[Archived] London riots

[jim mk2]

Reading in The Times this morning that appeals are starting to be heard and sentenced are already starting to be overturned or reduced.

The sentences had to be rescinded because most were out of all proportion to the crimes and imposed by magistrates who responded to hysterical calls by the right wing for draconian punishments that were on average 25 per cent longer than normal and could not be justified in law.

[thenodrog]

One of the first acts of this Tory-led government was to cut youth employment programmes and other programmes that have lifted lives of so many people on the some of the worst estates over the past 15 years. The right wing's first reaction to last week's protests is to punish hard - witness some of the ludicrous jail sentences handed out for petty offences to people some of whom took no part in the protests - while ignoring the underlying causes of the underclass and doing nothing to address the problems.The lid is on the pressure cooker for now but is likely to boil over again as the government cuts continue to dig deeper into society and unemployment continues to rise.

Check out Jim's definition of a 'protestor'.

http://web.orange.co.uk/article/news/video_released_of_rioters_shooting_at_police

Is it any wonder your idiotic views attract such widespread condemnation Jim?

Just as an aside how long will it be before the police in the helicopters go equipped and ready to target and shoot such individuals? Always difficult of course in crowd situations but the SAS used helicopters to chase down and execute IRA terrorists to great effect in Northern Ireland before they were withdrawn by intimidated UK politicians.

[Stuart]

The sentences had to be rescinded because most were out of all proportion to the crimes and imposed by magistrates who responded to hysterical calls by the right wing for draconian punishments that were on average 25 per cent longer than normal and could not be justified in law.

Surely even at the height of their hysteria they were only handing out the maximum sentence for the crime committed?

But you are right, why look at the whole situation that each person contributed to when deciding sentences. Simply judge each individual action on it's own merits. At least they won't do it again.

Sorry Jim but your crusade against the Tories is misplaced in this situation, surely. Personally I think the term 'synergy' is very apt to describe the crimes, and SHOULD be considered in determining punishment.

[jim mk2]

Surely even at the height of their hysteria they were only handing out the maximum sentence for the crime committed?

As I pointed out in my previous post, an examination of more than 1,000 cases dealt with so far by magistrates and published in the national press shows courts are handing down prison sentences to protesters that are on average 25% longer than normal. The magistrates like members on this board seem to have caught up in the general hysteria and extreme views in responding to right-wing calls for tough sentences and have gone way over the top. For instance, Manchester mother of 2 Ursula Nevin was sent to jail for keeping a stolen pair of shorts and took no part in the protests; she was released on appeal within days.There will be hundreds more like her in the coming weeks as the criminal justice system reflects on the harshness of some of the sentences. Cameron has also been warned by the Lib Dems today he faces a battle if he tries to water down Britain's commitment to human rights in the wake of the protests.

[Stuart]

I've not saying they weren't longer than normal but they surely couldn't hand out longer than the maximum sentence allowed for, say, receiving stolen goods.

The situation(s) last week were abhorrent and a statement needed to be made. Did you not read about the 3 men mown down by a vehicle for protecting their property; the 68 year old man who was kicked to death for trying to put out a fire; the scooter rider who was pulled from his scooter by his head and thrown to the ground; etc?

These people are disgusting, and do not deserve to be treated as human beings, let alone have the protection of the criminal, sorry human, rights act.

They were all in it together - from the Facebook organisers to the shop-looters. Everyone involved in whatever way should be treated the same way as the worst culprit.

Every action requires an equal and opposite reaction. The actions were extreme so the reaction should be extreme, therefore I've no sympathy.

If we allow people to get away with it, how many more will join in next time?

[thenodrog]

As I pointed out in my previous post, an examination of more than 1,000 cases dealt with so far by magistrates and published in the national press shows courts are handing down prison sentences to protesters that are on average 25% longer than normal. The magistrates like members on this board seem to have caught up in the general hysteria and extreme views in responding to right-wing calls for tough sentences and have gone way over the top. For instance, Manchester mother of 2 Ursula Nevin was sent to jail for keeping a stolen pair of shorts and took no part in the protests; she was released on appeal within days.There will be hundreds more like her in the coming weeks as the criminal justice system reflects on the harshness of some of the sentences. Cameron has also been warned by the Lib Dems today he faces a battle if he tries to water down Britain's commitment to human rights in the wake of the protests.

It's not all bad. I bet Ursula thinks twice about receiving stolen goods next time. Maybe one of the fathers of her children will pop around to babysit whilst she does her community service if she can remember who he is.

btw how long would you give the gunmen "protestors" Jim? 40 hours community service? How about the "protestor" who mowed down and killed three men who were out protecting their shop? One of those all expenses paid free holidays to Africa perhaps? Of course it won't really be their fault will it cos they will all have been abused as kids by a Tory councillor / addicted to methadone cos a Tory gave em free heroine years ago / upset cos some distant relative commited suicide 12 months ago when the Tories booted Brown's dreadfully damaging Labour govt out of office etc etc. Sorry but I've little time for such vermin and even less for idiotic bleeding heart namby pamby's like yourself.

