[Archived] The Relegation Thread

[RovertheHill]

And..... ?

So he's right up there with Carey, Furphy, Lee, Kendall, Dalglish and Hughes. All the best managers of the last half century who left our club for greener grass whilst their stock waqs high. Nothing wrong with that when you consider that we sacked all the others remember. What manager worth his salt would not have ambitions to manage higher up the tree?

And.... the point is that selling to Venky's was the pivotal turning point in our club's fortunes. The start of a chain of events that included sacking Allardyce (or even if he hadn't been sacked, would have left imho).

It's all very well posters who wanted the club sold to chicken farmers attacking those who were happy with Allardyce being sacked when the truth is you cannot draw a distinction between the two - they are inextricably linked and ignoring one whilst being unbearably smug about the other isn't really on in my book.

[den]

And.... the point is that selling to Venky's was the pivotal turning point in our club's fortunes. The start of a chain of events that included sacking Allardyce (or even if he hadn't been sacked, would have left imho).

It's all very well posters who wanted the club sold to chicken farmers attacking those who were happy with Allardyce being sacked when the truth is you cannot draw a distinction between the two - they are inextricably linked and ignoring one whilst being unbearably smug about the other isn't really on in my book.

It was the trust who wanted to sell RTH, not the fans. If the trustees had been prepared to continue investing and had wanted to run the club, no-one would have wanted them out. However, it became perfectly clear that they weren't interested in rovers any more, so there was no alternative, no matter what the fans thought. We had to accept that, although some posters at the time continued to argue that we were better off sticking with them - how was that sensible?

Once it had sunk in that they were going to sell, then discussions began about potential buyers. Now, not one person on here had any idea if any of the potential buyers were credible, it was simply guess work as to who would be the best owner for rovers. We were going to get new owners, so it was surely reasonable that people would have their own ideas as to who would good, or otherwise.

How does that compare with people wanting Sam sacked?

[MarkBRFC71]

"no revisions of history" eh?

It's clear enough now that you are nothing more than a base LIAR! Someone who is willing to fabricate lies and ignore facts in an effort to deceive and mislead others.

To retain any credibility for your miserable and churlish stance you must post a retraction.

I could post a retraction, or I could back up my post with FACTS, and once again expose you for the insufferable half-wit you really are.

08/09

P W D L Pts PPG (points per game)

21 7 7 7 28 1.33

09/10

P W D L Pts PPG

38 13 11 14 50 1.31

10/11

P W D L Pts PPG

17 6 3 8 21 1.24

That to me looks like the PPG is getting worse year on year, as I claimed?

To retain any credibility for your arrogant and boorish stance you must post a retraction AND apology, "cock". Although I'm not going to hold my breath - as you've displayed so many times on here you don't possess the class and dignity to admit you were wrong.

[RovertheHill]

It was the trust who wanted to sell RTH, not the fans. If the trustees had been prepared to continue investing and had wanted to run the club, no-one would have wanted them out. However, it became perfectly clear that they weren't interested in rovers any more, so there was no alternative, no matter what the fans thought. We had to accept that, although some posters at the time continued to argue that we were better off sticking with them - how was that sensible?

Once it had sunk in that they were going to sell, then discussions began about potential buyers. Now, not one person on here had any idea if any of the potential buyers were credible, it was simply guess work as to who would be the best owner for rovers. We were going to get new owners, so it was surely reasonable that people would have their own ideas as to who would good, or otherwise.

How does that compare with people wanting Sam sacked?

Some people thought that selling the club to Venky's would result in new owners who would improve and revitalise things.

Some people thought that getting rid of Allardyce would result in a new manager would would improve and revitalise things.

Both are equally out of the control of the fans and I'd suggest both are equally wrong (so far) but it appears you can attack the latter on this board whilst conveniently disassociating yourself from the former.

I do know what you are saying Den and I realise that once the trust had made the decision to sell then really we had no choice in the matter. I'm not suggesting otherwise. So you just hope for the best even though most takeovers generally include a change of senior figures. Some thought it was a good idea to sell to an Indian company as it would open up a very big market and increase the clubs revenue opportunities. Maybe it still will, but I doubt it.

[Miker]

But they could be on the verge of bringing the club to its knees, fair exchange for getting 'a few bodies in', wouldnt you say?

I'm not saying we're in a good situation. I'm saying that owners-wise we weren't in a good situation to begin with. Nothing against the Trust whatsoever, but they wanted to sell and weren't willing to invest anymore to a point where our budget stopped being competitive and became negative.

Fact was we were going to get sold and probably should have been as far as investment was concerned. By the sound of it we took the lesser evil at least, even if it's still an evil.

