[Archived] Steve Kean Thread (Poll reset after Stoke game)

[thenodrog]

Most, if not all the rovers fans are confused with Kean being promoted to first team manager. There is however one other scenario that I haven't seen discussed.

That's the scenario where Kean was never intended to be a replacement manager. It could well be that Anderson sold the Raos a vision of a club where he would supply the players, Kean would only be needed to coach the players and the Raos would manage the club. In other words, the football manager as we know it would cease to exist.

That would help explain quite a few questions/decisions. It would explain how a coach came into the position that he is now in. It would explain exactly why Sam never stood a chance. It would explain why JW, TF and just about every other middle man weren't needed any more. It would explain why Mrs D made the comment that JW would be OK if he toed the line. It would explain that Kean was always intended to be the go-between.

So to sum up - JA provides all the players, Kean to coach them and the Raos to manage the club on a day to day basis, making all the decisions. Of course, it could also be the case that the Raos, having at last realised that the plan was failing, have rid rovers of JA's input, leaving us high and dry as we undoubtedly flounder with no plan at all.

You could see the attraction to the Raos. Slimline staffing, cutting running costs and simple ideas. If that was the plan, and it would have been a first in English football, you have to say the mistake wasn't Kean, it was the plan.

den.... The venkeys have been convinced by Dastardly that the manager is the only person that is needed to administrate the club and that everything... I repeat everything and every decision must go through him.

Strange but true.

[CrazyIvan]

den.... The venkeys have been convinced by Dastardly that the manager is the only person that is needed to administrate the club and that everything... I repeat everything and every decision must go through him.

Strange but true.

'administrate'? Since when did that become an acceptable English word? http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000172.htm

[purplegrover]

The most expensive game of football manager ever but without the ability to start again.

Sad thing is, if they sell Samba, Olsson, Hoilett, Robinson and NZonzi and walk away, it probably won't be expensive for them at all. They will have dabbled, and walked away having pretty much broken even for the experience.

Meantime, the club will be bankrupt and wiped out.

[philipl]

and..........

Kean was taking his trips to India right from the off, while JW was still in place - which suggests that he [Kean] knew what this new plan was all along.

Seems to me that JW, TF and the rest of 'em were never in the plans. Only question remaining is when [if true] did Kean know what was happening? I could guess that it was before he was promoted. Maybe well before.

All guesswork, but it certainly adds up.

There is very little evidence that does not support this theory den and an awful lot that suggests a huge amount of guilt on the part of Kean. From what I have heard, questions could be asked going back before the decision to sell to Venky's was taken and about a chain of misplaced trust which existed within Ewood with what are now looking like fatal results for the club.

In my opinion, Kean deserves every ounce of opprobrium coming his way and then one heck of a lot more besides.

Kean is currently getting off incredibly lightly so far as I am concerned and his tripled salary is a filthy offence to every right minded person who supports the Rovers. Certainly it is a signal from Mrs D that she is paying Kean to be fed to the wolves.

[PAFELL]

There is very little evidence that does not support this theory den and an awful lot that suggests a huge amount of guilt on the part of Kean. From what I have heard, questions could be asked going back before the decision to sell to Venky's was taken and about a chain of misplaced trust which existed within Ewood with what are now looking like fatal results for the club.

In my opinion, Kean deserves every ounce of opprobrium coming his way and then one heck of a lot more besides.

Kean is currently getting off incredibly lightly so far as I am concerned and his tripled salary is a filthy offence to every right minded person who supports the Rovers. Certainly it is a signal from Mrs D that she is paying Kean to be fed to the wolves.

My view, is the lies kean comes out with are fed to hum by venkys. Pity independent saying venkys looking to sell, appears to be false.

[Athlete]

There is very little evidence that does not support this theory den and an awful lot that suggests a huge amount of guilt on the part of Kean. From what I have heard, questions could be asked going back before the decision to sell to Venky's was taken and about a chain of misplaced trust which existed within Ewood with what are now looking like fatal results for the club.

In my opinion, Kean deserves every ounce of opprobrium coming his way and then one heck of a lot more besides.

