[Archived] London riots

[koi]

That's because this is a one off....

No army. Think it will die down now.

Should do, best mate has specialised in riot control for over 30 years and has said some rain or the temperature drops they'll calm down. He and others in the Police always look out for consecutive days with temperatures between 27° - 32° as trouble usually follows.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I thought it was stirring to see the vigilante groups of all races on the streets last night,seemed to be mostly older white 'lads' intent on reigning in the younger element.Also,fair play to those who had organized the clear up.

At the same time sadly,I was also thinking what the hell is this country coming to.

One matter of point that has hit home hard is how seemingly smug and totally arrogant the younger element are today,a total lack of respect for any authority and a willingness to challenge it seems a badge of honour for most of them.

[jim mk2]

I think Jim has a serious medical condition, no don't laugh I'm being serious - he seems to have a massive black hole in his memory between the years of 1997 -2010.

Golden years of prosperity under a Labour govt in which you became immensely more wealthy.

Good piece by Matthew Norman in the Independent on the desperation of Cameron.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/matthew-norman/matthew-norman-camerons-biggest-test-has-arrived-is-he-up-to-the-job-2334815.html

[Biddy]

Golden years of prosperity under a Labour govt in which you became immensely more wealthy.

If debt = wealth then fair enough. good old labour government.

[Mattyblue]

Every Labour government has left office with the country on its knees- no more so than 2010.

[alexanders]

Is it safe to travel to London tomorrow ?

[SAS]

I thought it was stirring to see the vigilante groups of all races on the streets last night,seemed to be mostly older white 'lads' intent on reigning in the younger element.Also,fair play to those who had organized the clear up.

At the same time sadly,I was also thinking what the hell is this country coming to.

One matter of point that has hit home hard is how seemingly smug and totally arrogant the younger element are today,a total lack of respect for any authority and a willingness to challenge it seems a badge of honour for most of them.

Showed a group in enfield and a group of hindu's, then an edl group that was ringed by the riot police....

[Mattyblue]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8691363/London-and-UK-riots-The-long-retreat-of-order.html

Sums it up for me.

[arachnica]

Golden years of prosperity under a Labour govt in which you became immensely more wealthy.

Good piece by Matthew Norman in the Independent on the desperation of Cameron.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/matthew-norman/matthew-norman-camerons-biggest-test-has-arrived-is-he-up-to-the-job-2334815.html

Under Labour, despite the illusionary economic bubble they presided over, the number of 16-24 year olds out of work rose by 40%. Over 600,000 kids who left school between 1997 and 2010 never once got into work.

And these weren't Golden Years it was a false economy, economic development built on unsustainable credit, borrowing and consumerism while the long term determinants of growth withered.

The current situation represents a political failure over 50 years - cheap politicking demeans the severity of the situation.

[adopted scouser]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8691363/London-and-UK-riots-The-long-retreat-of-order.html

Sums it up for me.

Sums it up for me an 'all

[philipl]

GMP delivering a clip round the ear

The Met has set up a rogues gallery on Flickr.

[cruz]

Looting spreads to Blackpool

http://tinyurl.com/3m7g6ad

[Ozz]

I lean to left wing, predominantly socialist ethics, but I also belive in discipline. I am hoping that these turds that are doing the damage in our cities will prove to be the straw that broke the camels back, and finally stop the PC approach to policing, parenthood, education and workplace relations. It's clear that this is what is at the root of the behaviour of these people, they have got away with so much in their lives that they now think they are above the law and beyond reproach.

The signs last night of groups of people standing outside their communities and neighbourhoods, ready to defend them tells me we are approaching a watershed moment-enough is enough. I just hope this government has the balls to take a long hard look at the truth behind these modern day untermensch and take action to remedy it.

[ABBEY]

Looting spreads to Blackpool

http://tinyurl.com/3m7g6ad

Now that's quality pmsl

[ABBEY]

Looting spreads to Blackpool

http://tinyurl.com/3m7g6ad

Now that's quality pmsl

[jim mk2]

Under Labour, despite the illusionary economic bubble they presided over, the number of 16-24 year olds out of work rose by 40%. Over 600,000 kids who left school between 1997 and 2010 never once got into work.

And these weren't Golden Years it was a false economy, economic development built on unsustainable credit, borrowing and consumerism while the long term determinants of growth withered.

The current situation represents a political failure over 50 years - cheap politicking demeans the severity of the situation.

Manufacturing growth, the principal driver of growth, hit a 15-year high in 2010 under Labour. Their period in power was characterised by steady, non-inflationary year-on-year growth that only came to an end with the worldwide financial crash of 2008. Their predecessors oversaw a catastrophic decline in manufacturing and a switch in the economy to financial services that is the cause of the current fiscal crisis and has exacerbated the north-south divide. The Tory govt of 1979 - 87 was responsible for 3 boom and busts, 2 housing market crashes, rampant inflation and the culture of have-it-all consumerism.

[Mattyblue]

The policies of the liberal and socialist left from Crossman down have failed this country- about time you faced up to it jim.

