[Archived] Puppet or Puppeteer

[67splitscreen]

Vinjay at his best:

"On investigating his serious fraud activites his partner in crime was revealed as Ashish Gupta, Could this individual possibly be related to the Gupta currently on the board of Blackburn's Directors?"

That's a ludicrous statement. I'm sure Gupta is a very common name in India. A lot of the fans were fooled by Syed too (including me) until the BBC exposed him.

"As for Anderson bringing forward unethical buyers isn't that the fault of the Walkers for appointing him. They also used Philipl from the BRFCS site supposedly (what credentials did he have to be involved in such a major responsibility) no wonder he constantly talked how how supposedly wonderful they were. If you bring up legitimate points about venkys why not the walkers too?"

I'm sure Philip would like to answer that one.

[mjwood00]

If an individual is proving an intentional block then conveying the real state of the club to the owners is not in his/her best interest. Until it is in their interest, or they are forced to stand aside and pass things on, nothing will change. First one sounds unlikely so latter sounds the best bet through other direct communication.

[Gav]

Right, lets boost it to £7million in player purchases, £21million in player sales- if the Trust had pulled a stunt like that, you'd rightly be saying 'where's the money gone?' Simple maths tells me thats a net spend of MINUS 14 million.

And as for wages, they are out of their clubs own income- The Trust were not paying the wages and neither are Venky's

THEY have spent nowt. And i'm staggered that you are still defending them GAV.

I think we've spent 5m so far, have possibly ANOTHER 7m coming in this week, which is 12m in total, add wages also on 4yr deals, because Venkys could pocket the sky income if they really wanted to you know.

The Jones money went to pay off a loan, rightly or wrongly, but thats just how it was.

So I’m not defending Venkys at all, I’m dealing in the facts of the matter Matty, not some rumour from this site that has all of a sudden become fact

There are enough people on this site who are more than capable of helping venkys make a success of the club. Maybe some of them should contact them to offer their help. Cannot be worse than what we have now.

Give over PAFELL

This site is full of championship manager wannabe's, cranks, and people telling us they're important when really they're not.

The rest are genuine Rovers supporters with no experience of running a football club, and emotionally involved to boot, which wouldn’t help now would it

[J-Rovers]

Yes, as the Chairman he was heavily involved with the negotiation process.

I am going to try and get John on one of the future podcasts, he is a man who has a lot of integrity and I am sure that he will be willing to answer any questions that we have about the sale process.

thank you Kamy!!

JW definitely know what happened inside the club. maybe he can help us to contact the venky's people.

we need save our club now.

whole the club's set up is ridiculous.

scout, manager, PR, we need change as soon as possible.

or we will rebuild our team in Championship or League one.

[Kelbo]

I think we've spent 5m so far, have possibly ANOTHER 7m coming in this week, which is 12m in total, add wages also on 4yr deals, because Venkys could pocket the sky income if they really wanted to you know.

The Jones money went to pay off a loan, rightly or wrongly, but thats just how it was.

So I’m not defending Venkys at all, I’m dealing in the facts of the matter Matty, not some rumour from this site that has all of a sudden become fact

Give over PAFELL

This site is full of championship manager wannabe's, cranks, and people telling us they're important when really they're not.

The rest are genuine Rovers supporters with no experience of running a football club, and emotionally involved to boot, which wouldn’t help now would it

Gav,

I hear what you are saying and despite some of these players not playing first team football, how can they count wages, we have lost, Feilding, Gunning, Doran, Kalinic, Jones, Brown, (plus three loanees last year RSC, MB Diouf, JJ) Benjani, thats 10 Salaries and a massive amount of money saved as well, as most went before close season so no wages to account for then!

Or did we not pay those players?

[imy9]

I think we've spent 5m so far, have possibly ANOTHER 7m coming in this week, which is 12m in total, add wages also on 4yr deals, because Venkys could pocket the sky income if they really wanted to you know.

The Jones money went to pay off a loan, rightly or wrongly, but thats just how it was.

So I’m not defending Venkys at all, I’m dealing in the facts of the matter Matty, not some rumour from this site that has all of a sudden become fact

Give over PAFELL

This site is full of championship manager wannabe's, cranks, and people telling us they're important when really they're not.

