[Archived] Our Debt

[longsiders1882]

-The accounts show that the rumours spread earlier in the year about finances have been rubbish, yet people continue to make a big fuss over the amounts. The truth of the accounts is that our operating loss has stayed fairly stagnant compared to previous years and our actual loss was on player transfers. People spread misinformation that we were in debts of 40 or 60 million dollars, maybe even 100 million! We can see that it's just not true. I was confident in stating that our loss figures would be 20 million for the 2010/2011 season and I am confident in stating that our loss figures will be considerably less and not very significant for the 2011/2012 season (dependent on our transfer dealings in January).

-People have said that the Rao family have not spent money on the club, yet they paid the 43 million dollars to own it, they put in 10 million dollars as the accounts show and they are spending money on new infrastructure at the club, and on building the Rovers brand in India. As the accounts show, they're also not making money off selling players (or "asset stripping") as many had accused them of doing in the Summer.

Miker, you repeat the error that I thought was dead and buried----------Venkys did not pay 43M for the club, they paid 22M and took over the existing debt of 21M. For goodness sake, that's why Barclays met with the Board,because despite contactual obligations to pay off debt at agreed intervals, Venkys did not pay off one cent. Their promises to the Bank are as good as their promises to the fans.

I won't go through the points you've made one by one since others have, but I will say they amount to nothing substantial. Whatever fears people had when Venkys took over have been realised many times over! Never in my wildest dreams did I think things could turn out so badly.

I think you're a contrarian ie you're arguing for the sake of it. How could things be worse? We'll soon know.

As ever, here in peace. As an interested observer my understanding was not only did they actually only pay the 22 million above but haven't they subsequently secured this sum as a mortgage against the club? Sure I read that somewhere - in which case they haven't in fact used any of their own money to buy the club.

I have no idea on motives, reasons, truth, lies or videotape BUT what is clear to the whole football world is your club is in trouble. It matters not whether somebody intended to create the situation they have or not, it should be enough that it exists and action to rectify it needed to be taken months ago - leaving it until the end of January will most likely condemn you to relegation, a player fire sale and a dog fight in the championship to get back up within 2 seasons.

On a final point. The biggest single mystery to me is what happened with English footballs safest chairman. If this was my club, that one thing more than all the others would set my alarm bells ringing. He was either pushed, which makes no sense, or, perhaps even more worryingly, he jumped. If he jumped what had he seen, heard or feared?

[roverandout]

longsider, we wont be back up in 2 seasons, if we go down, we wont EVER be going back up!!!

[EWOODACE1]

venkys have done everything they wanted. their name is very well known now. they dont care what happens to rovers. theyve had their advertising. doesnt matter whether that is good or bad advertising. they are now recognised

[vintageadidas]

• We cannot remove Kean.
• Venky's are not interested at all.
• There is no money.
• We may go into administration.
• We may cease to exist.
• We will go down.
• We will not come back up.
• All our best players will leave.
• The ground will be empty.
• The town will suffer.

So - we need to hit Venky's were it hurts; their £22m investment in the club. At the moment they are in a win / win situation as they probably cannot sell the club the only way of generating funds is through player sales and relegation. This is exactly what i believe they are trying to achieve. So how can we hurt their investment so they cannot recoup any monies and leave the club £22m+ lighter?

1. We need to stay up and change the atmosphere around the ground so we MUST get behind the lads. Kean isn't going anywhere so we must forget that avenue.

2. We need to contact Barclays and vent our concerns. Surely they can force something? The banks run the world.

3. We need to ruin the Venky's brand.

4. We need to show them that we are fans of a football club and not employees and we HAVE POWER!!

[Bluemonday BRFC]

venkys have done everything they wanted. their name is very well known now. they dont care what happens to rovers. theyve had their advertising. doesnt matter whether that is good or bad advertising. they are now recognised

They haven't got everything they wanted as of yet. Ok, they may have said their reasons for buying Rovers was for the Venky's brand recogniton, but I imagine as our Club debt grows so does Venky's profits. I've always thought they had alterior motives for buying us. Yes, they may be clueless footballing people but that's never why they purchased us. We were bought as a business investment and so far they're doing a great job in draining every aspect for the benefit of the Rao Family kitty at the detriment of Blackburn Rovers Football Club.

We are screwed. And they'll continue to lie in statements untill the Baliffs are walking off the pitch with the fecking goal posts. It's took this long for people to realise what a set of cants these people are!

[Baz]

if Kean manages to sell some players then he'll get a percentage of the money raised from those sales.

Absolutely disgusting.

[den]

On a final point. The biggest single mystery to me is what happened with English footballs safest chairman. If this was my club, that one thing more than all the others would set my alarm bells ringing. He was either pushed, which makes no sense, or, perhaps even more worryingly, he jumped. If he jumped what had he seen, heard or feared?

When the Raos took over, some people might remember me saying to watch for JW's reactions. It was obvious to me and some others, that he was without doubt a man of integrity and having BRFC at heart, wouldn't go along with owners who would be bad for the club. My own guess here, is that he saw that the Raos weren't capable, or willing to work within strict financial guidelines. They wouldn't take advice on that matter. They gave JW the impression that they would do, as and when, they pleased. So, not wanting his name alongside that kind of approach, he got out.

