[Archived] London riots

[alexanders]

Thanks for the map Philip.

Hope it stays away from City of London.

I am staying there from Thursday to Monday.

[Mike Graham]

No. This is a disaffected society. The Scots showed their hatred of a Tory govt in Westminster by voting SNP; in England the masses have taken this chance to show their anger by taking to the streets. The French have a long tradition of street protest against unpopular governments so the events of the past few days are unusual here but not unwelcome. David Cameron's vision of a Big Society with middle class do-gooders performing formerly vital functions of the state is looking rather silly now.

Jim, sorry but you are in the clouds.

I speak as a life long Labour supporter (past Council candidate,General Election Agent and shortlisted candidate for MP in the UK's safest Labour seat of Bootle) and an ardent trade unionist. These rioters and looters are thugs and hooligans, providing them with better public services will not provide the answer nor will blaming it on the present Government. Generations of politicians have failed this country and politicians are far too removed from reality, I visit the House of Commons on a regular basis and I can tell you that virtually all MP's (all party) are up their own backsides.

in the short term they must understand that they cannot get away with it. we need to support and back the police and we need to be hard on these violent morons; water cannon, tear gas and rubber bullets are required. There are people behind the organisation and we need police and security forces who have the resources to deal with these threats to our Country; yes we need checks and balances but these (Human Rights Act etc) must not get in the way.

PS. After 35 years of voting I would not vote Labour for the forseeable future.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

The police need to get tough with them. Saying there's political motivation behind it is giving them too much credit and saying there's economic motivation is making excuses for them. This country has one of the best welfare systems in the world (too generous for most people's liking) and as an advanced, civilised democracy if people really want to get off their backside and make something of their lives they can do. But no, plenty of people would rather just live like animals, on handouts and spend their time in violent gangs harassing normal folk. This is just chav/gang culture on a bigger scale, the average age of the rioters looks about 16 so their parents should be locked up along with them for bringing up their kids to be anti-social *******. Get the water cannons in, get the rubber bullets out and give them a good kicking, they're a disgrace and an embarassment to this country.

[jim mk2]

These rioters and looters are thugs and hooligans

Why do you think a small protest supposedly around a specific issue in Tottenham has turned into mass violence around the country ? The inner cities are a pressure cooker and have exploded for a reason, and right-wing conservatives not taking any interest at all in the real human and socio-economic causes behind this and simply labelling them as thugs and hooligans is folly. People needs apriration and hope and when they are being told that they have neither and must also pay the price for the greed of others, they will react.

[AspRover]

Well they smashed in my local boozer and subjected the people within to a 'mass mugging' if reports are to be believed. Didn't see any trouble this far down the street though. Fell asleep about two in the morning. Going to pop round to the corner shop to get some milk and stuff, see if I can survey the damage a bit.

[Mattyblue]

Can you answer my earlier question jim, do riots and protests only happen under tory governments?

[arachnica]

Why do you think a small protest supposedly around a specific issue in Tottenham has turned into mass violence around the country ? The inner cities are a pressure cooker and have exploded for a reason, and right-wing conservatives not taking any interest at all in the real human and socio-economic causes behind this and simply labelling them as thugs and hooligans is folly. People needs apriration and hope and when they are being told that they have neither and must also pay the price for the greed of others, they will react.

1. Most of the protesters couldn't even name the current Prime Minister far less give a damn about their political allegiances.

2. My local hi-fi store was ransacked, they drove up in a white van looked around to make sure no-one was about then lifted the TVs. They then ransacked a sports clothes store and a T-Mobile shop. The Council offices, the home of a completely Conservative dominated council next door were untouched. Hardly a political protest.

3. Why do people think that these kids want jobs?

4. Compare the behaviour of the looters with those of the Turkish community in Dalston, they came over in the last 20 years with not a penny to their name. They worked hard and now own a number of thriving businesses and came out in force to protect their community from these criminals. They looters are thugs and hooligans and nothing more.

[Mattyblue]

1. Most of the protesters couldn't even name the current Prime Minister far less give a damn about their political allegiances.

2. My local hi-fi store was ransacked, they drove up in a white van looked around to make sure no-one was about then lifted the TVs. They then ransacked a sports clothes store and a T-Mobile shop. The Council offices, the home of a completely Conservative dominated council next door were untouched. Hardly a political protest.

3. Why do people think that these kids want jobs?

4. Compare the behaviour of the looters with those of the Turkish community in Dalston, they came over in the last 20 years with not a penny to their name. They worked hard and now own a number of thriving businesses and came out in force to protect their community from these criminals. They looters are thugs and hooligans and nothing more.