Kean is currently getting off incredibly lightly so far as I am concerned and his tripled salary is a filthy offence to every right minded person who supports the Rovers. Certainly it is a signal from Mrs D that she is paying Kean to be fed to the wolves.

Philipl if theres little evidence to support Dens Theory can anyone explain the weird bit where Kean got a triple salary pay rise in November and Kean denied it for 3 weeks ???? because that certainly beggered belief but was true....

[philipl]

Philipl if theres little evidence to support Dens Theory can anyone explain the weird bit where Kean got a triple salary pay rise in November and Kean denied it for 3 weeks ???? because that certainly beggered belief but was true....

Double negative Athlete- I am saying I have not come across anything which refutes what Den is saying.

[trueblue]

Philipl if theres little evidence to support Dens Theory can anyone explain the weird bit where Kean got a triple salary pay rise in November and Kean denied it for 3 weeks ???? because that certainly beggered belief but was true....

I think you read Philipl wrongly there Athlete.. he said 'there is little evidence that does NOT support your theory Den'

Edit.. Beat me to it Philipl

[Athlete]

Yeah was little confused...so If put someone in charge of coaching but theres no actual proper management and the teams results are poor to say the least why in gods name give the coach a pay rise ? The sack would be more appropriate..

[booth]

Sorry Guys, but I just can't take it anymore, not supporting a jock in his time of need just feels wrong.

[den]

den.... The venkeys have been convinced by Dastardly that the manager is the only person that is needed to administrate the club and that everything... I repeat everything and every decision must go through him.

Strange but true.

Let me make this clearer Gord. I'm going to start by saying that I'm wary of getting the site into trouble, so this is only my opinion. It's only me thinking out loud. I know nothing.

To a man, we can't understand why Kean was appointed as manager and we can't understand why he's still here. We can't understand why JW and TF were allowed to leave and we can't understand why he's not been replaced. We can't understand why there's no-one at Ewood with a clue as to what's happening.

Well, the real story might be along these lines......

Before the takeover, the Raos were given a "business plan". It was simple, but quite radical. The first part was that Kentaro would help in providing players to the club. These players would be basically young lads who with the right coaching would become valuable assets to bring in profit at a later date. The second part would be the appointment of a top coach. Not a manager. The third part would be to move the decision making part of the club to Pune, with an administration staff at Ewood that would run the day to day tasks.

Now then - Keans involvement, or otherwise. Is it reasonable to believe that he, being a Kentaro man and Rovers employee, would know nothing about the goings on at Ewood prior to the deal being signed? If he knew nothing, then how strange that within three weeks of the takeover, he was at the helm. How strange that within weeks he was off to Pune over and above JW's head - are these the actions of a coach that knows nothing about any plan? How strange that the Raos knew so much about the abilities of the coach, so soon after the takeover? How strange that so soon after his appointment that he was awarded a longer contract? Could it be that Kean was involved in the business plan from day one? Maybe, maybe not.

JW and TF. Were never included in this business plan. There was no role for them. They would probably have been allowed to run their contracts down and then released. JW commented on how "sometimes new owners have different ways of working". Kean commented that JW took a dislike to him after he'd [Kean] been in charge for around 4 weeks. Mrs D commented that JW couldn't accept JA and Keans role at the club. Could it be that JW could see this "radical" new way that the Raos were heading and didn't like it one little bit?

So, I'm just trying to work out why, if all that the Raos intended to do was bring in a new young manager to replace Allardyce, [and they just kind of got unlucky] they are at a position where they wont replace him. Why hasn't JW been replaced and why is there no-one at Ewood that knows anything about the situation?

We're in danger of thinking that the owners have just been a little naieve, when in fact they might very well have known exactly what they were doing. We're in danger of believing that Kean was a coach who was given a golden opportunity, when in fact he might have been a part of this business plan all along.

So. Why was JW never replaced? Because it was never intended that he would be replaced. Yes they voiced an opinion that they were looking for another chairman, but they say lots of things don't they.

