[Archived] Fulham Preview

[den]

Unless I've missed it, there is nothing that says the reason for taking him off was anything other than back problems. It says that the back problem was part of the decision to not make him captain for yesterday as well as all the talk about his future. If that's what you read as a reason for the substitution?

Ah, yes you're right. I hadn't read that through properly.

Samba being stripped of the captaincy though, is still a worry. That is something that needs sorting out. It always worries me when players have their captaincy taken away. Leaving aside the "who's right, or who's wrong" debate, stripping the captaincy brings things again into the public eye, when it needs to be done in private. It's not good.

[Mercer]

No it's because we have too many violinists and not enough hod carriers. Rochina, Formica, Dunn and Hoilett are all good players but none of em have a tackle in them and should never all play in the same team, and certainly not away from home. Basic stuff really.

Absolutely.

This is what some of us having been banging on about for some time, particularly when potential and actual signings have been discussed.

If you don't get the balance right then you are in big trouble.

[thenodrog]

I know what it would give us, you cannot however see the issue with extrapolating a seasons results after 4 games? You honestly think we will end up with 10 points our arsenal and spurs 38 points?

Those are the facts that I used. All you are using is opinion based speculation and conjecture. I realise it's early days and a couple of wins will change the prediction massively but have you seen our upcoming home fixtures?

Bucky, I was with a Rovers staff member last week and she confirmed what another staff member told me 2 months ago that Kean has them in for training 1 (yes 1 !!!) hour per day. If the players turn up late they are still allowed in without reprimand, BFS would have closed the gates and fined them.

Kean Out

even more so would mark Hughes.

[Muddboy]

I'd class yesterday's result as a positive step forward.

However, things could have been even better if our forwards hadn't been so selfish with the ball.

Rochina and Goodwillie both created decent opportunities but failed to release the ball to team-mates who were in a better position and could have scored.

It seems both of them are so desperate to get their names on the score sheets that they're not doing the sensible thing and releasing when they need to.

Kean needs to sort it out because yesterday it was the difference between us scoring one and three.

[Hughesy]

2 things I didnt understand yesterday - Why didnt Vukcevic & Yakubu get a chance (FAR more experienced players)

And why is the Fitness so poor......SORT IT OUT!!!

Does anyone have access to Opta stats? We could compare the running etc of the players to last season.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

The only real consolation is that we played better at Fulham last season and lost.

Personally Id have played Olsson down the left wing to give Givet protection at left back. Very surprised Olsson didn't start. Disappointed that neither Yakubu or Vukcevic couldn't get on. Both would have brought more to the table then Lowe. Formica didn't get the ball enough and we didn't seem to have any link between the attack and defence after Dunn went off. We either had defenders or attackers and no one joining the two.

We needed 4 points from Fulham and Arsenal. If Kean doesn't get 3 on Saturday then I dont expect him to manage another Rovers game.

[Veevs]

Fitness is a major concern although to be fair it is a bit puzzling as it only really seemed a big issue today - past three games we have looked alright on that front?

Also we do look light in midfield. Good attacking creative players but whose doing the donkey work and keeping the shape? We really really need a Jermaine Jones type. It would make all the difference in work rate and leadership. We just don't have this.

I was slated a fair bit for saying that experience further up the field was essential.. but we really do need it at the moment the organisation beyond the back four was utterly abysmal.

As for fitness we have slowed down in the second half in pretty much every match, Everton we had niggling injuries and Dunn looked fitter when he arrived for pre-season (so nothing to do with Kean) and has gradually got worse since..

1 hour training sessions.. how the hell do you drill players and get them organised in that time, never mind how the hell do you work on players fitness.. grrrrr makes me pretty soddin angry after the routines put in place by the likes of Hughes and BFS get scrapped for the Ince and Keans butt kissing slack training sessions that are proven to fail.

Don't think it's fair to say Formica was showboating out there he tried to get a few decent passes in but without organisation whats the point as no one will be there to do anything with it... Rochina though had 3-4 instances with the ball when he should of released the pass in dangerous situations with plenty of support, and when he did pass it tended to go walkabouts (12 out of 26 went to the opposition or out compared to Salgados 5 unsuccessful in 41). Scary thing is Simon is supposed to be another selfish player who likes showboating... so we could end up with 3 on the pitch at once, IMO having one of those types playing in any match is enough for me.