99% of people would agree with that, only a small minority of left wing empty heads like jim would suggest anything diffrent.

[koi]

Typical trolling from Jim I see, pathetic especially when you consider the vast majority of these little thugs are the Blair generation - but I wouldn't lay the blame at either party this is a much bigger issue with greedy little thugs who couldn't give a toss about anyone other than themselves.

We have feral kids who know full well that they can get away with what they want. I'm quite happy to help and support those who want it but these rioters don't. Time to get tough and stop worrying about the ridiculous apologists that will be defending these louts and blaming anyone other than those ruining this country.

[thenodrog]

This is what happens when you cut Police numbers, and make every serving officer scared to do his job for fear of prosecution. Saddens and angers me to see the troops in full riot gear forced to just stand there as effluent lobs bricks and firebombs at them. Do gooders everywhere, congratulations

There are plenty of numbers Nick. This would have been sorted 50 years ago before excessive paperwork, H&S exec, civil rights and claim lawyers ruled the roost.

[thenodrog]

The map of the riots in London

- why the Met armed Police are far more trigger happy than the armed Police elsewhere

- how the Police in Tottenham completely screwed up the hndling of the aftermath of Mark Duggan's death. Days passed from the death to all this kicking off.

Any link to Mark Duggan and this looting/rioting was cut 2 days ago. 99% of those dollopers will never have heard of him.

Also it's not about police numbers it's about police effectiveness. They must be shitscared of truncheoning somebody or whatever with their every action recorded on a dozen cameras and pored over by legions of injury lawyers.

[philipl]

'drog- there was plenty of civil disobedience back then in the golden era of truncheons and hanging.

Agreed the current lot couldn't give a toss about Duggan but the catalyst which set this off was Duggan.

It is very difficult to get things like this started but the Police mishandled the Duggan situation and the family liaison terribly. Why they didn't ask that demo outside the Police station to elect a group from their number and have them go in for a meeting is beyond me instead they let that situation fester for five hours. That was criminally irresponsible.

The Murdoch scandal has broken at absolutely the wrong time- it is not just the Police leadership at the top who have gone but its the ones near the top still in post but knowing it is only a matter of time before arrest and long prison sentences and are completely incapable of taking the sort of operational decisions that were needed in the last few days. The Met has been caught desperately leaderless.

Another point worth making is that a decision seems to have been made that all Police movement should be at high speed with all lights and sirens going. This is heightening the sense of chaos and fear.

[thenodrog]

No. This is a disaffected society. The Scots showed their hatred of a Tory govt in Westminster by voting SNP;

On the day the sweaties voted overwhemingly SNP the govt in Westminster was Labour and led by Gordon Brown a fellow scot.

Thanks for the map Philip.

Hope it stays away from City of London.

I am staying there from Thursday to Monday.

Still want to live here alexanders?

[dazmaz]

Why do you think a small protest supposedly around a specific issue in Tottenham has turned into mass violence around the country ? The inner cities are a pressure cooker and have exploded for a reason, and right-wing conservatives not taking any interest at all in the real human and socio-economic causes behind this and simply labelling them as thugs and hooligans is folly. People needs apriration and hope and when they are being told that they have neither and must also pay the price for the greed of others, they will react.

It turned into a riot because many people protesting were out to cause trouble, the other riots since have been because people have seen may get away with it. All riots since saturday have been organised purely due to people knowing the police are powerless to prevent it.

The government have not cause this, end of story so stop with your conspiricy theory

[thenodrog]

Jim, sorry but you are in the clouds.

I speak as a life long Labour supporter (past Council candidate,General Election Agent and shortlisted candidate for MP in the UK's safest Labour seat of Bootle) and an ardent trade unionist. These rioters and looters are thugs and hooligans, providing them with better public services will not provide the answer nor will blaming it on the present Government. Generations of politicians have failed this country and politicians are far too removed from reality, I visit the House of Commons on a regular basis and I can tell you that virtually all MP's (all party) are up their own backsides.

in the short term they must understand that they cannot get away with it. we need to support and back the police and we need to be hard on these violent morons; water cannon, tear gas and rubber bullets are required. There are people behind the organisation and we need police and security forces who have the resources to deal with these threats to our Country; yes we need checks and balances but these (Human Rights Act etc) must not get in the way.

PS. After 35 years of voting I would not vote Labour for the forseeable future.

An honest post PB.

..... albeit rather contradictory.

protest.

3. Why do people think that these kids want jobs?

A popular misconception isn't it? Third generation dossers.... nothing could be further from their minds.