Why, we wonder does no-one at Ewood know what the hells happening? Because it was never intended to be anything else than an Admin staff at Ewood.

and why has Steve Kean not been replaced? Because it isn't in the plan to have anyone other than a coach running the team affairs and that Kean is still highly regarded as a coach? Could it be that the Raos aren't replacing Kean, simply because they don't see the coaching of the players as the real problem?

Maybe we should look at the current state of affairs from a different starting point. The situation the owners now see themselves in was as a result of a plan that they fully knew about and accepted.

As for LeChuck's point about continental clubs using coaches to run their clubs - well I'm sure that they still have a lot of good people in the right places. Good Chairmen, good board of directors and good scouting systems. I bet their clubs don't consist of dodgy football agents, lieing coaches and thick, gullible owners. Our problem now of course, is that we don't have the structure to support a football manager who wants full control.

Sorry for putting this in the Steve Kean thread mods. Start a new topic with it if you like.

[Mattyblue]

And that den is everything and more I and many others have been thinking for months now.

Great post.

[thenodrog]

Let me make this clearer Gord. I'm going to start by saying that I'm wary of getting the site into trouble, so this is only my opinion. It's only me thinking out loud. I know nothing.

To a man, we can't understand why Kean was appointed as manager and we can't understand why he's still here. We can't understand why JW and TF were allowed to leave and we can't understand why he's not been replaced. We can't understand why there's no-one at Ewood with a clue as to what's happening.

Well, the real story might be along these lines......

Before the takeover, the Raos were given a "business plan". It was simple, but quite radical. The first part was that Kentaro would help in providing players to the club. These players would be basically young lads who with the right coaching would become valuable assets to bring in profit at a later date. The second part would be the appointment of a top coach. Not a manager. The third part would be to move the decision making part of the club to Pune, with an administration staff at Ewood that would run the day to day tasks.

Now then - Keans involvement, or otherwise. Is it reasonable to believe that he, being a Kentaro man and Rovers employee, would know nothing about the goings on at Ewood prior to the deal being signed? If he knew nothing, then how strange that within three weeks of the takeover, he was at the helm. How strange that within weeks he was off to Pune over and above JW's head - are these the actions of a coach that knows nothing about any plan? How strange that the Raos knew so much about the abilities of the coach, so soon after the takeover? How strange that so soon after his appointment that he was awarded a longer contract? Could it be that Kean was involved in the business plan from day one? Maybe, maybe not.

JW and TF. Were never included in this business plan. There was no role for them. They would probably have been allowed to run their contracts down and then released. JW commented on how "sometimes new owners have different ways of working". Kean commented that JW took a dislike to him after he'd [Kean] been in charge for around 4 weeks. Mrs D commented that JW couldn't accept JA and Keans role at the club. Could it be that JW could see this "radical" new way that the Raos were heading and didn't like it one little bit?

So, I'm just trying to work out why, if all that the Raos intended to do was bring in a new young manager to replace Allardyce, [and they just kind of got unlucky] they are at a position where they wont replace him. Why hasn't JW been replaced and why is there no-one at Ewood that knows anything about the situation?

We're in danger of thinking that the owners have just been a little naieve, when in fact they might very well have known exactly what they were doing. We're in danger of believing that Kean was a coach who was given a golden opportunity, when in fact he might have been a part of this business plan all along.

So. Why was JW never replaced? Because it was never intended that he would be replaced. Yes they voiced an opinion that they were looking for another chairman, but they say lots of things don't they.

Why, we wonder does no-one at Ewood know what the hells happening? Because it was never intended to be anything else than an Admin staff at Ewood.

and why has Steve Kean not been replaced? Because it isn't in the plan to have anyone other than a coach running the team affairs and that Kean is still highly regarded as a coach? Could it be that the Raos aren't replacing Kean, simply because they don't see the coaching of the players as the real problem?

Maybe we should look at the current state of affairs from a different starting point. The situation the owners now see themselves in was as a result of a plan that they fully knew about and accepted.

As for LeChuck's point about continental clubs using coaches to run their clubs - well I'm sure that they still have a lot of good people in the right places. Good Chairmen, good board of directors and good scouting systems. I bet their clubs don't consist of dodgy football agents, lieing coaches and thick, gullible owners. Our problem now of course, is that we don't have the structure to support a football manager who wants full control.