[Devon Rover]

Absolutely disgusting.

I took Kamy's message to mean Kean would get a proportion of sales revenue to use towards signings.

[Baz]

I took Kamy's message to mean Kean would get a proportion of sales revenue to use towards signings.

aah ok - less disgusting.

Cheers.

[Miker]

miker you think players will be bought even though kamy, nicko, glen etc have said they wont, not to mention other well informed itk's so please tell me what information you have that makes you think they are liars (itk's)

I have no intention of positing myself as ITK. I will only post based on observations and analysis.

I think you're a contrarian ie you're arguing for the sake of it. How could things be worse? We'll soon know.

Except I have no intention to argue. I was asked why I am defending the Rao family, and I have stated my reasons and then clarified some of them. The rest is up to you guys to decide or interpret how you want. I'm not stupid enough to think that I can make some sort of impact or change your mindset in regards to this. My hope is that people simply think about it from a different point of view.

[roverandout]

why a different point of view when the facts are staring us right in the face!!!

[DE.]

If we sell our best players to fund average signings then what is the point? We'll only be weakening the team.

Alternatively, if we're talking about selling the deadwood then fine... but who exactly is going to buy the amazing invisible man Vince Grella or 60 minute man David Dunn? Who's going to pay Salgado £40k a week like we do?

Selling deadwood is fine in theory, but I don't know where the buyers are coming from for said deadwood. That only leaves our best players as sellable assets - Hoillet, Samba, N'Zonzi (I suppose?), Robinson, Olsson.

[ChrisyG]

aah ok - less disgusting.

Cheers.

I was shocked and disgusted there for a minute too!

[John]

Considering 3 of the leading national newspapers in the UK reported this £10 million Barclays payment deadline, are we going to receive any comment from the club now regarding it?

Payment was due by the end of December.

The LT reported that some players were concerned following this story therefore surely a statement with a bit more clarity within it is now required.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

You baffle me Miker,its like you are trying to pleasantly and almost purversely justifty why the club is currently up to its eye balls in the brown stuff...this whole sorry situation is down to the Rao's and their total inability to run this club professionally like it should be.

As for your comment about a campaign to remove them your dead right,it started after it was clear they hadn't a clue what they were doing at Rovers on or off the field of play.

[Mercer]

Been talking to someone who works in insolvency. She confirmed the prospects are frightening, even the end of our club couldn't be discounted, for our club, on two bases. Firstly, almost certainly, Venky's will no doubt want to recover every penny of theirs used in purchase etc and secondly, the boat with potential buyer(s) sailed a few weeks ago - it's virtually certain that no one would buy us now in our league position etc at a price to fulfil the first condition.

Options thereafter strictly limited and I think you can work out the rest.

[aletheia]

Miker

A very thoughtful and interesting post, particularly on the control of information (you’re not Agnew in disguise?). In fact, this is a major gripe of the fans, that they have no voice in the control of information and thus use one of the few weapons available to them in protest. Whose fault is it that there is a vacuum in both leadership and contact? Hardly surprising that wild ideas flourish. As Paul says, you are also just another pundit claiming to have knowledge which you cannot divulge and sets you counter to the anxiety that fills these boards. As to the scurrilous campaign to oust Venkys prior to bid approaches which you dislike so much, well most feel it is a pity such “misinformation “ (if it is) didn’t work –we may be in a much better place now if it had. If the Venkys haven’t a planned strategy for asset stripping, which I agree seems to be far too extreme and controlled then what do we have here? Naive incompetents who belie the business acumen you ascribe to them. You try to defend them with the argument that other directors know nothing about football too –of course, but they have a whole swathe of competent management that knows what they are doing. Ours was eliminated for who knows what.

You intention seems to be to shift the blame from the Raos to those who have orchestrated a campaign to undermine them which in turn has influenced the gullible sheep who are Rovers fans thus making Ewood poisonous. You feel it is this which will destroy the club. We are now in the realms of conspiracy and information/misinformation that you despise. Do you really believe that if we all now calmly pull together everything will be OK?

Ultimately, your sophistry as an apologist for the Raos won’t wash and is somewhat patrician and patronising. You rightly point out that the club is imploding but expect cool heads? Are “average people” not allowed to take action? You rightly exhort fans to treat the owners as human beings but does that work both ways? When have the Raos shown any humanity recently? Accept mistakes publically? Is confiscating protest banners treating fans with humanity? Even Ashley at Newcastle wouldn’t stoop so low. Actions have to be taken to cool things down, not empty rhetoric, spin and publicity gestures which treat fans as servile imbeciles. I fail to see how your call for fans to calm down and get some perspective advances the situation in any way.