[thenodrog]

To retain any credibility for your arrogant and boorish stance you must post a retraction AND apology, "cock". Although I'm not going to hold my breath - as you've displayed so many times on here you don't possess the class and dignity to admit you were wrong.

Argue with statto then if you want. No speculation. No conjecture. No what if's. Just concrete facts.

Just compare the points totals of the two seasons afer the first 17 matches (when Allardyce was sacked) and you'll see that BRFC were 2 points up on the previous years total.

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/blackburn-rovers/2009-2010/results

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/blackburn-rovers/2010-2011/results

Retraction still due. Away you go.

[MarkBRFC71]

Argue with statto then if you want. No speculation. No conjecture. No what if's. Just concrete facts.

Just compare the points totals of the two seasons afer the first 17 matches (when Allardyce was sacked) and you'll see that BRFC were 2 points up on the previous years total.

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/blackburn-rovers/2009-2010/results

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/blackburn-rovers/2010-2011/results

Retraction still due. Away you go.

Is that the sound of someone desperately clutching at straws and changing the goalposts I can hear?

I said his points-per-game ratio, season-on-season had decreased. My stats (taken from the actual results) confirmed that. No speculation. No conjecture. No what if's. Just concrete facts. Based on WHAT I ACTUALLY CLAIMED.

Apology still due for calling me a liar. Still don't believe you've got the balls, class or dignity to do it though. Away you go - surprise everyone.

Once you've apologised perhaps we can call a truce. There's bigger issues at the club at the present time than arguing over the record of a long-gone ex-manager. We should be concerning ourselves on how we get rid of the current incumbent and the Mephistophelian influence and meddlings of Mr. Anderson.

[roverandout]

miker, you talk about all these players we have brought in since they got the club but you forget about the amount of players we have sold/released, we are in no better position in that respect in terms of quanity wise than we were under the trust, quality wise, we may be slightly better but not by much i would say and the table proves it.

[FourLaneBlue]

All this is just obfuscation.

Sam is gone. We know those who wanted him to stay and those who wanted him to leave by now.

The real issue is the present. We have Kean as a manager, Venly's as owners and Jerome effing Anderson running the show...

[Miker]

miker, you talk about all these players we have brought in since they got the club but you forget about the amount of players we have sold/released, we are in no better position in that respect in terms of quanity wise than we were under the trust, quality wise, we may be slightly better but not by much i would say and the table proves it.

That's fair enough, but again, as I said... if we're not slightly better off investment-wise then we're at least not worse off. I think if you're concentrating too much on actual fees you won't get the full picture. Just because players like Rochina, Formica, Goodwillie etc. were bought for a couple of million, doesn't mean that they aren't worth more. I think we got rid of a lot of deadwood, which is what most people wanted, but we got rid of it too quickly maybe. In their place we brought in some exciting young players who we've seen in action now, and most would agree that there's something about them.

So in terms of player quality we're only down PJ and JJ (who was on loan anyway). Everyone else just made up the numbers (although arguably Emerton and Kalinic did well for us at times and could continue doing so).

So in terms of investment I'm not as concerned anymore because we have bought some players that I like the look of. I don't know what our debt level is currently, but I was under the impression that a lot of it has been paid off and it's currently manageable (but someone can correct me if I'm wrong). My concerns therefore only lie with the current manager and our ability to get results whether through tactical superiority or sheer luck.

It's my opinion that replacing an experienced, successful, intelligent manager with a novice was an extremely bad move and is simply illogical as far as footballing reasons are concerned.

It's my opinion that replacing the Trust with new, unknown owners was inevitable no matter what anyone thought. I believe it was in fact required for us to have a chance to progress as a club. It's logical to expect a company making an investment to do everything in their power to make the investment successful, especially where that investment is directly tied in with their public image, which they're seeking to improve and extend. This was surely more desirable to owners who no longer had an interest in investing.

[waggy]

To summarise Allardyces tenure... We all know the football on offer was pragmatic rather than inspiring BUT he habitually finished midtable / top half (with obvious increased revenue) even though his budget was in the bottom 3. In anybody's book that is some performance.

However it's been clear for some time that Allardyce was sacked not cos of the impossible expectations of MarkBRFC71, Topman, dgs, Abbey, Tris, waggy et al, not cos of bruised sentimentalities and the need for revenge of ther goons who initially backed Ince's appointment and were embittered when proved totally wrong, not cos of the entertainment value of the football, not cos we were in danger of relegation, not cos of off-field scandals, not cos of not cos of not cos of anything......... Truth is that Allardyce was sacked simply to facilitate a massive financial swindle of both our club and it's owners! (by persons and organisations unnamed )! He (and Williams) were simply obstacles in the way of that plan who needed to be removed.

