[Archived] London riots

[jim mk2]

Blimey, what a story. Staffies can be lovely dogs but I would not have one in the same house as young children.

[Al]

Staffies were originally bred to be aggressive and are not appealing looking dogs. I would not have one as a pet but a far as friendly dogs are concerned I would prefer to shoot the intolerant Tyrone but would pay for the cleaning.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I think you're looking down the wrong end of the telescope here Al, I'm a really tolerant person. I'm very live and let live re my stance on capital punishment etc, but in an incident like that it has to end Humans 1 - Canines 0.

I glossed over that facts of how my workmate actually fought the dog to spare the feelings of dog lovers everywhere. The actual details were horrific.

[Al]

I think you're looking down the wrong end of the telescope here Al, I'm a really tolerant person. I'm very live and let live re my stance on capital punishment etc, but in an incident like that it has to end Humans 1 - Canines 0.

I glossed over that facts of how my workmate actually fought the dog to spare the feelings of dog lovers everywhere. The actual details were horrific.

Two entirely different scenarios Tyrone.

One is a boisterous dog trying to be friendly and the other is an aggressive dog attacking.

I have no sympathy with the aggressive dog and would have such breeds outlawed.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Not sure about shooting them but I do agree with Tyrone's point about some owners casual attitudes to their dog invading someone else's personal space. Some people are scared of dogs, most I would imagine don't want mud on their clothes from one jumping up at them, dogs off the lead can chew up footballs, once I even had one come over and pee on my trainers. All these issues seem to be treated by many owners as no big deal, the "don't worry it won't hurt you" line being rolled out as standard. Presumably because they wouldn't mind a dog doing that to them. Well I wouldn't mind someone walking around a park carrying a radio blasting out Oasis at about 100db, but I certainly wouldn't assume everyone else would be fine with it.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Imagine you're walking into a bar and a friendly drunk staggers over to you and proceeds to be sick all over your jacket. You'd obviously say " Never mind matey, don't give it a minutes thought, I'm sure you'd didn't mean it ". Wouldn't you ?

[Steve Moss]

Advocating shooting a friendly pet ? And I have to explain this ??!!!

He was not advocating shooting friendly pets. He was advocating shooting unleashed animals who caused him to be apprehensive of harm.

No one wants to shoot a friendly beagle that's on a leash. An unleashed charging Rottweiler? I would blame no one for shooting.

That was one of the few times in my life I wished I had a gun. Where's Steve Moss when you need him ?

I wouldn't have been much help. Even though I'm not the worse when it comes to firearms, I rarely carry one. I'm more likely to have a retractable baton with me if I'm walking with the kids (never used in anger) or a tire knocker in my car. (also never used in anger).

The best policy, IMO, is to avoid neighborhoods and situations where a firearm might be necessary. Though if that situation arises, or if you think it might and simple avoidance won't work, then I don't begrudge anyone carrying a pistol.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

Not sure about shooting them but I do agree with Tyrone's point about some owners casual attitudes to their dog invading someone else's personal space. Some people are scared of dogs, most I would imagine don't want mud on their clothes from one jumping up at them, dogs off the lead can chew up footballs, once I even had one come over and pee on my trainers. All these issues seem to be treated by many owners as no big deal, the "don't worry it won't hurt you" line being rolled out as standard. Presumably because they wouldn't mind a dog doing that to them. Well I wouldn't mind someone walking around a park carrying a radio blasting out Oasis at about 100db, but I certainly wouldn't assume everyone else would be fine with it.

If your dog pops someone's ball you pay for a replacement, inconvenient all round, but a simple fix. I don't know how long you have to stand there for a dog to get a significant amount of pee on your shoes, but I'd suggest when they get real still you move your feet from the splash zone. Don't want mud on your clothes, don't go to a field. Chances are a dog walking on the pavement won't be muddy.

Personally, I don't like getting dog hairs or saliva on me either, but it's quite rare to find an over-excited dog off the lead on the street, and if you do come across one there's a fair chance you could keep it off you without resorting to lethal force.