Phillip don't think it is fair to have a go at the fullbacks there, every game this season they have been utterly exposed due to a lack of support from midfield, Dunn and Nzonzi might of seemed to be playing well but they played pretty narrow (Kean tactics) and the wingers (if you can call them that) didn't track back (and themselves actually cut inside an awful lot) leaving ample space for opposition strikers/Fullbacks/midfielders to use the space down the left and right.

Everyone loves stats so here is one to scare the children with.. average shots on goal in the Villa/Wolves/Fulham games.. 2.3 shots (including goals) on target per game and one goal per game.

To those who hate the tactics of BFS did you notice the tactics in the second half.. how many aimless long balls did we play (pretty much every pass from Robinson was a punt up field with no build up, so that's what he has been ordered to do)??

[Miker]

Bucky, I was with a Rovers staff member last week and she confirmed what another staff member told me 2 months ago that Kean has them in for training 1 (yes 1 !!!) hour per day. If the players turn up late they are still allowed in without reprimand, BFS would have closed the gates and fined them.

This is absolutely shocking if true. Not only is he ruining the squad now but he'll instill a lazy, undisciplined mentality in the players so that other managers will find it difficult to work with.

I feel like he's singlehandedly destroying this club and team. His presence at the club is almost too painful to bear.

[hollowsr]

No it's because we have too many violinists and not enough hod carriers. Rochina, Formica, Dunn and Hoilett are all good players but none of em have a tackle in them and should never all play in the same team, and certainly not away from home. Basic stuff really.

Player who made most tackles yesterday from either team..........Rochina

Have to agree with most on here, I have been one willing to give Kean a bit more time but second half yesterday was embarrassing. At least under Sam when we hoofed it we had a plan, 2nd half we just hoofed it for the sake of it and to no one at all.

I really think we need to find someone who can get the players motivated and playing as a team. I think we have a half decent squad now but no one seems to know what to do.

1st Half I thought we looked pretty good at times just once again with little end product.

I still think Kean may be a good coach but I think after his spell now it's best to get rid completely, players would find it hard to listen to him.

Think we need new manager in with new backroom staff to get rid of Jensen especially. Other guys there have been around for a while now, Brunskill and Howard though looking at website right now doesn't look good with backroom staff! Well coaches, we appear to have very few

[den]

Good post Veevs. I agree with all of that.

Before KO, I said that there wasn't a tackle in that midfield - and there wasn't. A lot of our fans were impressed with the team selection, based on it's attacking abilities. Football away from home can't be played like that - unless you're arsenal or Man Utd.

If I had to sum up in one word how I see the teams that Ince, Kidd and Kean put out, it would be "lightweight". They all seemed to think that we could take on the rest of the Premier League and pass them off the park. None of these guys have put out a side with real "balls".

[DE.]

The only real consolation is that we played better at Fulham last season and lost.

I keep reading this and to me it doesn't really matter... if we played like we did today last season at Fulham they would have comfortably beaten us. Alternatively, if we had played like we did last season in yesterday's match we would likely have won comfortably.

It really doesn't matter what we did last season - the focus has to be on this season and our performances in the first four matches simply have not been good enough.

[thenodrog]

Personally Id have played Olsson down the left wing to give Givet protection at left back. Very surprised Olsson didn't start.

Exactly and the main topic of our 1st half and HT conversation in the pub. Absolutely obvious (to a blind man etc) that Duff would present most of Fulhams attacking threat.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

To be honest I don't have a big problem with the team he put out. Rochina, Hoilett and Formica supporting Goodwillie seemed to work pretty well in the first half. Dunn was playing a bit out of position but I assume the reasoning behind that was his superior range and quality of passing in comparison to N'Zonzi would give us a good base for starting attacks. Givet, Dann and Salgado were poor 1st half and Samba was carrying a knock, so we looked a lot more vulnerable than we should have defensively. In terms of going forward and largely controlling posession though I think the midfield and attack worked well in the 1st half.

The problem for me was our apparent lack of fitness and the substitutions made. Rochina, Formica and Goodwillie disappeared second half and in an ideal world they'd have been replaced by Vukcevic, Yakubu and Roberts. Kean's hand was forced with 2 of the substitutions being down to injuries and I think they were the right replacements (although Petrovic looked way off the pace). However god only knows why he brought Lowe on for Rochina when we had a proven PL goalscorer and a £3m new signing on the bench. Its baffling decisions like that which can be infuriating about Kean.

[roversmum]

Went to match yesterday. Still recovering from late return.

However. Good point in the circumstances. Would have taken it before the match and take it now. We do not have much of a record against London teams.

Have since watched the match on tv.

Wondering why Goodwillie was not substituted. He looked dodgy from the latter end of the first half. So in effect the rest of the match was played with nine men.

