[Archived] London riots

[philipl]

The other piece of lunacy is this idea that we can somehow learn from an American cop.

All he can teach us is how to have violent crime rates three times worse than London and homicide rates ten times worse.

No thanks buster.

[thenodrog]

The other piece of lunacy is this idea that we can somehow learn from an American cop.

All he can teach us is how to have violent crime rates three times worse than London and homicide rates ten times worse.

No thanks buster.

I kind of see where you are coming from but I'm not too sure about it. In a combat situation I'd rather fight alongside a soldier who has seen active service than a new recruit. Similarly I'd rather complete the 100 lakes rally with an experienced driver than someone who's just passed their test and who still hasn't crossed their hands on a steering wheel.

[SouthAussieRover]

In a combat situation one of your own troop would probably shoot you.

[pg]

Not sure if its been mentioned yet, but English prisons are full and have been since 2008. The English prison population has doubled since 1991, primarily due to harsher sentencing.

[thenodrog]

Not sure if its been mentioned yet, but English prisons are full and have been since 2008. The English prison population has doubled since 1991, primarily due to harsher sentencing.

More like more criminals.

[philipl]

Not sure if its been mentioned yet, but English prisons are full and have been since 2008. The English prison population has doubled since 1991, primarily due to harsher sentencing.

You are right- something that is overlooked and it is not linked to more crime as the stats have trended down in all categories since 1991.

The plan is to put them 3 to a cell now.

[John]

The police reaction has been good since the riots kicked off, even though in a sense, too little too late.

Strong presence on the street and quite a few plain clothes ones around too - still trouble makers hanging around though, not the time to be complacent.

[philipl]

This is a very wise article in the Independent.

[philipl]

This is a very wise article in the Independent.

[thenodrog]

This is a very wise article in the Independent.

Did you buy two copies?

As far as the wisdom of that article Philip. Where is it? Lots of bleeding heart, hand wringing but absolutely sweet FA by way of proposing a workable solution. Useless politicking was all I could detect. Rather typically liberal imo and a waste of half a dozen fine mature trees in Norway.

I did point the way forward but Hemel deleted it. Why don't you can send him your spare copy of the Independent so he can nod wisely and harrumph in agreement and join people like her who skirt the issue and refuse to grasp the nettle. Simply hoping unpleasant issues will go away will solve nothing, history tells us time and again that they won't. Take note Hemel we tried that approach with Hitler.

[jim mk2]

More like more criminals.

Doesn't suit your agenda but here you go, Alf.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10645702

Did you buy two copies?

As far as the wisdom of that article Philip. Where is it? Lots of bleeding heart, hand wringing but absolutely sweet FA by way of proposing a workable solution. Useless politicking was all I could detect. Rather typically liberal imo and a waste of half a dozen fine mature trees in Norway.

I did point the way forward but Hemel deleted it. Why don't you can send him your spare copy of the Independent so he can nod wisely and harrumph in agreement and join people like her who skirt the issue and refuse to grasp the nettle. Simply hoping unpleasant issues will go away will solve nothing, history tells us time and again that they won't. Take note Hemel we tried that approach with Hitler.

Your wasted on here Alf, This is where you should be.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/

[thenodrog]

Doesn't suit your agenda but here you go, Alf.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10645702

Are you thick or what? Mine was simply a comment on pg's original post. Your feeble agenda is obvious.

[thenodrog]

Your wasted on here Alf, This is where you should be.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/

Your glib and immature comments in support of Adolph Hitler have been noted Jim. Thank you.

Maybe now instead of continually sniping and targetting me you'd like to comment on HemelRovers's queasy disposition and flawed judgement which made him totally censor a discussion which he alone deemed to be distasteful. In a nutshell Jim he obviously doesn't think you are mature and capable of thinking for yourself.... on second thoughts after your last post he may indeed have a point.

[JAL]

Still not seen or read anywhere changes being made in our society that will prevent this sort of thing happening again.

No youth clubs ! no jobs! no chance for the youth of today!

[jim mk2]

Still not seen or read anywhere changes being made in our society that will prevent this sort of thing happening again.

No youth clubs ! no jobs! no chance for the youth of today!

One of the first acts of this Tory-led government was to cut youth employment programmes and other programmes that have lifted lives of so many people on the some of the worst estates over the past 15 years. The right wing's first reaction to last week's protests is to punish hard - witness some of the ludicrous jail sentences handed out for petty offences to people some of whom took no part in the protests - while ignoring the underlying causes of the underclass and doing nothing to address the problems.The lid is on the pressure cooker for now but is likely to boil over again as the government cuts continue to dig deeper into society and unemployment continues to rise.

[Biddy]

The "underclass" has not suddenly become so within the past year alone. That has been bubbling away for many many years which in my reckoning would also lie fault with the previous shambles.

Some of the programmes that have been cut (or more likely still due to be cut) were often being mis-targeted or mis-used. One such example was the payments for travel allowance to get kids to higher education. A nice idea if targeted correctly however it still grates me the interviews with some 16 year olds that stated "yeah, I'll miss the money as I get clothes and trainers with it, innit" (I might be paraphrasing).

I also note the fact that when councils do invest and put money into projects, the youth of today have no respect and pride in what they are given. For example in Derby they have recently spent a fair sum on creating a skate park in a nice location. It took all of a week for the whole site to be full of graffiti of swearing and lame "tags".

As for the harsh sentances, well thats what the general public has been crying out for so we can hardly mock the government for making sure it is enforced. You'd have been on here complaining of only "slaps on the wrists" and "warnings" if it has been too lenient. Oh no, that would have happened under labour so you would have been all for it.