There has to be somewhere for people to let them off the lead, otherwise all dog owners would be going to prison for animal abuse since their pets wouldn't be getting the necessary exercise.

He was not advocating shooting friendly pets. He was advocating shooting unleashed animals who caused him to be apprehensive of harm.

No one wants to shoot a friendly beagle that's on a leash. An unleashed charging Rottweiler? I would blame no one for shooting.

I wouldn't have been much help. Even though I'm not the worse when it comes to firearms, I rarely carry one. I'm more likely to have a retractable baton with me if I'm walking with the kids (never used in anger) or a tire knocker in my car. (also never used in anger).

The best policy, IMO, is to avoid neighborhoods and situations where a firearm might be necessary. Though if that situation arises, or if you think it might and simple avoidance won't work, then I don't begrudge anyone carrying a pistol.

Rottweilers are among the friendliest animals I've ever been around. Being big and energetic doesn't make them dangerous by nature.

There are plenty of people whose presence causes me to fear for my safety. Am I right to shoot just because I'm a little nervous?

[Al]

Imagine you're walking into a bar and a friendly drunk staggers over to you and proceeds to be sick all over your jacket. You'd obviously say " Never mind matey, don't give it a minutes thought, I'm sure you'd didn't mean it ". Wouldn't you ?

No you are entitled to shoot him are you?

[Steve Moss]

There are plenty of people whose presence causes me to fear for my safety. Am I right to shoot just because I'm a little nervous?

Are you a little nervous or do you have a reasonable fear for your physical safety? The first means nothing. The second means, in Arizona, that you have right to use force. The reasonable degree of that force depends on the circumstances.

My personal advice to you is:

1. Don't put yourself in those situations.

2. Retreat, if reasonably possible.

3. If you can't retreat, don't overreact. If you are thinking of pulling a pistol, in my opinion, 9 out of 10 times you are overreacting and should refer back to 1 and 2.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

If your dog pops someone's ball you pay for a replacement, inconvenient all round, but a simple fix. I don't know how long you have to stand there for a dog to get a significant amount of pee on your shoes, but I'd suggest when they get real still you move your feet from the splash zone. Don't want mud on your clothes, don't go to a field. Chances are a dog walking on the pavement won't be muddy.

Personally, I don't like getting dog hairs or saliva on me either, but it's quite rare to find an over-excited dog off the lead on the street, and if you do come across one there's a fair chance you could keep it off you without resorting to lethal force.

There has to be somewhere for people to let them off the lead, otherwise all dog owners would be going to prison for animal abuse since their pets wouldn't be getting the necessary exercise.

Rottweilers are among the friendliest animals I've ever been around. Being big and energetic doesn't make them dangerous by nature.

There are plenty of people whose presence causes me to fear for my safety. Am I right to shoot just because I'm a little nervous?

Listen matey, the two dogs I refer to weren't friendly which ever way you want to wrap it up.

I was in honest serious fear of my life and if I would have had a gun or a knife or a baton or a baseball bat I would have used it. I was really lucky it never came to that.

[Guest Norbert]

Oh, if they were properly trying to maul you or bite you then I understand. If they were just being all licky, and just overly happy to see you like some dogs are, then I suggest it is you that has the problem as you have a fear of most/all dogs.

[Amo]

From the London riots to open season on playful poochies.

ONLY ON BRFCS!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Oh, if they were properly trying to maul you or bite you then I understand. If they were just being all licky, and just overly happy to see you like some dogs are, then I suggest it is you that has the problem as you have a fear of most/all dogs.

What gives them the right be " licky and overly happy to see me" ? Why don't they just keep out of my way and I'll keep out of theirs ? Is that really too much to ask ? If I was all " licky and happy to see " your wife would you be happy ?

[jim mk2]

Barking mad. This thread has gone to the dogs.

[thenodrog]

Personally I don't trust a person who a. doesn't like dogs and/or b. someone dogs generally take exception to.

[Al]

Personally I don't trust a person who a. doesn't like dogs and/or b. someone dogs generally take exception to.