Sorry for putting this in the Steve Kean thread mods. Start a new topic with it if you like.

Can't argue with much of that Den. It's why I changed my sig. No doubt there is plenty of flesh to put on those bones.

[joey_big_nose]

Before the takeover, the Raos were given a "business plan". It was simple, but quite radical. The first part was that Kentaro would help in providing players to the club. These players would be basically young lads who with the right coaching would become valuable assets to bring in profit at a later date. The second part would be the appointment of a top coach. Not a manager. The third part would be to move the decision making part of the club to Pune, with an administration staff at Ewood that would run the day to day tasks.

Now then - Keans involvement, or otherwise. Is it reasonable to believe that he, being a Kentaro man and Rovers employee, would know nothing about the goings on at Ewood prior to the deal being signed? If he knew nothing, then how strange that within three weeks of the takeover, he was at the helm. How strange that within weeks he was off to Pune over and above JW's head - are these the actions of a coach that knows nothing about any plan? How strange that the Raos knew so much about the abilities of the coach, so soon after the takeover? How strange that so soon after his appointment that he was awarded a longer contract? Could it be that Kean was involved in the business plan from day one? Maybe, maybe not.

JW and TF. Were never included in this business plan. There was no role for them. They would probably have been allowed to run their contracts down and then released. JW commented on how "sometimes new owners have different ways of working". Kean commented that JW took a dislike to him after he'd [Kean] been in charge for around 4 weeks. Mrs D commented that JW couldn't accept JA and Keans role at the club. Could it be that JW could see this "radical" new way that the Raos were heading and didn't like it one little bit?

So, I'm just trying to work out why, if all that the Raos intended to do was bring in a new young manager to replace Allardyce, [and they just kind of got unlucky] they are at a position where they wont replace him. Why hasn't JW been replaced and why is there no-one at Ewood that knows anything about the situation?

We're in danger of thinking that the owners have just been a little naieve, when in fact they might very well have known exactly what they were doing. We're in danger of believing that Kean was a coach who was given a golden opportunity, when in fact he might have been a part of this business plan all along.

So. Why was JW never replaced? Because it was never intended that he would be replaced. Yes they voiced an opinion that they were looking for another chairman, but they say lots of things don't they.

Why, we wonder does no-one at Ewood know what the hells happening? Because it was never intended to be anything else than an Admin staff at Ewood.

and why has Steve Kean not been replaced? Because it isn't in the plan to have anyone other than a coach running the team affairs and that Kean is still highly regarded as a coach? Could it be that the Raos aren't replacing Kean, simply because they don't see the coaching of the players as the real problem?

Maybe we should look at the current state of affairs from a different starting point. The situation the owners now see themselves in was as a result of a plan that they fully knew about and accepted.

As for LeChuck's point about continental clubs using coaches to run their clubs - well I'm sure that they still have a lot of good people in the right places. Good Chairmen, good board of directors and good scouting systems. I bet their clubs don't consist of dodgy football agents, lieing coaches and thick, gullible owners. Our problem now of course, is that we don't have the structure to support a football manager who wants full control.

Sorry for putting this in the Steve Kean thread mods. Start a new topic with it if you like.

Most of what you say is plausible imo, but there is a bit of a problem in that the appalling management of the club is decreasing player value. Since the start of the season, due to poor performances, I am sure purchasing clubs will value Robinson, Samba, Givet, Hoilett, Olsson as a lower price today. The only players to have acquired value will have been Yakubu (due to his phenomenal goal scoring record) and the young lads like Lowe,Henley, Hanley, Bunn. However these latter five will not have earnt enough value to be worth more than the depreciating first team players.

I can't see how Venkys would be comfortable with us getting relegated. It will cost them a vast amount of cash...

To me the situation seems quite simple and is like this:-

Kentaro go to Venkys, tell them they have a club they can buy and increase their brand value and not have to put any money into to keep running. There is also the possibility of selling the club at a profit down the line, and much is made of the fact that the assets of the club (players) are valued (at 60m) more than the club price (35m). Kentero promise to handle the management side entirely.

