Salgado, Samba and Nelsen in our defence. Givet looks better at full-back, Olsson is better on the left-wing and Samba and Nelsen are undoubtedly are our best two centre-backs.

Rovers need to keep Samba this window because a defence of Salgado / Nelsen / Givet / Olsson is not good enough for the Premier League. Even if we manage to retain Samba we need to sign another central defender because Nelsen is ageing and slowing and won't be able to play every game while Hanley needs time to develop.

[alexanders]

How did Formica / Rochina do ?

[Parsonblue]

Could someone please post the formation we played, thanks.

Started with

Robinson; Emerton, Hanley, Givet, Olsson; Hoilett, Dunn, Nzonzi, Pedersen; Formica; Roberts.

We struggled when Killie ran at us as our midfield, with the exception of Nzonzi, didn't seem able to pick up and stay with their runners. Their two wingers caused huge problems and our back four seemed very square at times. On numerous occasions Kille played simply balls between our full-backs and centre-backs and they seemed to get runners on the end of them totally unmarked. If they had been able to finish the chances they created they would have had a field day. We badly need another defensive midfielder alongside Nzonzi, in the second half he was virtually having to hold the midfield on his own. Dunn started brightly and faded in the second half, as did Hoilett. Pedersen had a nightmare from start to finish.

[Majiball]

Started with

Robinson; Emerton, Hanley, Givet, Olsson; Hoilett, Dunn, Nzonzi, Pedersen; Formica; Roberts.

We struggled when Killie ran at us as our midfield, with the exception of Nzonzi, didn't seem able to pick up and stay with their runners. Their two wingers caused huge problems and our back four seemed very square at times. On numerous occasions Kille played simply balls between our full-backs and centre-backs and they seemed to get runners on the end of them totally unmarked. If they had been able to finish the chances they created they would have had a field day. We badly need another defensive midfielder alongside Nzonzi, in the second half he was virtually having to hold the midfield on his own. Dunn started brightly and faded in the second half, as did Hoilett. Pedersen had a nightmare from start to finish.

Thanks Parsonblue, so we set out 4-4-1-1 I assume. Killie have a top coach/manager in Kenny Shields, but working the channels is basic stuff and if we are getting badly exposed in that department, I wonder what a better team will do to us. Although with Samba back in and another more defensive midfielder that might alleviate said issue.

When you say faded did they seem fatigued? or did they stop playing? Not being funny but if we are doing triple sessions and uping the fitness work then fading is something I wouldn't expect to see. The EPL is far more intense than the SPL, so I hope we can step up on Saturday.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Started with

Robinson; Emerton, Hanley, Givet, Olsson; Hoilett, Dunn, Nzonzi, Pedersen; Formica; Roberts.

We struggled when Killie ran at us as our midfield, with the exception of Nzonzi, didn't seem able to pick up and stay with their runners. Their two wingers caused huge problems and our back four seemed very square at times. On numerous occasions Kille played simply balls between our full-backs and centre-backs and they seemed to get runners on the end of them totally unmarked. If they had been able to finish the chances they created they would have had a field day. We badly need another defensive midfielder alongside Nzonzi, in the second half he was virtually having to hold the midfield on his own. Dunn started brightly and faded in the second half, as did Hoilett. Pedersen had a nightmare from start to finish.

I didn't watch the game but when I had seen our team selection I thought we would struggle in midfield, looks like my concerns were correct going off your match report. N'zonzi is the only player we have capable of playing in a central midfield role, (Lowe maybe in the future).

[jim mk2]

Thanks Parsonblue, so we set out 4-4-1-1 I assume. Killie have a top coach/manager in Kenny Shields, but working the channels is basic stuff and if we are getting badly exposed in that department, I wonder what a better team will do to us. Although with Samba back in and another more defensive midfielder that might alleviate said issue.

When you say faded did they seem fatigued? or did they stop playing? Not being funny but if we are doing triple sessions and uping the fitness work then fading is something I wouldn't expect to see. The EPL is far more intense than the SPL, so I hope we can step up on Saturday.

Kilmarnock started their season earleir so are probably more match-fit than Rovers. It takes a good 5 - 10 games to get back to match fitness. Please don't call our league the EPL - it's Premier League or Barclays Premier League. Other comments about the midfield being overrun shows how much J Jones will be missed - I read in the paper his wife has stayed with the children in Cheshire and wants hubby to find a club in England so perhaps Rovers might be able to revive some sort of deal.

[Majiball]

Kilmarnock started their season earleir so are probably more match-fit than Rovers. It takes a good 5 - 10 games to get back to match fitness. Please don't call our league the EPL - it's Premier League or Barclays Premier League. Other comments about the midfield being overrun shows how much J Jones will be missed - I read in the paper his wife has stayed with the children in Cheshire and wants hubby to find a club in England so perhaps Rovers might be able to revive some sort of deal.