The Fulham team had a lot of premier league experience, Rovers had several inexperienced players. In the second half, we looked like rabbits in headlights, no-one sure of what he was expected to do and how to do it. Givet must get a mention here, awesome second half, and some cracking saves from Robbo.

Final foul on Hoilett = keeper off in my view. The look on his face as he waited for the free kick to come in told the story. He knew full well he had got out of jail. Hope Junior is okay and recovering*.

Fitness questionable. Shouldn't be succumbing to spurious injuries at this time of the season. Does not bode well.

Edit: Just spoke to Mr Roversmum about the incident - he is adamant that Junior was punched - if you look at the re-run Schwarzer's right arm comes round but you are unable to see where it lands.

Picture from the Official Site does not tell the full story.

Nightmare getting out of London. It was a long trip home.

[47er]

The only real consolation is that we played better at Fulham last season and lost.

Personally Id have played Olsson down the left wing to give Givet protection at left back. Very surprised Olsson didn't start. Disappointed that neither Yakubu or Vukcevic couldn't get on. Both would have brought more to the table then Lowe. Formica didn't get the ball enough and we didn't seem to have any link between the attack and defence after Dunn went off. We either had defenders or attackers and no one joining the two.

We needed 4 points from Fulham and Arsenal. If Kean doesn't get 3 on Saturday then I dont expect him to manage another Rovers game.

As ever the selections were bewildering. But then again, i haven't been defending him.

[CAPT KAYOS]

First things first - given our circumstances a point away from home has to be a good thing even if we where poor and something we should be relieved about.

However, on the evidence of yesterday, both teams are in for a turbulent season and more than likely to be looking over their shoulders in a relegation scrap.

As per many the fitness is very concerning and coupled with the lack of organisation and drive (urgency/interest) - bar little bits - the football is all very flat.

Personally I thought Dunn was our best player upto his injury, and the only one who showed any nous and direction even though Rochina and Hoilett tried in their own way, we can't have the best from Hoilett going forward if people are expecting him to be tracking back all the time imo - that's what the extra midfield man should be doing isn't it?

Still don't agree with the formation of only one attacker and the Goodwillie (who I feel could actually do something for us - but not on his own) was a forlorn and useless figure as well as being injured and should have been substituted early in the game.

Formica - sorry who is he again? - did nothing and carried all match

Nzonzi - flatters to deceive game passed him by and was constantly behind his man or left ball watching and letting men (and the game) pass him.

Salgado - has become too reckless

Givet - as we already know, far better at CB but unfortunately our best (only) LB

Samba - pre injury - certainly didn't look himself

Petrovic - in a way feel sorry for him as appears like he doesn't know what his role is supposed to be (not surprising though in this set up and the joke of a manager) - not quite sure if some where like me and thought it was Dann at times, but made some timely interceptions towards the end of the game including a clearance header - needs to up his game but unlike others think he will start to shine once he gets upto speed.

As for the 'clash' think the ref actually got it spot on, however if that was an outfield player I am quite certain he may have produced red.

Also think we where lucky in not having a penalty given against us un a couple of occasions - Dann especially, depsite a decent debut needs to learn to keep his hand to himself.

Overall, a points a point but there are alot of worries all too evident giving rise to serious concerns.

And no its not a minority - KEAN has to go!

[m1st]

Apologies if someone else has made this point; I've only just logged on for the first time since last night and haven't time to read all the posts on this thread since I last read it.

Although I listened to the Radio 5 commentary, I was texted by a friend who was watching Sky. Apparently, Roberts began warming up after about 10 mins when Goodwillie began to run awkwardly.

Now I'm no Sports Medical expert; but I know from my own disability that, if I keep walking when my "bad" leg [for want of a more PC description] is playing me up, then I'm storing up trouble for myself. So, why on earth wasn't Goodwillie substituted at least at half-time?

[CAPT KAYOS]

Although I listened to the Radio 5 commentary, I was texted by a friend who was watching Sky. Apparently, Roberts began warming up after about 10 mins when Goodwillie began to run awkwardly.

This is indeed correct - could be though he signalled that he was ok even though it was quite obvious he wasn't.

More fuel for the fire?

[chris]

Goodwillie had cramp in his hamstrings, he apparently was not injured and hence played the full match.

[LeChuck]

Givet - as we already know, far better at CB but unfortunately our best (only) LB

Sorry but that's just not true. Olsson arrived at the club as a left back and was converted to midfield under Allardyce. Still, left back is his natural position.

