[Archived] Steve Kean

[LeChuck]

It's based on anomalies then. Once during a game the ball may fall to someone to have a chance in the box. It doesn't happen enough to be accepted as part of a statistic or probability because it doesn't happen more than a certain percentage of times. Hence it's an anomoly. Hence it's closer to luck than science.

I don't know anything about the stats Sam used to come up with his style of football, so I'll have to invent an example.

If he used data from hundreds of matches involving thousands passes, which stated that 10% of long, diagonal balls into the penalty box resulted in goals, then it's fair to assume to that putting 20-30 of these passes into the opposition area should result in your team scoring.

He's had enough sustained success using the theory to virtually prove it is not luck.

[beatrix]

The bottom line is that Kean does not have the experience or the ability in management terms to ensure our survival in the EPL, in my opinion.

Whether allardyce was better or worse is irrelevant looking forward.

The owners will sooner or later have to come to the conclusion to replace Kean with an experienced EPL manager, along the lines of Oneil, Hughes etc.

If however they choose not to do this their motives will be in question, and we will probably be relegated.

We need to focus on points and nothing else, however we get them. The crowd has already been decimated and will not improve until results/points improve.

We are obviously in for a rocky ride this season lets hope that the new signings can make a difference and we get a proper manager as soon as possible.

[Guest Rovers4Good]

Big Sams style of football was sh**e to say the least and sending Samba up from the back for all throwings and free kicks summed it up for me but his track record apart from Newcastle speaks for itself.

Kean's style of football is no better and we are still not getting results so what changes? The manager for me.

[thenodrog]

Maybe using the statitics of luck can be argued as scientific, but it's cluching at straws imo. The "football" was atrocious at times.

Yes, it got results, but the means to and end were extremely hard to swallow as a fan.

Although I confess that my judgement is clouded by the fact that the man couldn't string a sentence together, had a very indifferent and defeatist attitude to getting a drubbing and never really, if we're being honest with ourselves, displayed any real affinity to the club or us as fans.

Just like Ian Wright!

Ok. Point taken but certainly not agreed with. I find Allardyces comments as a pundit very interseting and displaying much insight as one would expect from a man with so much experience in the top flight.

However move on and let us all know please in response to the bolded bits how you view Keans responses to our weekly defeats? Kean seems to think simply getting it into the box and shots are linked to success doesn't he?

[dubdubdub]

You're basing a stupid argument on stupid allegations that all Rovers ever did, was kick the ball high into the air.

I watched the games, they didn't do it every time but they did it a lot.

Anyway, whether you believe it's based on luck or not is down to the individual. I believe it is and he chose to play that way based on it.

[Rover & Out]

The endless comparisons with Big Sam are boring.

In any case, comparing the two in terms of managerial ability is hardly fair because of the vast difference in experience.

I think people seem to forget this is Steve Kean's first managerial job and we're not exactly what you'd consider a normal club at the moment.

Whilst it is clear he should not have been put in this position by the owners, he has not had the luxury of learning his trade in the lower leagues like almost all the top flight managers.

I'm one of the majority who would like to see him go now but would a direct comparison between say a young inexperienced striker and Wayne Rooney, coming to the conclusion that the young striker is useless because his goal record is not as good as Rooney's, be entirely fair?

[Jackson]

Ok. Point taken but certainly not agreed with. I find Allardyces comments as a pundit very interseting and displaying much insight as one would expect from a man with so much experience in the top flight.

However move on and let us all know please in response to the bolded bits how you view Keans responses to our weekly defeats? Kean seems to think simply getting it into the box and shots are linked to success doesn't he?

My points raised were in relation to the previous manager.

I'm not sure why the "Anti-Sam brigade" are continuously assumed to support Kean.

[dubdubdub]

Ok. Point taken but certainly not agreed with. I find Allardyces comments as a pundit very interseting and displaying much insight as one would expect from a man with so much experience in the top flight.

However move on and let us all know please in response to the bolded bits how you view Keans responses to our weekly defeats? Kean seems to think simply getting it into the box and shots are linked to success doesn't he?

Getting it in the box and shots are linked to success. It's different under the two though. Not saying Kean's way has worked thus far but by the nature of how the ball ends up in the box, through a created chance, they are more likely to score from it.