With all the modern training techniques involved these days it shouldn't take 5-10 games to get fit enough to play in the BPL ( ). That's what pre-season is for match fitness, Killie's pre-season has involved 8 friendly's and they've played 2 league matches, ours?

A poxy 4 matches, so no wonder we are not match fit. Lets see what Saturday brings as wolves have played 6 matches with there 1st team and another 7 matches with a development team, that could easily have been used to supplement 1st teamers fitness levels. Feel free to check if any 1st teamers have played in our reserves friendly fixtures.

Our pre-season prep last season involved 8 matches for the very reasons you have mentioned. With Kean wanting to develop a new style and process of playing surely given last season we need to play more than 4 matches against other teams to settle things down in that area as well?

[darwenblueswearehere]

Kilmarnock started their season earleir so are probably more match-fit than Rovers. It takes a good 5 - 10 games to get back to match fitness. Please don't call our league the EPL - it's Premier League or Barclays Premier League. Other comments about the midfield being overrun shows how much J Jones will be missed - I read in the paper his wife has stayed with the children in Cheshire and wants hubby to find a club in England so perhaps Rovers might be able to revive some sort of deal.

I wouldn't say Rovers faded, it was more like they lost interest. Killie were poor and kept losing possession, though they had a couple of lively forwards. First half we looked like we could score at will, to be honest. Worryingly we did look a bit frail defensively though, too many free headers at corners being a glaring example. Givet's not a centre half for me. Goodwillie's goal was a good striker's goal, he got caught offside 3 times in the short space of time he was on so he obviously likes playing on the shoulder of the last man. He'll score goals for us, there's no question of that in my mind. Needs to look across the line a bit better though, he'll frustrate us if he keeps getting flagged!!!

All in all it was a worthwhile run-out. And there were 312 Rovers fans there to witness it, according to the Killie announcer.

PS - Does anyone know what the argument (bordering on a fight) was in aid of between the two Rovers fans in the first half. It followed immediately after a "There's only one Jack Walker" chant but I don't know for sure whether it was connected to the incident?

[John]

Maj, I said it on another thread, seems we have been light in terms of games this pre season? I know there are behind closed door matches too which we might not be aware of.

[Majiball]

Maj, I said it on another thread, seems we have been light in terms of games this pre season? I know there are behind closed door matches too which we might not be aware of.

The same has happened at Wolves as well, though we are well behind on match fitness it would appear.

Data published in the scientific world shows very clearly that there is no league as intense as the BPL, fact. The fitness levels are the highest of almost any league because of the pace and intensity it is played at, we needed more than 4 matches to get up to speed. I guess we'll find out on Saturday and if I get back in time I'll be watching with Kean interest.

[jim mk2]

With all the modern training techniques involved these days it shouldn't take 5-10 games to get fit enough to play in the BPL ( ). That's what pre-season is for match fitness, Killie's pre-season has involved 8 friendly's and they've played 2 league matches, ours?

A poxy 4 matches, so no wonder we are not match fit.

Kilmarnock have played 10 games compared to our 4 so it's no surprise Rovers faded. From my own playing days I know it takes a while to get physically and mentally back in tune - players can train for weeks but match-fitness is entirely different. Goodwillie looked OK I thought on Saturday but the revelation was Roberts - perhaps his 606 work has given him the incentive to play better and try harder.

[philipl]

The debate on Twitter was whether we were 4-3-2-1 or 4-2-3-1.

The concensus was that we were probably the former.

[Majiball]

The debate on Twitter was whether we were 4-3-2-1 or 4-2-3-1.

The concensus was that we were probably the former.

So:

Robinson;

Emerton, Hanley, Givet, Olsson;

Dunn, Nzonzi, Pedersen;

Hoilett Formica;

Roberts.

Not being funny but the middle 3 have neither the pace or the strength to play that way, as our full backs will be bombing on. We'll need another player who can win the ball back to make it work as in effect we only have 3 defensive players in that line-up.

[Majiball]

Kilmarnock have played 10 games compared to our 4 so it's no surprise Rovers faded. From my own playing days I know it takes a while to get physically and mentally back in tune - players can train for weeks but match-fitness is entirely different. Goodwillie looked OK I thought on Saturday but the revelation was Roberts - perhaps his 606 work has given him the incentive to play better and try harder.

So you agree we should have had more pre-season fixtures arranged?

I haven't checked but I'll wager we have played the least pre-season fixtures of any Barclays Premier league team.

[philipl]

So:

Robinson;

Emerton, Hanley, Givet, Olsson;

Dunn, Nzonzi, Pedersen;

Hoilett Formica;

Roberts.

Not being funny but the middle 3 have neither the pace or the strength to play that way, as our full backs will be bombing on. We'll need another player who can win the ball back to make it work as in effect we only have 3 defensive players in that line-up.