[Mattyblue]

Police rule by consent, once the immoral and disrespectful in society realise that the police have lost control, all hell will break loose.

Send in the Paras.

[chaddyrovers]

Co-ordinating looting via Blackberries while decked out head to toe in designer gear- British 'poverty' in a nutshell

Good point there Matty. These are just young thugs with no respect for people or property. These are just the scum of England! Most of these people are not working and are under 18 years old who just think doing these things are fun for them!!!

Why do you think a small protest supposedly around a specific issue in Tottenham has turned into mass violence around the country ? The inner cities are a pressure cooker and have exploded for a reason, and right-wing conservatives not taking any interest at all in the real human and socio-economic causes behind this and simply labelling them as thugs and hooligans is folly. People needs apriration and hope and when they are being told that they have neither and must also pay the price for the greed of others, they will react.

More crap Jim. the problems is these thugs are wrecking people's lives, properties, cars and going to work.

1. Most of the protesters couldn't even name the current Prime Minister far less give a damn about their political allegiances.

2. My local hi-fi store was ransacked, they drove up in a white van looked around to make sure no-one was about then lifted the TVs. They then ransacked a sports clothes store and a T-Mobile shop. The Council offices, the home of a completely Conservative dominated council next door were untouched. Hardly a political protest.

3. Why do people think that these kids want jobs?

4. Compare the behaviour of the looters with those of the Turkish community in Dalston, they came over in the last 20 years with not a penny to their name. They worked hard and now own a number of thriving businesses and came out in force to protect their community from these criminals. They looters are thugs and hooligans and nothing more.

Great post and agree with it.

[thenodrog]

'drog- there was plenty of civil disobedience back then in the golden era of truncheons and hanging.

Agreed the current lot couldn't give a toss about Duggan but the catalyst which set this off was Duggan.

It is very difficult to get things like this started but the Police mishandled the Duggan situation and the family liaison terribly. Why they didn't ask that demo outside the Police station to elect a group from their number and have them go in for a meeting is beyond me instead they let that situation fester for five hours. That was criminally irresponsible.

The Murdoch scandal has broken at absolutely the wrong time- it is not just the Police leadership at the top who have gone but its the ones near the top still in post but knowing it is only a matter of time before arrest and long prison sentences and are completely incapable of taking the sort of operational decisions that were needed in the last few days. The Met has been caught desperately leaderless.

Another point worth making is that a decision seems to have been made that all Police movement should be at high speed with all lights and sirens going. This is heightening the sense of chaos and fear.

If they exceed the speed limit without blues and two's they are in the wrong.

Murdoch scandal? It is never a wrong time to expose such. If the police are as leaderless as you say then it has to be handed over to the armed forces.

Civil disobedience? All I can rem from my youth was a bit of beatnik led ban the bomb stuff. If there was anything earlier then I don't rem it.

[broadsword]

They'll continue to take the pish until we send the old bill in to break a few arms and legs.

rubber bullets, water cannon, batons ... I don't care what they use, let them off the leash.

We cannot have criminals openly mocking society like this. Hit them as hard as possible.

[philipl]

The appalling situation is that if the Police up the level of violence they use against these yobs, the arsenals these drugs gangs have accumulated are truly horrific. The collateral damage if this escalates into gun fights doesn't bare thinking about.

A subtext to what happened in Tottenham was Operation Trident had been yielding some pretty significant results and these riots are the gangs fighting back.

Thank goodness we are due a very wet night tonight according to forecasts. The heavy downpour when Brixton had started two nights ago undoubtedly saved the whole area.

[alexanders]

Still want to live here alexanders?

Not so sure about living, but I am planning on wining & dining this weekend, yes!

[koi]

The Duggan excuse is a joke - where are the protesters for the almost weekly murders of young black male's, usually by another young black male, no one takes to the street when that happens do they.

[adopted scouser]

They'll continue to take the pish until we send the old bill in to break a few arms and legs.

rubber bullets, water cannon, batons ... I don't care what they use, let them off the leash.

We cannot have criminals openly mocking society like this. Hit them as hard as possible.

Now you're talking. If you had a mad dog terrorising paople you'd beat the bloody thing until it stopped.

It's being reported now that it's older toerags in cars organising looting.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Funny aint it how the vast majority of people would advocate using extreme force and to hell with human rights and political correctness. And yet the tiny minority of do-gooders obsessed with that rubbish always seem to make themselves heard above anyone else. If the police get stuck into these yobs you can guarantee there'll be a host of left-leaning jackasses on the news criticising them.

[koi]

Just booked my tickets for the CC final, Wembley better still be standing...