[thenodrog]

One of the first acts of this Tory-led government was to cut youth employment programmes and other programmes that have lifted lives of so many people on the some of the worst estates over the past 15 years. The right wing's first reaction to last week's protests is to punish hard - witness some of the ludicrous jail sentences handed out for petty offences to people some of whom took no part in the protests - while ignoring the underlying causes of the underclass and doing nothing to address the problems.The lid is on the pressure cooker for now but is likely to boil over again as the government cuts continue to dig deeper into society and unemployment continues to rise.

"Protests" I see that you still deem the rioting, arson, vilence and murder and looting as a 'protest' despite me pulling you up about it a few days ago. I can only describe your views on this as those of a warped or disturbed mind.

[thenodrog]

The "underclass" has not suddenly become so within the past year alone. That has been bubbling away for many many years which in my reckoning would also lie fault with the previous shambles.

Some of the programmes that have been cut (or more likely still due to be cut) were often being mis-targeted or mis-used. One such example was the payments for travel allowance to get kids to higher education. A nice idea if targeted correctly however it still grates me the interviews with some 16 year olds that stated "yeah, I'll miss the money as I get clothes and trainers with it, innit" (I might be paraphrasing).

I also note the fact that when councils do invest and put money into projects, the youth of today have no respect and pride in what they are given. For example in Derby they have recently spent a fair sum on creating a skate park in a nice location. It took all of a week for the whole site to be full of graffiti of swearing and lame "tags".

As for the harsh sentances, well thats what the general public has been crying out for so we can hardly mock the government for making sure it is enforced. You'd have been on here complaining of only "slaps on the wrists" and "warnings" if it has been too lenient. Oh no, that would have happened under labour so you would have been all for it.

The answer is in Roe v Wade.

Look it up yourself, look up recently deleted posts too if you like. Just don't bother asking Hemel about it. Like Nero he is content to fiddle away in leafy gentle Hemel Hempstead whilst London literally burns.

[thenodrog]

Still not seen or read anywhere changes being made in our society that will prevent this sort of thing happening again.

No youth clubs ! no jobs! no chance for the youth of today!

There are no current cures JAL. All the cures are long term and must be designed to confront the causes not the effects. It's too late for these sorts now. The world has moved on at a pace. We no longer need the same amount of unskilled labour cos other countries provide that, what they don't provide machines will do now, truth is we don't even need cannon fodder anymore. The only function the social underclass performs now is as a soft target for marketeers.

[colin]

JFHC Theno,

You make Eeeyore sound like Tigger by comparison.

Here you go

Dignitas

It's your only option

[cn174]

Still not seen or read anywhere changes being made in our society that will prevent this sort of thing happening again.

No youth clubs ! no jobs! no chance for the youth of today!

It's all too easy to say 'no youth clubs', 'no jobs' I think. But I think if you look a little bit harder then that's not really the case. I'll give an example from my work.

Over a period of 18 months between Oct 09 - Apr 11 we created 301 NEW (were not allowed to be existing) jobs within our business specifically for people aged between 18-25. Of these about 70 have been absorbed into our business in a full time position, whilst another 120 went onto other paid employment. In the case of the 70 that stayed, about half applied for internal advertised vacancies, whilst the other half people found money within their budgets, asked for more money etc because they wanted to keep that person.

The people who were interviewed for these jobs really did fall into two camps - those who wanted a job and those that didn't. I interviewed one lad who turned up looking like Rab C Nesbitt or something who clearly didn't want to be there and the interview went like this 'if i get a job will I still get JSA?' 'erm, no' 'oh well **** that then, i'm going'. End of interview. Of course not all of them were that extreme, but there were many who had just come because the jobcentre had sent them. Whereas on the other hand we had many good people come for interviews and we employed as many of them as we could.

Now I know that we were not the only company/council to have done this - I checked the figures on DWP and in total there were 105,000 starts to the FJF programme - so that's 105,000 new jobs created just for young people. So not really 'no jobs'.

Of course a lot of these jobs aren't people's 'dream job' but there's still plenty of jobs out there - I just did a search on jobcentreplus for a 1mile radius of my postcode and there's 249 - people just need to take opportunities more I think.

[Stuart]

How many of those 249 were permanent, full time positions, Claire?

Also I thought jobs were no longer allowed to be discriminated by age?

[Bazzanotsogreat]

One of the first acts of this Tory-led government was to cut youth employment programmes and other programmes that have lifted lives of so many people on the some of the worst estates over the past 15 years. The right wing's first reaction to last week's protests is to punish hard - witness some of the ludicrous jail sentences handed out for petty offences to people some of whom took no part in the protests - while ignoring the underlying causes of the underclass and doing nothing to address the problems.The lid is on the pressure cooker for now but is likely to boil over again as the government cuts continue to dig deeper into society and unemployment continues to rise.

You are hilarious, three-quarters of the scum involved in the riots wouldn’t have a clue which party is even in power, let alone know who is prime minister .

[Stuart]

Reading in The Times this morning that appeals are starting to be heard and sentenced are already starting to be overturned or reduced.

Great, innit? I expect the scrotes involved are using defence lawyers paid for by the tax-payer to get off too.

Zero deterrent. It's only a matter of time before vigilante groups starting meting out their own punishments and we go from nanny state to mafia state!

[dazmaz]

How many of those 249 were permanent, full time positions, Claire?

Also I thought jobs were no longer allowed to be discriminated by age?

FJF jobs were 6 month temp jobs. The idea behind them was for it to get young people into work and gain some experience. the 16-25 age limit was actually imposed by the government.

Claire has a very valid point within her post. many young people on JSA dont want to work and has nothing to do with the amount of jobs out there. you get out of it what you put in, I have seen people apply for 20+ jobs a week just to get a job whilst others literally lie on their job search forms just to get the benifits