When the ball is pumped into the box you rely on it falling to a player who has a score (almost) of other players around him. By playing it into the box you reduce the number of other people in the line of sight of the goal and relieve pressure on the player who's shooting.

Surely you can agree with that.

[Guest Rovers4Good]

It's ok humping the ball into the apposing box but you need someone to put it in the back of the net. We don't have a goalscorer who can get more than 10 goals a season and you need at least one of them to stay in the PL.

[thenodrog]

My points raised were in relation to the previous manager.

I'm not sure why the "Anti-Sam brigade" are continuously assumed to support Kean.

It's a direct comparison between the two, it's the Steve Kean thread and the current debate figures the comparisons between the two so don't be shy. Off you go Jackson..... or a few on here will be applying the 'i'm with stupid' emoticon to you.

After that please tell us who you would have replaced

a. Allardyce with.

and

b. Who since you now purport to disapprove of Kean too, you would replace him with.

I really am interested to know. No good constantly criticising without offering any solutions is it?

....... Not saying Kean's way has worked thus far

That could well be the understatement of the year.

[Guest Rovers4Good]

I wouldn't have got rid of Allardyce to start with as i know full well he'd keep us in the league year in year out and i can't say the same for Kean.

[jim mk2]

Although I confess that my judgement is clouded by the fact that the man couldn't string a sentence together, had a very indifferent and defeatist attitude to getting a drubbing .

This is nonsense. Allardyce speaks eloquently on all aspects of football and combined with his high standing within the English game is one the reasons he continues to be employed as a TV pundit. I think you are confusing his verbal skills with those of Paul Ince, who always gives the impression of having a low IQ and whose appointment is a black mark on John Williams's time as chairman. Sam shugged off the inevitable odd bad result for what they were - blips on an otherwise very good long-term record as a Premier League manager.

I wouldn't have got rid of Allardyce to start with as i know full well he'd keep us in the league year in year out .

Precisely.

[dubdubdub]

That could well be the understatement of the year.

You're a tosser...wait...I just topped my last understatement.

[rebelmswar]

That could well be the understatement of the year.

I covet that title so I am going with -

Kean is a mediocre manager.

I feel like I am on Videodrome but instead of electrodes and chains the torture devices are Keans team selections and post match delusions spouted into the black eye of a Sky camera.

I am waiting for my DVR to start moaning and groaning as I whip it with a 10 foot extension cord.

This can not be real, he can not still remain.

Long live the new flesh!

[Kelbo]

The endless comparisons with Big Sam are boring.

In any case, comparing the two in terms of managerial ability is hardly fair because of the vast difference in experience.

I think people seem to forget this is Steve Kean's first managerial job and we're not exactly what you'd consider a normal club at the moment.

Whilst it is clear he should not have been put in this position by the owners, he has not had the luxury of learning his trade in the lower leagues like almost all the top flight managers.I'm one of the majority who would like to see him go now but would a direct comparison between say a young inexperienced striker and Wayne Rooney, coming to the conclusion that the young striker is useless because his goal record is not as good as Rooney's, be entirely fair?

He chose to go for this job in an allegedly underhand way and instrumental in the removal of key personel at Ewood, you live and die by the sword, what goes around comes around, I have no sympathy for Kean at all and I would be amazed after Rovers if he finds a decent job in the game, who would trust him now??

[K-Hod]

My god, how many times does it need to be discussed? Allardyce is a better manager than Kean is! This has been proven time and again.

The problem we have is that Steve Kean needs to succeed, though I doubt he will, especially considering that he's given me nothing to convince me otherwise during his tenure.

We can only hope that Steve Kean's time here is short, and he is binned after the Fulham game.

I live in hope!

[thebigguy]

Steve kean has also been in charge for more games than paul Ince and has a worst results.paul inces information taken from wiki is below

Paul Ince

Blackburn Rovers 22 June 2008 16 December 2008 G21 W6 L11 D4 Win %28.57

[glen9mullan]

I do think the "Hoof Ball" Jibes Sam gets are unfair. Whilst he was at Bolton and they had Djorkaeff, Okacha, Diouf ect, his side played some excellent football hence the amount of top 10 finishes his sides achieved.

When he took over Rovers we were heading for the Championship no doubt about it, we had a squad which lacked any real quality and you can only play with what you have. It was about getting points on the board to keep us up.

I remember being in the stands when we played Wigan away, and it was the worst performance I can ever remember seeing in the flesh. I did not believe the squad of players we had at that stage could keep us up.