[thenodrog]

These people are disgusting, and do not deserve to be treated as human beings, let alone have the protection of the criminal, sorry human, rights act.

They were all in it together - from the Facebook organisers to the shop-looters. Everyone involved in whatever way should be treated the same way as the worst culprit.

Every action requires an equal and opposite reaction. The actions were extreme so the reaction should be extreme, therefore I've no sympathy.

If we allow people to get away with it, how many more will join in next time?

In a rather vague statement The Mail is reporting that "Polls suggest that 81 per cent of Britons backed the tough line".

[jim mk2]

I've not saying they weren't longer than normal but they surely couldn't hand out longer than the maximum sentence allowed for, say, receiving stolen goods.

Magistrates were exceeding the maximum sentences in many cases according to the inquiry I quoted earlier. Criminal barristers including the former chairman of the Criminal Bar Association have all condemned the sentences and are expecting a flood of successful appeals with reduced sentences and some sentences to be quashed altogether.

[JAL]

There are no current cures JAL. All the cures are long term and must be designed to confront the causes not the effects. It's too late for these sorts now. The world has moved on at a pace. We no longer need the same amount of unskilled labour cos other countries provide that, what they don't provide machines will do now, truth is we don't even need cannon fodder anymore. The only function the social underclass performs now is as a soft target for marketeers.

Been through a whole range of emmotions after reading this post Thenodrog. Didnt know wether to laugh or cry, but finally i've settled down to one of complete disappointment from you that it leaves me with a very empty feeling for the future of this country.

[thenodrog]

Been through a whole range of emmotions after reading this post Thenodrog. Didnt know wether to laugh or cry, but finally i've settled down to one of complete disappointment from you that it leaves me with a very empty feeling for the future of this country.

I've had that feeling for some time JAL. There is simply no place in the future for millions sorry billions of people other than as a pointless market place.

I think I've pointed this out before but it's worth much contemplation. Just 150 years ago and after countless millenia of man being on the planet the Earths human population first passed 1 billion. Just a century and a half later the next milestone we will see will be 9 billion! No coincidfence that natural resources are dwindling. I think the right thing to do in this instance is cry btw.

Please note though that ignoring unpleasant issues and just hoping they will go away will do nothing to solve them. Also it might be worthwhile saving this somewhere before Hemel deletes it. He finds some unpleasant topics distasteful and adopting tactics much favoured by certain species of ratites simply deletes them out of hand.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Magistrates were exceeding the maximum sentences in many cases according to the inquiry I quoted earlier. Criminal barristers including the former chairman of the Criminal Bar Association have all condemned the sentences and are expecting a flood of successful appeals with reduced sentences and some sentences to be quashed altogether.

God help this Country....are these scum now suing for Police harassment as well?

[thenodrog]

As I pointed out in my previous post, an examination of more than 1,000 cases dealt with so far by magistrates and published in the national press shows courts are handing down prison sentences to protesters that are on average 25% longer than normal. The magistrates like members on this board seem to have caught up in the general hysteria and extreme views in responding to right-wing calls for tough sentences and have gone way over the top. For instance, Manchester mother of 2 Ursula Nevin was sent to jail for keeping a stolen pair of shorts and took no part in the protests; she was released on appeal within days.There will be hundreds more like her in the coming weeks as the criminal justice system reflects on the harshness of some of the sentences. Cameron has also been warned by the Lib Dems today he faces a battle if he tries to water down Britain's commitment to human rights in the wake of the protests.

It now turns out that 75% of those you insanely referred to as 'protestors' who have been arrested for their crimes had 'previous' form. Thats a full 75% Jim who were old lags with police records. What might they have been protesting about do you think? Prison food perhaps?

I suggest the criminal justice system would be better employed considering that fact rather than the harshness of any sentences. These scrotes when released from those sentences which you deem to be excessive should then spend the next 5 years at least tagged and under strict curfew. Any appeals only to be heard from people with at least the previous 12 months in full time employment.

[thenodrog]

It gets more unbelievable by the day......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8764809/London-rioters-had-average-15-previous-offences-figures-show.html

No wonder they have no respect for authority or the law or even their fellow citizens. 15 let offs on average and but for these riots I'm sure those scores would have continued to rise. Their parents can't be trusted to correct them anymore so it's now obviously the duty of the state. Obviously and as the vast majority already know the soft option simply does not work for the majority. Are you receiving this loud and clear Jim?

[thenodrog]

Various clips from the Duggan inquest has certainly not convinced me of his innocence. I fact quite the opposite.