[1864roverite]

May be we can now bin the HUG A HOODIE campaign and replace it with a SMACK A HOODIE campaign instead.

honestly, how can anyone on here try and attach blame to Thatcher, Blair or Cameron is beyond belief. This scum are not protesting about anything, it is simply disorganised theft and vandelism. It has resulted in 3 young men losing their lives and for what exactly ?

the PC brigade should now disappear back to where they came from and let reality take over.

I for one, would love to see a water cannon unleashed on the chav scum, would love to see the birch being handed out and would love to see one of these so called gangsters reveal their identity instead of hiding behind hoods and scarves.

I fully support the stance being taken by ALL communities, their numbers far outweigh the scum numbers.

[arachnica]

Manufacturing growth, the principal driver of growth, hit a 15-year high in 2010 under Labour. Their period in power was characterised by steady, non-inflationary year-on-year growth that only came to an end with the worldwide financial crash of 2008. Their predecessors oversaw a catastrophic decline in manufacturing and a switch in the economy to financial services that is the cause of the current fiscal crisis and has exacerbated the north-south divide. The Tory govt of 1979 - 87 was responsible for 3 boom and busts, 2 housing market crashes, rampant inflation and the culture of have-it-all consumerism.

Your living in a fantasy world Jim. Under Thatcher manufacturing declined from 25.8% GDP to 22.5%. Under Labour 20% to 12.2%. Financial services boomed in the 90's.

The economy was built on huge Government spending, consumer spending financed by cheap credit and a housing boom. Inflation was primarily kept low by (a) immigration which kept wages low and ( cheap chinese imports. The determinants of a successful prosperous economy, such as labour productivity, sustainable government expenditure, investment and savings levels were woeful. The only balanced budget the last Government kept were in the first two years of their premiership, when they kept to Major's spending priorities. Fortunately the rest of the country has now woken up to how useless Brown actually was as Chancellor and its only Jim and a few with selective amnesia who believe this rubbish.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8691363/London-and-UK-riots-The-long-retreat-of-order.html

Sums it up for me.

Yep pretty much hits the nail on the head.

The total breakdown of discipline for young people and the removal of power from authorities that has been going on for decades is a major root cause of this. The problem with people in authority having power is that every once in a while you'll get a bad egg who abuses it. This is why the cane was removed from schools, the police's ability to use force has become restricted and monitored to an extreme, parent's have been told to stop smacking their children.

But on the flip side this is what you get in return, a whole generation who don't know the meaning of authority. They swear at and ignore their parents, they swear and and ignore their teachers, they swear at and ignore strangers and now they swear at and ignore the police. They do what they want because those who used to have authority and power in society have been told they can no longer discipline badly behaved youngsters with force, but to use persuasion and rewards. And that simply doesn't work.

[Miker]

The total breakdown of discipline for young people and the removal of power from authorities that has been going on for decades is a major root cause of this. The problem with people in authority having power is that every once in a while you'll get a bad egg who abuses it. This is why the cane was removed from schools, the police's ability to use force has become restricted and monitored to an extreme, parent's have been told to stop smacking their children.

But on the flip side this is what you get in return, a whole generation who don't know the meaning of authority. They swear at and ignore their parents, they swear and and ignore their teachers, they swear at and ignore strangers and now they swear at and ignore the police. They do what they want because those who used to have authority and power in society have been told they can no longer discipline badly behaved youngsters with force, but to use persuasion and rewards. And that simply doesn't work.

I've wanted to comment on this thread for a while, but there are already some really high quality posts reflecting how I feel (namely rebemlswar's posts) so I figured there's no need for me to add anything further.

But I do want to add something here. First of all, to say persuasion and rewards don't work is false because they do, but there's appropriate times for both positive and negative reinforcement. There's sufficient evidence either way to show that rewards and incentives do work, possibly better than punishment and discipline.

That said, the events in London have made my blood boil and my general feeling is that every single person responsible should be beaten and disciplined for what they've done.

However, I don't think the problem has necessarily been lack of discipline or punishment for these kids throughout. I was never disciplined or punished as a kid and I've grown up to be someone with great personal responsibility and respect for the people around me. The problem is that these kids have never been taught to respect others, to think of others or to understand why things are as they are. These kids have probably not only been allowed to cause mischief without punishment, but also made to feel that any punishment they did receive for their bad actions was personal and directed at them, rather than done for the benefit of their peers. They've basically been bred with a selfish attitude and the failure to empathise or sympathise with those around them. This is the fault of a combination of lack of punishment and bad punishment.

Like with most things, I firmly believe in a perfect balance existing that will achieve the best results. The problem is that this is by far the hardest solution.

[Nelsta]

Manchester arndale is shutting early tonight, Strong rumours of gangs congregating near by.

[Steve Moss]

That's because this is a one off....

No army. Think it will die down now.

Until the next time something sets them off and some bright spark remembers that he stole a plasma screen and suffered no consequence.

[ABBEY]

wait til the first @#/? rings up the makers when it doesnt work.

[roverandout]

do people think most of the trouble has subsided now or is it as bad as ever up north?