The rest are genuine Rovers supporters with no experience of running a football club, and emotionally involved to boot, which wouldn’t help now would it

IF they wanted to asset strip why would they be investing in the infrastructure of the club? Hiring a Sports Director and a further yet to be named high ranking official.

I am clinging to the hope that they are beginning to learn, sacking Kentaro was surely a sign of this?

[Andy]

Sacking Kean would be the real turning point - for Venky's, for us and for the team.

[Kelbo]

IF they wanted to asset strip why would they be investing in the infrastructure of the club? Hiring a Sports Director and a further yet to be named high ranking official.

I am clinging to the hope that they are beginning to learn, sacking Kentaro was surely a sign of this?

Imy,

They may be beginning to learn, not fast enough in my opinion, we have 10 days for them to learn quickly!!

[bob fleming]

Give over PAFELL

This site is full of championship manager wannabe's, cranks, and people telling us they're important when really they're not.

The rest are genuine Rovers supporters with no experience of running a football club, and emotionally involved to boot, which wouldn’t help now would it

I just want to be an important wannabe crank.

I tell you GAV, we'd do a better job of running the place if we held our Board meetings in the back of The Fox at 10.30 after a home match and a full day on the lash!

[John]

We are currently paying the price for their previous incompetence.

[Gav]

Gav,

I hear what you are saying and despite some of these players not playing first team football, how can they count wages, we have lost, Feilding, Gunning, Doran, Kalinic, Jones, Brown, (plus three loanees last year RSC, MB Diouf, JJ) Benjani, thats 10 Salaries and a massive amount of money saved as well, as most went before close season so no wages to account for then!

Or did we not pay those players?

Yes I agree Kelbo, but to say they're not spending money just isn't right.

If they didn’t want to spend anything they would have frozen all transfer funds, and had Kean bringing in the likes of Kevin Philips and James Beattie

I just want to be an important wannabe crank.

I tell you GAV, we'd do a better job of running the place if we held our Board meetings in the back of The Fox at 10.30 after a home match and a full day on the lash!

BED YOU!

[John]

Kevin Philips would probably get more goals compared with our current strike force!

[broadsword]

I think we've spent 5m so far, have possibly ANOTHER 7m coming in this week, which is 12m in total, add wages also on 4yr deals, because Venkys could pocket the sky income if they really wanted to you know.

The Jones money went to pay off a loan, rightly or wrongly, but thats just how it was.

So I’m not defending Venkys at all, I’m dealing in the facts of the matter Matty,

Yes, absolutely facts there, Gav.

They've got rid of two players for a combined £22m apparently and they've spent (according to you) £5m on players. Given the number of players who've gone out of the door I'd estimate that what they've had to lay out on wages with incomings, they've saved on outgoings. So I'd be very surprised if there was any net transfer outlay at all.

And what's this "but that's just how it was"? Were you hoping to sneak that one under the radar then? Venky's have to get a loan out because of their administrative incompetence, but it's not something to criticise them for as "that's just the way it was"?

You're priceless Gav?

[thenodrog]

An Everton supporter said on the radio this evening in the phone in. That he would rather have venkys running Everton than their current owner. Talk about ignorance.

I'd swap.

[Roversi]

The trustee's should have taken one for the team and given the club to us, the fans. Side's like Espanyol, Barca, Real, Bilbao and many other teams are all fan owned. We as fans need to do somthing drastic, we need to take control of our club before we have no club to takeover or even support.

[Balwer]

Why on earth are people angry or surprised by the Trust's decision to sell an asset they didn't want and earn £23m for the privilege? If any of you were trying to sell your house and you only got one offer after three years would you worry about whether they would lovingly restore it or simply knock it down? No, of course not. The Trust had no connection to the club but for their familial relation to Jack. It's just naive to assume they would not sell and continue to have to hold onto a loss making company purely because they weren't sure about how the new owners would treat the club, and clearly the myth about Jack's various covenants and conditions on any sale has been blown well and truly out of the water. I am sure some of the people involved feel some remorse at how things have turned out, but how many of you would have acted any different in their place?

