[Archived] Our Debt

[Mike Graham]

I was told last night that Nigel Haworth (Northcote Manor, and Rovers catering) has just been out to Poona to "have a go" at the Venkys!!!

Has any one else picked this up?

[Mattyblue]

But they feed and vaccinate thousands of people (or is it chickens?) every week.

[Athlete]

They have good intentions, they have been successful with their businesses and they are good people. I know enough to trust them to do the right thing, but I don't know enough to know what their next move will be. What is obvious is they are struggling, badly.

totally disagree with you Miker

good intentions ???? are you taking the P*** what about all the broken promises, etc since they took over ? what are there intentions ??? what have they been since day one ?

The right thing would be to plough money in , sack Kean , keep us up but bettter still sell the club as a going Premiership concern ASAP

good people dont always make successfull football club owners

BTW : are you invited to the opening of the Rovers academy in India surely its only 5 monyths off its grand opening ? or was that another Venkys lie pie in the sky idea ?

[Paul]

Another point I would raise Miker, and I'm not trying to have a go at you, is this. Our tiny little business uses one simple tool to gauge our financial position on a daily basis, the Quick Ratio. I've no idea how widely known this is but our Sage accounts software simply looks at debtors, creditors, bank balance, VAT, NI and PAYE. After calculating these figures if real cash shows in the current account things are OK. our accountant has never discouraged this view.

The only important figures are income less expenditure equals profit. Any other creative figures are irrelevant. Cash is king. Borrowings , overdraft etc are nothing but trouble at any level. An overdraft should be nothing other than a tool to ease cash flow when required.

If I don't pay my personal credit card my facility gets cut and the bank come knocking, just as I do with my creditors.

[Taggart]

I can`t remember the last time that I am not particulary interested in the transfer window; I have absolutely no faith nor confidence in the Rent Boys bringing in any new additions and I am getting to the point where I am not too concerned who is being sold as either way I still firmly believe we are relegation fodder.

For me, i wish Venkys would hurry up and do whatever their master plan is, and then leave the club and the fans alone to start a rebuilding process and get some stability back, and with that a sense of pride in our club again albeit in the Championship.

I am absolutely disgusted, angry and nearly reached the point of not caring anymore as it has absolutely no impact or effect on the Venkys or our manager to try and rescue the club before it implodes. One thing I am sure about, is that I will still be a Rovers supporter long after these clowns and their puppet master have left the club.

[Maps]

This glen guy needs to show some proof

[ABBEY]

This glen guy needs to show some proof

Oh

Maps of trollville

[Mercer]

Another point I would raise Miker, and I'm not trying to have a go at you, is this. Our tiny little business uses one simple tool to gauge our financial position on a daily basis, the Quick Ratio. I've no idea how widely known this is but our Sage accounts software simply looks at debtors, creditors, bank balance, VAT, NI and PAYE. After calculating these figures if real cash shows in the current account things are OK. our accountant has never discouraged this view.

The only important figures are income less expenditure equals profit. Any other creative figures are irrelevant. Cash is king. Borrowings , overdraft etc are nothing but trouble at any level. An overdraft should be nothing other than a tool to ease cash flow when required.

If I don't pay my personal credit card my facility gets cut and the bank come knocking, just as I do with my creditors.

Profit is an important figure but you do not take profit to the bank - you only take cash !!!

In my time, I have seen £millions of prior years' profit wiped out by bad debt provisions and write-offs !!!

[47er]

[quote name='Miker' timestamp='1326335468' post='1210606'

They have good intentions, they have been successful with their businesses and they are good people. I know enough to trust them to do the right thing, but I don't know enough to know what their next move will be. What is obvious is they are struggling, badly.

For some reason, you have chosen to go on a one-man crusade to rehabilitate Venkys. It won't work. They talked the talk for a while but have done nothing to deserve anyone's trust or respect in over a year.

You have no evidence to back up your statement above, no deeds to point to, its just words and we are way,way past that. Like Kean I doubt they will ever be accepted. It was the darkest day in Rovers history when they bought us and (hopefully) always will be.

[jim mk2]

There are only a few people that have met them? I am pretty sure that there have been many, many people that have met them and know them personally. As it happens I have spoken with those people, not random passers by, but people I know and trust personally. They spoke highly of the Raos and that was good enough for me. They did not speak to me about their dealings with Rovers because they don't know them on that level, but simply on a personal level.

This is why I am saying that from what I know, I have nothing personal against them, and if they made the right moves I would be quite happy to have them as owners. However, while they haven't it's irrelevant. I am therefore less worried than most, but at the same time getting a bit restless as the silence and lack of action continues.

Is that acceptable for you Jim?

Not acceptable at all. You live in Australia and admit you have never been to Blackburn or Ewood Park so you have no idea how the town and fans are suffering because of the actions of these "good people" in Pune who have made barely one "right move" since they arrived more than a year ago. Your posts supporting Venky's when they are clearly failing at every level are antagonistic and an insult to real supporters.

[Kendalrover]

I am pretty sure that there have been many, many people that have met them and know them personally. As it happens I have spoken with those people, not random passers by, but people I know and trust personally. They spoke highly of the Raos and that was good enough for me.

Miker you live in Australia? You admit you have never been to Ewood Park or Blackburn.

The distance from Perth in Australia (the nearest Australian city) to Pune is about the same as Blackburn. Yet you say you personally know and trust people who personally know the Raos.

A bit of a coincidence don't you think?