Venkys accept this, buy the club, let Anderson effectively run the club. After six months Venky's realise they are being totally fleeced in agents fees by SEM/Kentaro, and also the footballing and financial advice has been poor with results atrocious and the club making substantial losses. They break off relations with SEM/Kentaro in anger. Suddenly they find they are in charge of a huge loss making enterprise with no management in a highly competitive industry they know nothing about. They make the quite logical decision to limit exposure (ie. put no further money in) and look to exit ASAP. It's a boxed in situation as employing consultants to fill the knowledge gap costs money and leaves you open to abuse (a la Kentaro). Without the knowledge there is nothing you can do as there is no way to be sure if it is the correct decision or not.

The attitude could well be "we know nothing about football so better to just leave it as it is until we can get the hell out. Changing things costs money and could make things worse or no better".

Of course this interpretation doesn't work if a Qatar consortium did come in to purchase and Venkys rejected, but personally I think they probably were never serious.

[Rover_Shaun]

Whilst the scenarios are rivetting the fact remains that our manager should be sacked. The owners should then come to Blackburn and grovel on their hands and knees for another chance and we go from there

[booth]

Whilst the scenarios are rivetting the fact remains that our manager should be sacked. The owners should then come to Blackburn and grovel on their hands and knees for another chance do the honorable thing and sell the club for a pound to a wealthy backer, like Bates did at Chelsea and we go from there

Changed your post to what I'd like to see happen.

[Torgeir]

The attitude could well be "we know nothing about football so better to just leave it as it is until we can get the hell out. Changing things costs money and could make things worse or no better".

Of course this interpretation doesn't work if a Qatar consortium did come in to purchase and Venkys rejected, but personally I think they probably were never serious.

You might be right about the bid, but according to Kamy our owners are denying that the club is for sale now. If what they want is getting out, then they really should get out now while we're still a Premier League club with a (albeit slim) chance of survival. From what I understand Glen only heard unconfirmed rumours about a group of lawyers trying to sell. If indeed Venky's want to sell, then where's the sense in not making it known?

[den]

I think we can all come to a reasonable scenario of how the Raos thought they could make money JBN.

All I'm trying to show is an explanation as to why Kean is still here and why we have no Chairman or effective board.

IMO, when Kean talks continually about "what we're trying to do", this is what he's talking about, - running a club based on JA, himself and the Raos. It's not that they wanted to run the club in a conventional manner, they didn't. They haven't been unlucky, or naieve in appointing a coach instead of an experienced manager who hasn't paid off. It was a neatly worked out plan and has been executed precisely as the Raos wanted.

It's gone tits up because the three main ingredients aren't up to it. JA can't find the young, cheap talent, Kean isn't capable of gelling them together into any kind of effective unit and the Raos aren't capable of changing the plan now it's shown to be ineffective, or running the clubs finances.

[DP]

Den's summary looks plausible to me.

Now although it looks like it hasn't all gone to plan, why didn't Venkys sever ties with Kean when they did with Kentaro/SEM? Possibly because they haven't...?

[Rover_Shaun]

Changed your post to what I'd like to see happen.

I would but the semi-realist in me took over

[bob fleming]

Den's summary looks plausible to me.

Now although it looks like it hasn't all gone to plan, why didn't Venkys sever ties with Kean when they did with Kentaro/SEM? Possibly because they haven't...?

That's an outrgaeous suggestion. Just because they've fallen out with SEM Kentaro why on earth would they part company with the fella who SEM Kentaro recommended for the job? Just because of his results record or something? No, no, no, there is no link whatsover between Venkys, Kean and SEM Kentaro at Blackburn Rovers now - apart from the manager and Myles Anderson. None whatsoever.

[Lurid Coat]

Just watched The Premier League World on telly, and Leroy Rosenior gave his opinion on the top and bottom four teams in the division. Prepared myself for some ridiculous "give Kean more time and get off his back" drivel, but he actually said that Kean is "totally out of his depth" and that the fans are "understandably fuming". Good man, Leroy!