Whatever their intentions, the fact remains that in the space of a year under Venkys, BRFC have become a laughing stock; from being a well-run mid-table club punching way above its weight in terms of finance and support, it has become a candidate for administration, an organisation with no serious management structure, controlled by warring siblings who answer to nobody and circled by all kinds of spurious vested interests. In short, the fans feel utterly beleaguered, isolated and powerless: like a bad dream, we hear one revelation after another, like a car crash in slow motion. If it were a script, it would be black comedy; just when you thought things could not get worse or another stupid decision couldn’t be made, it happens. Are we supposed to just smile, clap and carry on watching our club die?

[John]

Miker - I think your anger at some of the information/misinformation from those with inside knowledge has clouded your judgement somewhat.

We simply cannot trust the Rao family and the fact we are rooted to the bottom of the table (adrift from other clubs) is ultimately their fault - not because of any discussion which has taken place on this messageboard.

[den]

Very well written and good, argumentative post aletheia.

[roverandout]

if our club does fold, i will personally fly over to pune and burn their ###### mansion down

[glen9mullan]

Talk of club folding at this stage are a bit premature,

We have mortgages against our debts, but out assets far outweigh the debt, what is in danger is our future credit line, So things are bad, but not at the point of administration.

Wages to be paid in the future are exactly that, in the future, they have not been earnt yet.

We have more Sky money due for this season, whilst we have payments also due for transfer like Jones etc, although we also have money to pay out for players we have bought on the drip I.E Dann,

What is under threat is the clubs credit, and if we lose that, we need to find someone who will give us credit, after of course Barclays have claimed back their dough, or the family need to put cash in.

[yoda's brother]

i've got to the point where i can't be arsed reading miker's post's, its as bad as listening to kean on SSN

[Stuart]

Miker

A very thoughtful and interesting post, particularly on the control of information (you’re not Agnew in disguise?). In fact, this is a major gripe of the fans, that they have no voice in the control of information and thus use one of the few weapons available to them in protest. Whose fault is it that there is a vacuum in both leadership and contact? Hardly surprising that wild ideas flourish. As Paul says, you are also just another pundit claiming to have knowledge which you cannot divulge and sets you counter to the anxiety that fills these boards. As to the scurrilous campaign to oust Venkys prior to bid approaches which you dislike so much, well most feel it is a pity such “misinformation “ (if it is) didn’t work –we may be in a much better place now if it had. If the Venkys haven’t a planned strategy for asset stripping, which I agree seems to be far too extreme and controlled then what do we have here? Naive incompetents who belie the business acumen you ascribe to them. You try to defend them with the argument that other directors know nothing about football too –of course, but they have a whole swathe of competent management that knows what they are doing. Ours was eliminated for who knows what.

You intention seems to be to shift the blame from the Raos to those who have orchestrated a campaign to undermine them which in turn has influenced the gullible sheep who are Rovers fans thus making Ewood poisonous. You feel it is this which will destroy the club. We are now in the realms of conspiracy and information/misinformation that you despise. Do you really believe that if we all now calmly pull together everything will be OK?

Ultimately, your sophistry as an apologist for the Raos won’t wash and is somewhat patrician and patronising. You rightly point out that the club is imploding but expect cool heads? Are “average people” not allowed to take action? You rightly exhort fans to treat the owners as human beings but does that work both ways? When have the Raos shown any humanity recently? Accept mistakes publically? Is confiscating protest banners treating fans with humanity? Even Ashley at Newcastle wouldn’t stoop so low. Actions have to be taken to cool things down, not empty rhetoric, spin and publicity gestures which treat fans as servile imbeciles. I fail to see how your call for fans to calm down and get some perspective advances the situation in any way.

Whatever their intentions, the fact remains that in the space of a year under Venkys, BRFC have become a laughing stock; from being a well-run mid-table club punching way above its weight in terms of finance and support, it has become a candidate for administration, an organisation with no serious management structure, controlled by warring siblings who answer to nobody and circled by all kinds of spurious vested interests. In short, the fans feel utterly beleaguered, isolated and powerless: like a bad dream, we hear one revelation after another, like a car crash in slow motion. If it were a script, it would be black comedy; just when you thought things could not get worse or another stupid decision couldn’t be made, it happens. Are we supposed to just smile, clap and carry on watching our club die?

A brilliant counter. Another post deserving of much credit from the erstwhile "+ button".

[Wiggy]

if our club does fold, i will personally fly over to pune and burn their ###### mansion down

Save your money and go to,

98 Cockfosters Road

Barnet

Hertfordshire

EN4 0DP

[beerwins]

Out of everything I have read one thing still does'nt add up....... If the Qatar bid was real why did'nt they sell? Do they really believe they can run Rovers in the way they are doing and make profit?

Surely you would sell something if you could'nt invest in it and make it work, you would take the first offer that hit the table and cut your losses or would you just wait until you sold all the players, took parachute payments and let the club rot in it's own debt that Venky's created in buying crap players, paying off all the people that had kept the club up for so long and paying over inflated Agents fees for said crappy players and even worse advice.

They could'nt face the criticism aimed at them at the Wigan match from people who's lives are affected by this club, they ran away back to India but not before lying to the fans saying they were going to sort it out and we would be happy.

If you looked up Cowardice in the dictionary it should have Blackburn Rovers owners as the first entry....... truly awful people.