[Mike Graham]

This glen guy needs to show some proof

Pardon me! What does this mean son?

[yoda]

I was told last night that Nigel Haworth (Northcote Manor, and Rovers catering) has just been out to Poona to "have a go" at the Venkys!!!

Has any one else picked this up?

I am surprised he can afford the ticket at the moment!

[Kendalrover]

I assume that, if not relegated, they will eventually try and decrease the loss through increasing commercial income in some way ie. developing fanbase and presence in Asia. This will mean they won't have to plug the gap with their own funds and either let the club remain a self sufficient trading club or use their funds for further boosting the club.

What makes you think that any money they make in India will go to the club?

[MarkBRFC]

Saw the Darlington situation on SSN this morning, very sad.

Couldn't help thinking that could be us in 1-2 years time.

[Jimmy612]

Pardon me! What does this mean son?

It means he's a trawler, ignore him

[Paul]

Profit is an important figure but you do not take profit to the bank - you only take cash !!!

absolutely and what I was trying to say. The money in the bank determines everything.

[Plastic Head]

Where have I said that? I said what I PERSONALLY know of THEM. I obviously don't sit in the board room with them or discuss matters with them at the club over a cup of tea.

All I personally know of the Venkys is:

They have not kept promises made at the time of the takeover.

They sacked a reliable manager and appointed a no-hope novice (then gave him more money when he was failing)

They rid the club of all its excellent administrators and have not replaced them.

They have piled debt on the club and not invested one penny.

They have lied to the press and to fans on many occasions.

They have been to 2 or 3 home games in 14 months.

They have wrecklessly allowed agents to rip off the club in terms of inflated payments and signing of poor players.

They have p!ssed off all our sponsors and couldn't be bothered to find a kit sponsor.

They have turned fans against them and against each other and lost thousands of Ewood attendees already.

I think you would find that even if you did sit on the board you would learn nothing and if you had tea with them you would get head nodding, hand wringing and more lies.

At the end of the day if it barks and craps on the pavement it is likely to be a dog.

[jannerman]

The Vankys have (or are very close to having) failed - no evidence needs to be provided - it's as clear as the nose on your face!

Not only have they have been badly advised and naieve, it shows no signs of letting up, they obviously still believe their own hype.

Even if they were just taking a passing interest they could have seen what difference a new manager would make - Sunderland is an example of this, and soon perhaps QPR, so that very basic of ideas/decisions they could make for themselves.

Even if Mrs D refused to put company funds into Rovers some of this personal wealth we've been hearing about could make an appearance couldn't it? Other clubs have "rich benefactors" don't they?

Just think for a moment? Could we have worse owners?

If the club goes into administration, once all of the financial mess is sorted out it will be a prospect for someone, it's just a question of how much they can afford to fund - and even with a points deduction in the Championship - with a decent manager we could climb out of it - might take a few years to come back to the Premiership, but we just have to hope we get someone who is decent, honest and not easily fooled...

[philipl]

Saw the Darlington situation on SSN this morning, very sad.

Couldn't help thinking that could be us in 1-2 years time.

Looks all too horrifically possible.

The detereoration in the critical numbers for Rovers are terrifying.

The current ratio of current assets to current liabilities has halved in one year from 0.36 to 0.17.

The current ratio is mainly used to give an idea of the company's ability to pay back its short-term liabilities (debt and payables) with its short-term assets (cash, inventory, receivables). The higher the current ratio, the more capable the company is of paying its obligations. A ratio under 1 suggests that the company would be unable to pay off its obligations if they came due at that point. While this shows the company is not in good financial health, it does not necessarily mean that it will go bankrupt - as there are many ways to access financing - but it is definitely not a good sign. The current ratio can give a sense of the efficiency of a company's operating cycle or its ability to turn its product into cash.

The other utter horror story is the overdraft looked at in relation to owner's capital and bank movements.

Opening overdraft at 30 June 2010 £14m

Actions required by the Trust at the time of sale:

Injection of new share capital £10m

New shareholder's loan £5m

Pay off the overdraft £14m

Total positive cash effect £29m

Excluding player trading, we only lost £4.2m. Adding in the hugely suspect player trading that figure grows to £18m loss.

So being a simple soul, I'd expect the Rovers' year end cash balance to be around £9m POSITIVE.

Instead we have an overdraft of £21m

I simply do not understand where the £30m difference in cash has disappeared to. These accounts do not make any sense to me especially as the majority of the player trading loss this year is on the face of it made up of non-cast amortisation provisions.

[Ralfinho]

I am surprised he can afford the ticket at the moment!

I can find out about this as I am friends with his son Kirk

[OJRovers]

Phil, I don't think they put £10m in AND paid off the £14m overdraft.

Also the shareholders loan was just novated over from the Trust so no cash in from that.

Plus the £18m loss needs stripping back to exclude amortisation and other non cash costs.

What is a bit confusing are these amortisation charges, did players we sold really have such high Net Book Value? Or could they be hiding some large 'fees' in than figure (unable to capitalise against individual players)

[den]

edit.

[Mike Graham]

edit.

The most sensible post you have made for months Den! <_<

[krypton1980]

I was told last night that Nigel Haworth (Northcote Manor, and Rovers catering) has just been out to Poona to "have a go" at the Venkys!!!

Has any one else picked this up?

I can back Preston Blue up on this info, it came from a very reliable source who has lots of dealings with Rovers, and has done for many years.