[Archived] London riots

[Tom]

Large police presence in Brum today, bullring shut at 4 to my annoyance when I turned up needing something at 5 past!

Wasn't the best day to wear a leather jacket with a hood, got some dodgy looks although maybe the balaclava didn't help!

[ABBEY]

You look dodgy without a hoody

[jim mk2]

Your living in a fantasy world Jim. Under Thatcher manufacturing declined from 25.8% GDP to 22.5%. Under Labour 20% to 12.2%. Financial services boomed in the 90's.

The economy was built on huge Government spending, consumer spending financed by cheap credit and a housing boom. Inflation was primarily kept low by (a) immigration which kept wages low and ( cheap chinese imports. The determinants of a successful prosperous economy, such as labour productivity, sustainable government expenditure, investment and savings levels were woeful. The only balanced budget the last Government kept were in the first two years of their premiership, when they kept to Major's spending priorities. Fortunately the rest of the country has now woken up to how useless Brown actually was as Chancellor and its only Jim and a few with selective amnesia who believe this rubbish.

Usual tripe trotted out by Conservative Central Office conveniently forgetting that Gordon Brown presided over the longest unbroken streak of economic growth since 1701 and perpetuating continuing Tory deceit and myths about Labour's public spending.

The reality is that for ten years under Labour Britain enjoyed an uninterrupted and unprecedented period of prosperity, combining low inflation with full employment while substantially reducing child poverty and rescuing at great expense third world health and education services inherited from the Conservatives. They did so without raising borrowing levels even to the OECD average and at the end of the period Britain was still almost at the bottom of the G8 as regards the proportion of GDP represented by public debt.

Gordon Brown was universally respected throughout this period as one of the great chancellors of the exchequer and lauded by Tories when in opposition. Internationally he added to his reputation during the 2008-9 financial crisis by his role in global action to avert economic collapse across the western world.

Now if you want a debate about Tory economic mismanagement 1979 -97, and why disaffected youths are again torching inner cities under a Conservative adminstration, please carry on.

[Mattyblue]

Why is it 'tripe' from Tory central office? Those are facts from the National Office of Statistics.

face facts james, the disaffected youth grew up on Labour's watch, whose liberal polcies acrossBritish institutons and all encompassing welfare state has ruined the working class.

You should be ashamed of the Labour Party for its betrayal and fighting to change it.

[RovertheHill]

Usual tripe trotted out by Conservative Central Office conveniently forgetting that Gordon Brown presided over the longest unbroken streak of economic growth since 1701 and perpetuating continuing Tory deceit and myths about Labour's public spending.

The reality is that for ten years under Labour Britain enjoyed an uninterrupted and unprecedented period of prosperity, combining low inflation with full employment while substantially reducing child poverty and rescuing at great expense third world health and education services inherited from the Conservatives. They did so without raising borrowing levels even to the OECD average and at the end of the period Britain was still almost at the bottom of the G8 as regards the proportion of GDP represented by public debt.

Gordon Brown was universally respected throughout this period as one of the great chancellors of the exchequer and lauded by Tories when in opposition. Internationally he added to his reputation during the 2008-9 financial crisis by his role in global action to avert economic collapse across the western world.

Now if you want a debate about Tory economic mismanagement 1979 -97, and why disaffected youths are again torching inner cities under a Conservative adminstration, please carry on.

Full employment? Must have missed that one.

And you clearly didn't deem the graph of youth unemployment worthy of comment but it drives a cart and horses through your "disaffected" youth politicising. Seriously you are so out of touch on this it's unbelievable. Your argument is the same as some of the knobs they interviewed on the news tonight but dressed up in more eloquence - but it's still wrong.

[Darwen Rover]

TOTAL RESPECT for Tariq jahan father whose son was murdered.. For the way he has conducted himself in an unbelievably tough situation

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/video/news/sky-news/3744614/Riot-victims-dad-speaks-out.html

[Stuart]

TOTAL RESPECT for Tariq jahan father whose son was murdered.. For the way he has conducted himself in an unbelievably tough situation

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/video/news/sky-news/3744614/Riot-victims-dad-speaks-out.html

Completely agree.

The restraint, dignity and humility shown by that guy, in horrific circumstances. He's a role model to us all but I couldn't honestly say I'd be able to react so calmly.

I'm genuinely humbled.

[PAFELL]

Why is it 'tripe' from Tory central office? Those are facts from the National Office of Statistics.

face facts james, the disaffected youth grew up on Labour's watch, whose liberal polcies acrossBritish institutons and all encompassing welfare state has ruined the working class.

You should be ashamed of the Labour Party for its betrayal and fighting to change it.

A person still has the responcibility to mind their own behaviour. Matters not who is in government, when it comes to self management. if were down on our luck, we should not bring others down with us.

Parents have responcibility to bring up their children correctly. Children have responcibility to respect their parents / guardians. Sadly respect for ourselves and each other has gone out of the window.

It is very easy to point the finger elsewhere - especially at governments. Yet we do not point the finger at ourselves. Is there anything that we as individuals can do to help the young or the elderly or even our neighbours. We often just say, somebody else will do it.

I respct the turkish in London who have come out onto the streets to protect the shops etc in their area. More of us need to do simular things. The man who lost his son in the riots - even in pain at his loss - he has had the courage to act and speak as he has done.