Anybody who can find reason to continually support and defend those events is either foolish or malicious and can be no supporter of BRFC.

jesus gordon you would think lardarse was the 2nd coming,every time you blame me for his sacking and not the slumdogs,i will remind you off who was against the appointment of mark hughes,a far better manager than your mate

[jim mk2]

There's bigger issues at the club at the present time than arguing over the record of a long-gone ex-manager.

It was you who raised the issue of Sam in the first page of this thread ,,,,,,,,, no one else,

You would look less silly if you would accept you have been wrong all along and just let it go.

Love and best wishes from sweltering Tunisia

XX

[yoda]

It was you who raised the issue of Sam in the first page of this thread ,,,,,,,,, no one else,

You would look less silly if you would accept you have been wrong all along and just let it go.

Love and best wishes from sweltering Tunisia

XX

Typical champagne socialist, on holiday when there is a crisis

[MarkBRFC71]

It was you who raised the issue of Sam in the first page of this thread ,,,,,,,,, no one else,

You would look less silly if you would accept you have been wrong all along and just let it go.

Love and best wishes from sweltering Tunisia

XX

Stalking me from afar Jim? I'm flattered. I've been trying to let it go but when people accuse me of lying and in the same post leave me an open goal to prove them wrong, I just have to retort.

Oh, and I'm only wrong IN YOUR OPINION. Which, given your comments about 'if we had 11 Pedersens we'd be in the top 6', are a bit short on credibility.

Anyway, sincerely, have a great holiday. Hopefully we'll have signed some decent players and got a proper manager in by the time you get back, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[J*B]

Somebody create a "Premier League top 10 assault 11-12" thread please, I'm sick of the negativity. We now know where we stand, Venky's aern't going, Kean isnt going, we know our squad, we know its good enough to stay up. Positivity is key, I'm looking forward to the next few games, new players have a little time now to settle in.

[roverandout]

ok jb, keep taking those happy pills.

[Mattyblue]

Somebody create a "Premier League top 10 assault 11-12" thread please, I'm sick of the negativity. We now know where we stand, Venky's aern't going, Kean isnt going, we know our squad, we know its good enough to stay up. Positivity is key, I'm looking forward to the next few games, new players have a little time now to settle in.

With a real manager I'd be with you all the way, alas Venky's bizarre devotion to Kean will ruin a great chance for the club to achieve someething.

Big shame.

[ABBEY]

Gord how the hell you can blame a few on here is ludicrous! I never wanted ince ! We've been kippered by the lunes from Pune and agent scumbag! Not by us wanting zzzam out!If as you put it wags n us got him sacked then why is kean still here

[Ninjathunder]

Somebody create a "Premier League top 10 assault 11-12" thread please, I'm sick of the negativity. We now know where we stand, Venky's aern't going, Kean isnt going, we know our squad, we know its good enough to stay up. Positivity is key, I'm looking forward to the next few games, new players have a little time now to settle in.

Are you Steve Kean in disguise?

[J*B]

Are you Steve Kean in disguise?

No! I'm just taking some positives out of this, and moving forward! So far its clear we've been the better team, and its clear we have a high squad morale!! We've spent a lot of time in the opposition box and i expect Yak will make sure we convert the opportunities which arise in these situations!

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

Norman Hubbard of Soccernet has just published this little piece on Steve Kean's tenure and the issue of relegation:

Blackburn Risk Relegation With Steve Kean At Helm

[Sandiway Blue]

Norman Hubbard of Soccernet has just published this little piece on Steve Kean's tenure and the issue of relegation:

Blackburn Risk Relegation With Steve Kean At Helm

Frightening!.....

[roverandout]

jb, the better team than what? wolves? no we werent, we deserved to lose that, villa? again we were outplayed most of the game and everton, yes we were the better team for most of the match but we didnt take our chances and they did, what makes you think yakabu will convert these chances you talk about? i really think your steve kean's P.R man.

[John]

The word positive is getting used much more on this mb!

Need a point at least versus Fulham then hopefully we can build on things from there. The longer we stay winless though, the harder it will be to turn things around, so absolutely need a win in our next 3 games at the very minimum. Have some tough fixtures though.

Personally think, unless things have changed behind the scenes, Venkys will give Kean as long as possible (could even be unsackable)- we have to hope he can up his game as a manger otherwise we are screwed.

[BuckyRover]

The word positive is getting used much more on this mb!

Need a point at least versus Fulham then hopefully we can build on things from there. The longer we stay winless though, the harder it will be to turn things around, so absolutely need a win in our next 3 games at the very minimum. Have some tough fixtures though.

Personally think, unless things have changed behind the scenes, Venkys will give Kean as long as possible (could even be unsackable)- we have to hope he can up his game as a manger otherwise we are screwed.

Call me naive but when it becomes a decision about keeping Kean or survival, they will take survival.

Their investment is worthless in the championship.