That summer we sold the only shining lights we had in the squad, and had very little investment, Sam brought through the likes of Hoilett and Jones and got us a top 10 finish, again having to use the squad of players we had which had very few ball players.

12 months on we now have Kean as Manager and with ridiculas agent fee's, loan fee's and transfer fee's Kean has spent close on to £40 Million , that is more than Hughes, Ince and Big Sam had put together.

Kean has no excuses now, he has been given what no Rovers Manager has had since Jack Walker was here.

I'm pretty sure if the previous Managers had seen that level of investment over a 9 month period we would not be currently sitting on Zero points.

[chris]

Honestly rather then discussing Sam Allardyce again, can't you people just go through the archieves and re-read what was written before.

Because you will learn its not relevant anymore and just goes in circles.

Some people liked Sam , I did, some didn't I accept this.

[PAFELL]

The bottom line is that Kean does not have the experience or the ability in management terms to ensure our survival in the EPL, in my opinion.

Whether allardyce was better or worse is irrelevant looking forward.

The owners will sooner or later have to come to the conclusion to replace Kean with an experienced EPL manager, along the lines of Oneil, Hughes etc.

If however they choose not to do this their motives will be in question, and we will probably be relegated.

We need to focus on points and nothing else, however we get them. The crowd has already been decimated and will not improve until results/points improve.

We are obviously in for a rocky ride this season lets hope that the new signings can make a difference and we get a proper manager as soon as possible.

Hard to disagree with this post. As much as I did not like Sam's style of football. It did achieve what was required. First it kept us up and secondly, especailly at home, made us hard to beat. Therefore credit must be given. He was under restrictions financially, therefore Sam's style of football, as horrible as I found it, was successful and therefore right at the time for the club.

Sacking him in the manner that it was done, was an absolute disgrace. Totally undeserved. If the owners had a decent replacement to takeover Sam, it would have made his sacking a little more acceptable. But that was not the case.

Who could the owners have replaced Sam with is a good question. I suppose it would come down to who was available - apart from Kean - at the time. O'neil and Curbishley were available at the time. Either would have been better than Kean.

Sadly the fact is the mistakes that have been made cannot be rectified and we all have to move on. Kean has showed that he is not up to the job. He lacks the experience required. One day he may become a decent manager, but needs to learn his trade lower down the leagues first.

Now there is O'neil, Curbishley and Hughes currently not in jobs, who have managed in the prem before. Any of these three would be better than Kean. Either of them could do a good job at Rovers, with the squad we have now.

It is not really possible to compare Sam and Kean. One has the experience in management, whereas the other has not.

[John]

I do think the "Hoof Ball" Jibes Sam gets are unfair. Whilst he was at Bolton and they had Djorkaeff, Okacha, Diouf ect, his side played some excellent football hence the amount of top 10 finishes his sides achieved.

When he took over Rovers we were heading for the Championship no doubt about it, we had a squad which lacked any real quality and you can only play with what you have. It was about getting points on the board to keep us up.

I remember being in the stands when we played Wigan away, and it was the worst performance I can ever remember seeing in the flesh. I did not believe the squad of players we had at that stage could keep us up.

That summer we sold the only shining lights we had in the squad, and had very little investment, Sam brought through the likes of Hoilett and Jones and got us a top 10 finish, again having to use the squad of players we had which had very few ball players.

12 months on we now have Kean as Manager and with ridiculas agent fee's, loan fee's and transfer fee's Kean has spent close on to £40 Million , that is more than Hughes, Ince and Big Sam had put together.

Kean has no excuses now, he has been given what no Rovers Manager has had since Jack Walker was here.

I'm pretty sure if the previous Managers had seen that level of investment over a 9 month period we would not be currently sitting on Zero points.

Very good and balanced post.

[booth]

I do think the "Hoof Ball" Jibes Sam gets are unfair. Whilst he was at Bolton and they had Djorkaeff, Okacha, Diouf ect, his side played some excellent football hence the amount of top 10 finishes his sides achieved.

When he took over Rovers we were heading for the Championship no doubt about it, we had a squad which lacked any real quality and you can only play with what you have. It was about getting points on the board to keep us up.

I remember being in the stands when we played Wigan away, and it was the worst performance I can ever remember seeing in the flesh. I did not believe the squad of players we had at that stage could keep us up.