With you there Gordon.

[adopted scouser]

With you there Gordon.

Seconded.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Well thats absolutely bloody moronic. How many young kids have been mauled by dogs? Hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands maybe worldwide? They must have been shifty, horrible, untrustworthy little 4 and 5 year olds eh? Not sure I've heard many things more ridiculous in my life than those last 3 comments.

Pretty hilarious from Al as well who I seem to remember spent most of a thread about people standing up at football matches going ballistic at anyone with the cheek to impede his view or require him to get off his backside for more than 5 seconds. And yet is fine with the idea of dogs taking precedent over other people if the dog decides someone's dislikeable.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Adolf Hitler was a dog lover.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

If your dog pops someone's ball you pay for a replacement, inconvenient all round, but a simple fix. I don't know how long you have to stand there for a dog to get a significant amount of pee on your shoes, but I'd suggest when they get real still you move your feet from the splash zone. Don't want mud on your clothes, don't go to a field. Chances are a dog walking on the pavement won't be muddy.

Personally, I don't like getting dog hairs or saliva on me either, but it's quite rare to find an over-excited dog off the lead on the street, and if you do come across one there's a fair chance you could keep it off you without resorting to lethal force.

There has to be somewhere for people to let them off the lead, otherwise all dog owners would be going to prison for animal abuse since their pets wouldn't be getting the necessary exercise.

Oh right, just pay for a replacement. And then the next day someone else's dog pops it, and they buy a replacement, and so on. I'm sure there are plenty of other factors, but the transition from parks being for kids to parks being for dogs certainly has its more sinister side in my opinion. Back in my football at the park days we certainly used to experience our fair share of dogs randomly charging onto the pitch freaking out about half the kids, dog dirt everywhere and more than a few popped balls. They're hardly 2 activities that go hand in hand if you've got dogs off leads charging about everywhere.

As for the pee incident, I was having a picnic with my girlfriend, (having found a spot not covered in dog muck), was getting something out of the bag and the thing was about 30cm tall, didn't even see it until it was halfway through. The owner thought I'd find it funny, which just about sums up the point I'm trying to make.

Oh ok, don't go anywhere a dog might go if you want to get muddy and its illegal not to let dogs off leads. So outdoor spaces are for dogs basically? Well I'd better get the ugliest, most dangerous one I can buy then and start constantly repeating its cute and loveable to everyone, seems to be the modern trend.

[Mike E]

Where has this notion of keeping dogs on a lead being 'abuse' come from?

I kept my dogs on leads for the very reasons stated in this thread and I loved them very much. I most certainly was not abusing them or depriving them of exercise. Idiotic comment!

[Amo]

I shot two dachshunds on my way home from work. Didn't like how they were looking at me.

[broadsword]

Oh right, just pay for a replacement. And then the next day someone else's dog pops it, and they buy a replacement, and so on. I'm sure there are plenty of other factors, but the transition from parks being for kids to parks being for dogs certainly has its more sinister side in my opinion. Back in my football at the park days we certainly used to experience our fair share of dogs randomly charging onto the pitch freaking out about half the kids, dog dirt everywhere and more than a few popped balls. They're hardly 2 activities that go hand in hand if you've got dogs off leads charging about everywhere.

As for the pee incident, I was having a picnic with my girlfriend, (having found a spot not covered in dog muck), was getting something out of the bag and the thing was about 30cm tall, didn't even see it until it was halfway through. The owner thought I'd find it funny, which just about sums up the point I'm trying to make.

Oh ok, don't go anywhere a dog might go if you want to get muddy and its illegal not to let dogs off leads. So outdoor spaces are for dogs basically? Well I'd better get the ugliest, most dangerous one I can buy then and start constantly repeating its cute and loveable to everyone, seems to be the modern trend.

Calm down, you've gone right off the handle and are making generalisations left, right and centre.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Calm down, you've gone right off the handle and are making generalisations left, right and centre.

Aye fair enough. The irresponsible owners do really, really bug me, even more than irresponsible parents, but I suppose they're probably a smallish minority.