[sparkspakespoke]

Why on earth are people angry or surprised by the Trust's decision to sell an asset they didn't want and earn £23m for the privilege? If any of you were trying to sell your house and you only got one offer after three years would you worry about whether they would lovingly restore it or simply knock it down? No, of course not. The Trust had no connection to the club but for their familial relation to Jack. It's just naive to assume they would not sell and continue to have to hold onto a loss making company purely because they weren't sure about how the new owners would treat the club, and clearly the myth about Jack's various covenants and conditions on any sale has been blown well and truly out of the water. I am sure some of the people involved feel some remorse at how things have turned out, but how many of you would have acted any different in their place?

Spot on. Add to that the continued loss making and the debts to boot and there is no way they could not sell when looking at it from a purely business point of view.

[Gav]

Yes, absolutely facts there, Gav.

They've got rid of two players for a combined £22m apparently and they've spent (according to you) £5m on players. Given the number of players who've gone out of the door I'd estimate that what they've had to lay out on wages with incomings, they've saved on outgoings. So I'd be very surprised if there was any net transfer outlay at all.

And what's this "but that's just how it was"? Were you hoping to sneak that one under the radar then? Venky's have to get a loan out because of their administrative incompetence, but it's not something to criticise them for as "that's just the way it was"?

You're priceless Gav?

You bring so much to any debate Bryan, please continue to contribute, your input is invaluable

[RovertheHill]

Why on earth are people angry or surprised by the Trust's decision to sell an asset they didn't want and earn £23m for the privilege? If any of you were trying to sell your house and you only got one offer after three years would you worry about whether they would lovingly restore it or simply knock it down? No, of course not. The Trust had no connection to the club but for their familial relation to Jack. It's just naive to assume they would not sell and continue to have to hold onto a loss making company purely because they weren't sure about how the new owners would treat the club, and clearly the myth about Jack's various covenants and conditions on any sale has been blown well and truly out of the water. I am sure some of the people involved feel some remorse at how things have turned out, but how many of you would have acted any different in their place?

Plenty on here complaining about Venky's "asset stripping" - does this mean it's justified in some cases?

[Kelbo]

Plenty on here complaining about Venky's "asset stripping" - does this mean it's justified in some cases?

Jack Walker left money in trust for the club which he envisaged would provide income for the club for many years, unfortunately, players wages and transfer fees escalated, coupled with (and this is very important) the low interest rates available on invested capital. Imagine for example £60,000,000 in trust which lost, as probably was the case 8%, thats a further £4,800,000 per annum.

So instead of the invested amount covering our costs and allowing us to be self sufficient, which was Jacks wish, we suddenly begin to lose capital invested and this went on for three or four years. The Trust had little option than to sell, unfortunately they sold to these muppets and I do believe, Rothschilds should in some way be acountable.

[Balwer]

Plenty on here complaining about Venky's "asset stripping" - does this mean it's justified in some cases?

I am not defending Venky's in the least, if that's what you are saying. But I think people misinterpret the seeming 'Duty of Care' that the Trust had towards the fans. The Trust put the interests of us as second to their own business interests, not the other way around. I don't like it as a fan, but it's understandable.

[Mercer]

Absolutely staggered at the perception that our new owners are spending money.

Transfer fees in = c£23m. Fees out =c£5m.

Kean tells us that some 12 players have gone whilst only 3 in. Must be a MASSIVE saving on wages.

Some people on this MB need to wake-up, get real and smell the coffee !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chaddyrovers]

Salgado comments http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/aston-villa-blackburn-rovers-premier-league

[BPF]

Salgado comments http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/aston-villa-blackburn-rovers-premier-league

Steve Kean is either in denial or deluded. Whichever one it is, the Blackburn manager did well to keep a straight face when he said: "I thought today we played well." Blackburn were dreadful. In fact they were so poor that it was difficult to know how much to read into Alex McLeish's first victory as Villa manager

Never have I seen us as such a laughing stock.

It amazes me how anyone can support the joke of a manager we have in charge.

[John]

No doubt,Salgado has been poor in our first 2 games however his comments are a damning critique of the shambles we are in thanks to Venkys. A lot of rubbish has been spouted publicly and no doubt internally to the players too. We are now seeing the results of living in the land of bull S**T, Venkys and Kean are a match made in heaven for each other, or hell for the fans.