That summer we sold the only shining lights we had in the squad, and had very little investment, Sam brought through the likes of Hoilett and Jones and got us a top 10 finish, again having to use the squad of players we had which had very few ball players.

12 months on we now have Kean as Manager and with ridiculas agent fee's, loan fee's and transfer fee's Kean has spent close on to £40 Million , that is more than Hughes, Ince and Big Sam had put together.

Kean has no excuses now, he has been given what no Rovers Manager has had since Jack Walker was here.

I'm pretty sure if the previous Managers had seen that level of investment over a 9 month period we would not be currently sitting on Zero points.

First home game of the season, the season after Allardyce had kept us up I remember him trying to get Rovers playing football against Man City. We actually did play better but City ended up the victors as they had players up front who could stick it in the net. Went to Sunderland and again we played well and got beat. After a short time he seemed to abandon any hope of trying to play a different style and reverted to what he knew best to win matches.

Although sometimes I hated SA's football I would prefer his organization and experience to Kean's struggle to step up as a manager. And the majority of the time the football hasn't been much better anyway.

[forumquizmaster]

I do think the "Hoof Ball" Jibes Sam gets are unfair. Whilst he was at Bolton and they had Djorkaeff, Okacha, Diouf ect, his side played some excellent football hence the amount of top 10 finishes his sides achieved.

When he took over Rovers we were heading for the Championship no doubt about it, we had a squad which lacked any real quality and you can only play with what you have. It was about getting points on the board to keep us up.

I remember being in the stands when we played Wigan away, and it was the worst performance I can ever remember seeing in the flesh. I did not believe the squad of players we had at that stage could keep us up.

That summer we sold the only shining lights we had in the squad, and had very little investment, Sam brought through the likes of Hoilett and Jones and got us a top 10 finish, again having to use the squad of players we had which had very few ball players.

12 months on we now have Kean as Manager and with ridiculas agent fee's, loan fee's and transfer fee's Kean has spent close on to £40 Million , that is more than Hughes, Ince and Big Sam had put together.

Kean has no excuses now, he has been given what no Rovers Manager has had since Jack Walker was here.

I'm pretty sure if the previous Managers had seen that level of investment over a 9 month period we would not be currently sitting on Zero points.

A fair post, apart from the bit about Hoilett that I have highlighted. That would be my biggest criticism of Sam, and the biggest (only?) plus point for Kean. Sam rarely picked Hoilett, which was criminal when you consider who he did pick ahead of him! Kean at least did recognise that the lad is arguably our best player. Having said all that, Kean will be lucky to see September out unless things pick up on the results front.

[Tony Diamond Inc]

Who the hell cares whether you as an individual have a season ticket or not? BRFC don't, the Venkeys don't, Steve Kean and the players certainly don't. Just look at the facts TDI. I'll put it in a nutshell for you.....Season ticket sales are tumbled way way down this summer after rising steadily through Allardyces tenure. We are down by thousands and your individual contribution is just a fly speck compared to that. You are so gormless with an agenda'd based on irrational hatred that you can't even produce a reasoned opinion based on facts.

Quite the opposite. %age football negates luck by definition. Yet more evidence of your inability to think logically and with clarity.

Ha!

Percentage football=sometimes it drops for you, sometimes it don't, or sometimes your luck is in, sometimes it ain't.

Is age affecting your ability to understand basic mathematics?

Additionally, I never asked for sympathy over my ST intentions, nor do I dispute the current trend. However, the reason for an decline in ST sales now, is certainly not down to having to endure the Neanderthal tactics adopted by Narcissus.

Try to understand the point Gordon.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I do think the "Hoof Ball" Jibes Sam gets are unfair. Whilst he was at Bolton and they had Djorkaeff, Okacha, Diouf ect, his side played some excellent football hence the amount of top 10 finishes his sides achieved.

I always thought that Sam got a rough deal from the national media. However - my biggest frustration was seeing us end one season starting to play more attractive football, with the ball more on the deck - and then seeing him revert to type the following season. I am sure everybody got sick of MGP's long throws and Robinson's long punts. It wasn't that they weren't at times effective - it was just the lack of imagination and variation that frustrated me.

Though the timing was c**p - I do partially agree with the decision to dispense with Sam's services - the main problem was who they replaced him with - and the reasons for that person being given the opportunity.