It is easy to blame and pass the buck to others. But it is us who live in our communitees, not the government or the Police. We protect our homes, our streets and we then protect our children, when we stand up to these scum on our streets.

[John]

Loads of chavs still lurking about, either roaming around in cars or small groups. Go to bed you losers!

[thenodrog]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8691363/London-and-UK-riots-The-long-retreat-of-order.html

Sums it up for me.

And me.

[Miker]

Theodore Dalrymple (aka Anthony Daniels) on the riots

Been really interested and impressed with this guy's views after recently finding out about him. It's worth checking out some of his other writings as well.

[philipl]

Woken at 4.30am by wailing sirens. Looked out and several Police prison vans were rapidly on the move- I guess a bunch of characters whose pictures were put up on Flickr had received knocks on the door in the small hours.

A few random reflections:

- We are probably in the most dangerous phase now in that having had a national lull in violence, were it to restart, there is a huge danger that it would be much more difficult to stop and that vigilantes would get to the perpetrators before the police do.

- The whole country owes the deepest debt of gratitude and admiration to Tariq Jahan whose dignity and love in grief has almost single-handedly stopped this abhorance.

- This will be controversial but Tariq Jahan is far more representative of people in the Muslim community and of the love and the beauty in Islam than most non-Muslims realise. Yes there are deep problems within Islam (show me a religion without such problems) but Tariq Jahan is a shining but by no means unique practitioner of his religion.

Some other pointers:

- For all the criticism of the Police and policing, there was no inflammation of an already inflammatory situation brought on by their tactics or creation of "looter martyrs". In the big picture of things, it could be that the policing tactics adopted has worked. What is essential now is the use of co-operation by Blackberry and scouring of eBay and CCTV etc is used to break the informal structures which under-pinned and facilitated the riots.

- Paradoxically, the experience in California after the LA riots was that it created the political atmosphere to drive through enormous cuts to welfare. If the police cuts get reversed, the Coalition Government might actually find it easier to drive through the rest of its welfare reform agenda.

[Mattyblue]

Not taking anything away from that tragic father, but no, an enormous police presence, vigilante groups and rain has stopped it.

[ABBEY]

raids on milletts and the great outdoors arer planned next so they can get some wet gear.

[roverandout]

anyone think the rain is a blessing in disguise? as we all know rain washes filth away.

[Gav]

TOTAL RESPECT for Tariq jahan father whose son was murdered.. For the way he has conducted himself in an unbelievably tough situation

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/video/news/sky-news/3744614/Riot-victims-dad-speaks-out.html

Yes completely agree

Bit of humour in trying times:

Manchester Rioter

[ABBEY]

gav any truth you tried to rob the butchers in tescos but the steaks were too high ?

[Mattyblue]

Tim Vine gag that abster!

[Rover Down Under]

Mrs Thatcher created the genre 30 years ago, and these are their descendants. She also said there was no such thing as society, so she must be sitting at home now feeling very pleased at the long-term consequence of her policies.

RoversMum already brilliantly outed you on another thread for your fraudulent misquoting so I'll repeat it here for the benefit of others:

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/106689

Some selected quotes;

"people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations"

"If children have a problem, it is society that is at fault. There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate."

"When we have got all of those, when we have got reasonable housing when you compare us with other countries, when you have got a reasonable standard of living and you have got no-one who is hungry or need be hungry, when you have got an education system that teaches everyone—not as good as we would wish—you are left with what?"

You should try reading the whole article (written almost a quarter of a century ago) as therein lies many of the causes of the feral, parasitic behaviour demonstrated on the streets of our once great country this week.

[BuckyRover]

And me.

I thought for a second you were agreeing that you had respect for that grieving father.

I nearly fell off my chair

[ackroyd75]

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpntn4F1Ea1r1qajlo1_r1_500.jpg&imgrefurl=http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D137141313&usg=__v0dSFQedT0uG40Ys2KbvE6bcCs0=&h=323&w=500&sz=51&hl=en&start=40&zoom=1&tbnid=2oIzNxHvuGpBMM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=130&ei=AKlDTsr5NYaw8gPb_bDsBQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dphotoshopped%2Briot%2Bpictures%26start%3D21%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1259%26bih%3D848%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1

Not very tasteful but quite clever!

[Glenn]

http://www.google.co...sch&um=1&itbs=1

Not very tasteful but quite clever!

They're taken from the excellent http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com which cocker linked a few pages back (there are even more there now).

[RovertheHill]

Is there any reason one of my posts on this thread, in response to Jim Mk2, appears to have disappeared?

[jim mk2]

RoversMum already brilliantly outed you on another thread for your fraudulent misquoting so I'll repeat it here for the benefit of others:

Fraudulent misquoting ? I don't think so. I'm well aware of the Woman's Own interview in 1987 and the context in which the phrase was said. The fact is those words by Thatcher will forever define the 1980s and captured perfectly her heartless individualism and bourgeois smugness.

For your information, Britain is still a great country - it's the greatest country in the world. All it needs is a new government.

[Kelbo]

Fraudulent misquoting ? I don't think so. I'm well aware of the Woman's Own interview in 1987 and the context in which the phrase was said. The fact is those words by Thatcher will forever define the 1980s and captured perfectly her heartless individualism and bourgeois smugness.

For your information, Britain is still a great country - it's the greatest country in the world. All it needs is a new government.

As long as its not the one who put us into so much debt,let immigration grow to the highest ever and allowed youth employment to grow to the largest in history!