At one point Andrew Cryer tweeted in the first half that we had four attacks, scored three and should have had another penalty with the other (Hoilett got floored in the area before Kille took the lead). Apart from that, Killie were attacking at will.

Keeping Grella fit is going to be incredibly important this season....

[jim mk2]

Keeping Grella fit is going to be incredibly important this season....

On past performance a non-starter.

[imy9]

So:

Robinson;

Emerton, Hanley, Givet, Olsson;

Dunn, Nzonzi, Pedersen;

Hoilett Formica;

Roberts.

Not being funny but the middle 3 have neither the pace or the strength to play that way, as our full backs will be bombing on. We'll need another player who can win the ball back to make it work as in effect we only have 3 defensive players in that line-up.

Petrovic or Grella would fill that role you mention Maji, nervous seeing Dunn and MGP in a three man midfield.

[Amo]

Petrovic or Grella would fill that role you mention Maji, nervous seeing Dunn and MGP in a three man midfield.

Well let's scratch that, right away. Grella's legs are made of papier mache.

It's essential we buy a new midfield partner for Fonzi.

[alexanders]

I hope Petrovic do the business. Dunn doesnt suit being Nzonzis partner.

[Majiball]

Petrovic or Grella would fill that role you mention Maji, nervous seeing Dunn and MGP in a three man midfield.

If that's how we will play then honestly we need more than one sitter type.

We will need a new CB with pace in his locker to help cover the full-backs alongside Samba. Another sitter is also needed but if being honest he will need to be a complete player - so pace, passing, tackling and positional sense will need to be high. The other aspect we will need is a better striker who again will need to be reasonably quick, strong at holding the ball up, good in the air and with an ability to score goals.

It's the old Xmas tree formation and the only real time I've seen it be truly effect was with Shearer as the front man at Euro 96. We need a roberts with goals and that will cost serious serious cash, I assume Goodwillie is the choosen player here, but we need a 3rd to cover injuries. We will also need as back-up a left back as Givet will never be able to play this role. Rochina can back-up Hoillet and Formica, but again we'll need another as injuries will occur. Grella as back-up for the sitter role, but again another is needed to cover injuries. In an ideal world Dunn and Pedersen then back-up each in the more advanced attacking midfield role, but both lack the real passing ability needed for it. Salgado and Emerton as right backs dependent on the pace of the winger we will face in the oppositions team.

So just for the 1st 11 we need a CB, a sitter and we hope Goodwillie cuts the mustard. Back-up wise I suspect we'll need at least another 3 players as what we have at present are not suited to those roles. So 5 players still needed if that formation is to be truly effect and for each role to have back-up.

[AHoyle90]

That formation I just set eyes on above, is absolutely terrible. If we are planning on playing Goodwillie he's going to need a partner or at least somebody in the hole and two quick wingers supporting him.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

It was a friendly game and presumably we were experimenting with formations. Its not worth crying about.

[RibbleValleyRover]

I just hope we don't see another Kalinic situation i.e. player with some talent but just doesn't fit the system with Goodie. I have serious doubts about him in a lone striker role, the support needs to be great for it to work (especially with his height) - something we haven't been good at in recent years.

I agree with Maji and others that a 3 man midfield will have problems in the league with the personnel we have. Only N'zonzi can play that role to a decent level, Dunny can't neither can Pedersen from what I've seen so far. Grella, like Topman and Jim have said can't be relied upon. If Rovers are going to play a 4-3-2-1 you really need a bit of creative spark in that ‘triumvirate’, someone who can pass the ball and set up attacks. Petrovic from what I gather isn't creative and is a similar type of player as N'Zonzi.

Ideally we need something like (if we played a 4-3-2-1):

(Creative midfielder/deep lying playmaker) N'zonzi (Box-to-box all-round player)

Hoilett Formica

(Striker)

If we start with Dunny, Pedersen and N'Zonzi as a midfield three in the league we will get dominated.

[darwenblueswearehere]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people on this board put forward critical opinions on a performance and tactics when they didn't even see the game. Rovers looked like they were taking the ###### out of Kilmarnock in that first half once we'd scored, to the point where Dunny and N'Zonzi actually looked a bit casual at times. Hoillett was terrorising them and Formica got in behind them once or twice too. Jason looked a half decent centre forward which is probably a sad indictment on Kilmarnock's class. Kilmarnock did have their moments too, but kept giving the ball away. I would ease off the criticism until we get a few league games under our belts.

[McClarky]

Good day out in Killie. The game was decent but we did struggle a bit with their wide players and the scoreline flattered us a bit. Played decent enough though really. I'm surprised how few games we have played pre-season because we look far from ready and we really need to get off to a good start.

I don't know about anyone else but I thought Goodwillie looked a bit chunky to say the least. He looked like he had had a goodbreakfast anyway.

Highlight of the day was the supoerb Killie Pie. I hope all 312 who made the trip tried 1 as they are quite legendary.