I don't dispute that, to date, his best performances have come on the left wing, but that doesn't alter the fact that he is a left back. He's a better left back than Givet as well, he always looks out of his depth against a tricky winger like Duff.

[forumquizmaster]

This was my view of individual performances yesterday. 1. Paul Robinson 7/10. Solid

2. Michel Salgado. Put in a hell of a shift. Gets exposed by lack of support from midfield. If everyone else put in the effort this fella does we’d be a much better team. 6/10

3. Gael Givet. I would have given him a 5/10 for his left back performance, but a 9/10 for his sterling second half display at centre half. On average 7/10.

4. Chris Samba. Didn’t seem interested. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt if he really was injured. 6/10

5. Scott Dann. His debut, and his first game for 9 months. One horrendous error aside, he showed us all what a good defender and leader he will be. Make him captain. 8/10

6. Steven N’Zonzi. Okay first half but faded badly in the second. Difficult to judge him when all around him was so poor, but he doesn’t do enough either way for me and looks lazy. 6/10

7. David Dunn. Ran the show in the first half for me and was Rovers’ best player until, inevitably, he went off injured. Maybe him and Vince Grella can play 45 minutes each? 7/10

8. Mauro Formica. Lacks pace and flatters to deceive. Very poor. 4/10

9. David Hoilett. Our most obvious threat going forward. Doesn’t track back though, and left Givet badly exposed for the goal, which knocks him a mark off in my book. Very brave header which got him injured adds it back on. 7/10

10. Ruben Rochina. An obvious talent. A wonderful goal that was worth the entrance fee alone. Needs to learn when not to dribble with the ball, e.g. on the edge of his own penalty area. He cost us a goal against Man City last season and could easily have done so again yesterday. 7/10

11. David Goodwillie. Poor. Embarrassingly so at times. Doesn’t lift his head, can’t run and can’t hold the ball up. You could argue the system doesn’t suit him but he was that bad I would even have preferred Roberts yesterday! Bring on the Yak!! 4/10

12. Martin Olssen. Unlucky to be dropped. I would have played him wide on the left from the word go. However, he did ok, and the back four had a better balance with him at left back and Givet in the middle. 6/10

13. Radosav Petrovic. He is struggling with the pace of the Premier League. Hopefully he will pick it up with a few games under his belt, but the signs aren’t good. Him and N’Zonzi next to each other doesn’t work. 4/10

14. Jason Lowe. Surprising introduction but he actually did ok and put his body on the line a couple of times. 5/10

[Fife Rover]

Past time now for Dunn to be retired to the bench. He hasn't got 90 mins in him and his inclusion from the start means that we only ever have the choice of 2 subs. Goodness knows why Lowe came on cos Formica may as well not have been on and should have been subbed at ht whilst Goodwillie is seriously unfit and appears to only have a max of 60 mins in his locker. Hoillets late injury meant we were down to 10 men and if it had happened sooner could have cost us the solitary point that we currently have.

As for Keans team selection, his reluctance to change the left back situation where Givet was as exposed as could be until we'd given away the equaliser and his baffling use of subs and tactics..... Just rubbish and as fine an example of rank bad management as one could hope for never to see again.

1 point from 4 matches and against some of the Prems weaker teams. That extrapolates out to a 10 point total for the season...just so long as the big guns have off days. I wonder if 10 points will be enough to keep us up?

There you are Theno I have corrected that for you. Otherwise I fully agree with you....a very good summation.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Sorry but that's just not true. Olsson arrived at the club as a left back and was converted to midfield under Allardyce. Still, left back is his natural position.

I don't dispute that, to date, his best performances have come on the left wing, but that doesn't alter the fact that he is a left back. He's a better left back than Givet as well, he always looks out of his depth against a tricky winger like Duff.

Go back a few seasons LeChuck and see my comments on when he wasn't even in the first team - never in a million years is Olsson a left back

A stop gap simply because he is left footed.

[A cup of beans]

Edit: Just spoke to Mr Roversmum about the incident - he is adamant that Junior was punched - if you look at the re-run Schwarzer's right arm comes round but you are unable to see where it lands.

Picture from the Official Site does not tell the full story.

Mr Roversmum was on sky... again! pre-match where kean and the team were getting off the coach!

[Fife Rover]

Probably because he watched the game and tried to understand, instead of just accepting what he was told.

Tactically, we are a mess. If you couldn't recognise that today, then there isn't a lot more to say, is there?

And that REALLY IS putting it mildly!! As far as I could see (especially 2nd half) we just didn't HAVE any tactics.