The usual low life, anarchist rent-a-mob were out in force again. Slightest excuse as usual. Apparently this killing sparked the riots despite 99.9% of rioters and looters never even having heard of him. What type of country would we live in if these dollopers had their way?

[JAL]

Various clips from the Duggan inquest has certainly not convinced me of his innocence. I fact quite the opposite.

The usual low life, anarchist rent-a-mob were out in force again. Slightest excuse as usual. Apparently this killing sparked the riots despite 99.9% of rioters and looters never even having heard of him. What type of country would we live in if these dollopers had their way?

Just because he chucked his gun away doesnt make him innocent maybe the police marksmen could have took him down without killing him but we dont know his full back ground if he was abad un then

It gets more unbelievable by the day......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8764809/London-rioters-had-average-15-previous-offences-figures-show.html

No wonder they have no respect for authority or the law or even their fellow citizens. 15 let offs on average and but for these riots I'm sure those scores would have continued to rise. Their parents can't be trusted to correct them anymore so it's now obviously the duty of the state. Obviously and as the vast majority already know the soft option simply does not work for the majority. Are you receiving this loud and clear Jim?

Looks like an immigration issue which is allowed to continue and grow .....so, so much for whoever sets the agenda for the path in which we are forced to go down .

[adopted scouser]

Various clips from the Duggan inquest has certainly not convinced me of his innocence. I fact quite the opposite.

The usual low life, anarchist rent-a-mob were out in force again. Slightest excuse as usual. Apparently this killing sparked the riots looting despite 99.9% of looters never even having heard of him. What type of country would we live in if these dollopers had their way?

Corrected that for you Gord.

I can understand people's anger.

It's almost like this country's not safe for gun-toting, drug-dealing gangsters planning revenge murders any more....

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

This my take on the Duggan case. The copper with the gun lost the plot in the heat of the moment. Put guns in people's hands and they tend to use them. Even people with plenty of " training ". Duggan was unarmed at the time he was shot. He may or may not have a " gangster " but we abolished the death penalty a long while ago even for " gangsters".

After that the police and establishment closed ranks and we know the rest. I followed this case quite closely and the forensic evidence didn't tally with the shooters evidence.

[Mike E]

I can certainly see why there's an uproar about it, but to be honest.....I'm quite glad that a man who thought it was okay to hold a pistol in public (let alone in the presence of police) is no longer here. I'd say the same about anyone holding a gun for a reason other than game or vermin-shooting.

[thenodrog]

This my take on the Duggan case. The copper with the gun lost the plot in the heat of the moment. Put guns in people's hands and they tend to use them. Even people with plenty of " training ". Duggan was unarmed at the time he was shot. He may or may not have a " gangster " but we abolished the death penalty a long while ago even for " gangsters".

After that the police and establishment closed ranks and we know the rest. I followed this case quite closely and the forensic evidence didn't tally with the shooters evidence.

So effectively you are calling the members of the jury liars ...just like the rent-a-mob did yesterday? Pointless having any trials then? Just base judgement on who shouts loudest.

Plod might have made a mistake but the general concensus appears to be that they got the right result in the end. Live by the sword....

[jim mk2]

General consencus (sic) where...in the taproom of your local, the 19th at Pleasington ?

I would suggest the consensus among normal folk is that they are appalled a British policeman executed a man in the street.

Duggan's family are looking at a judicial view over this appalling decision. Good luck to them.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

No I'm not calling them liars, I'm just saying the evidence I saw and read about doesn't bear out their verdict. It wouldn't be the first time the jury got it wrong.

[thenodrog]

No I'm not calling them liars, I'm just saying the evidence I saw and read about doesn't bear out their verdict. It wouldn't be the first time the jury got it wrong.

Not the first time you got it wrong either Tyrone. With a ratio of 12:1 against you don't have the strongest of cases.

[thenodrog]

General consencus (sic) where...in the taproom of your local, the 19th at Pleasington ?

I would suggest the consensus among normal folk is that they are appalled a British policeman executed a man in the street.

Duggan's family are looking at a judicial view massive wedge of compensation overver this appalling decision. Good luck to them.

Edited in the interests of accuracy.

I see they are planning some sort of public display this Saturday in Tottenham but have pleaded for it to be peaceful. Should ensure that every ne'er do well and unwashed, unemployed anarchist interspersed with a few woolly liberals will turn up with weapons and petrol bombs etc. If they want it to be peaceful then they should have it on some uninhabited island in the Shetlands.

[jim mk2]

I hope the judicial review is found in their favour and I hope they get compensation. They deserve it.

[Mike E]

Killed unlawfully? Nope, still a criminal with a gun. And the only intent you could have if you illegally hold a gun is to hurt or even kill. In which case, I'm glad he's underground.

Why do people always look to profit from someone's death? What the hell would any amount of money do? Face the fact your loved one was a criminal and paid the worst price for being a 'gangsta innit'.