[onlyonejackwalker]

Let me make this clearer Gord. I'm going to start by saying that I'm wary of getting the site into trouble, so this is only my opinion. It's only me thinking out loud. I know nothing.

To a man, we can't understand why Kean was appointed as manager and we can't understand why he's still here. We can't understand why JW and TF were allowed to leave and we can't understand why he's not been replaced. We can't understand why there's no-one at Ewood with a clue as to what's happening.

Well, the real story might be along these lines......

Before the takeover, the Raos were given a "business plan". It was simple, but quite radical. The first part was that Kentaro would help in providing players to the club. These players would be basically young lads who with the right coaching would become valuable assets to bring in profit at a later date. The second part would be the appointment of a top coach. Not a manager. The third part would be to move the decision making part of the club to Pune, with an administration staff at Ewood that would run the day to day tasks.

Now then - Keans involvement, or otherwise. Is it reasonable to believe that he, being a Kentaro man and Rovers employee, would know nothing about the goings on at Ewood prior to the deal being signed? If he knew nothing, then how strange that within three weeks of the takeover, he was at the helm. How strange that within weeks he was off to Pune over and above JW's head - are these the actions of a coach that knows nothing about any plan? How strange that the Raos knew so much about the abilities of the coach, so soon after the takeover? How strange that so soon after his appointment that he was awarded a longer contract? Could it be that Kean was involved in the business plan from day one? Maybe, maybe not.

JW and TF. Were never included in this business plan. There was no role for them. They would probably have been allowed to run their contracts down and then released. JW commented on how "sometimes new owners have different ways of working". Kean commented that JW took a dislike to him after he'd [Kean] been in charge for around 4 weeks. Mrs D commented that JW couldn't accept JA and Keans role at the club. Could it be that JW could see this "radical" new way that the Raos were heading and didn't like it one little bit?

So, I'm just trying to work out why, if all that the Raos intended to do was bring in a new young manager to replace Allardyce, [and they just kind of got unlucky] they are at a position where they wont replace him. Why hasn't JW been replaced and why is there no-one at Ewood that knows anything about the situation?

We're in danger of thinking that the owners have just been a little naieve, when in fact they might very well have known exactly what they were doing. We're in danger of believing that Kean was a coach who was given a golden opportunity, when in fact he might have been a part of this business plan all along.

So. Why was JW never replaced? Because it was never intended that he would be replaced. Yes they voiced an opinion that they were looking for another chairman, but they say lots of things don't they.

Why, we wonder does no-one at Ewood know what the hells happening? Because it was never intended to be anything else than an Admin staff at Ewood.

and why has Steve Kean not been replaced? Because it isn't in the plan to have anyone other than a coach running the team affairs and that Kean is still highly regarded as a coach? Could it be that the Raos aren't replacing Kean, simply because they don't see the coaching of the players as the real problem?

Maybe we should look at the current state of affairs from a different starting point. The situation the owners now see themselves in was as a result of a plan that they fully knew about and accepted.

As for LeChuck's point about continental clubs using coaches to run their clubs - well I'm sure that they still have a lot of good people in the right places. Good Chairmen, good board of directors and good scouting systems. I bet their clubs don't consist of dodgy football agents, lieing coaches and thick, gullible owners. Our problem now of course, is that we don't have the structure to support a football manager who wants full control.

Sorry for putting this in the Steve Kean thread mods. Start a new topic with it if you like.

Cheers Den.

[dunc]

Just watched The Premier League World on telly, and Leroy Rosenior gave his opinion on the top and bottom four teams in the division. Prepared myself for some ridiculous "give Kean more time and get off his back" drivel, but he actually said that Kean is "totally out of his depth" and that the fans are "understandably fuming". Good man, Leroy!

Just wondering. His son was at Fulham. Was it at the same time as Kean was assistant to Chris Coleman? Maybe his opinion is based on inside knowledge of Steve Kean.

[Rover_Shaun]

Another Kean gem

Firstly, even my Grandma said to me at the time "Isn't injury time the minimum amount of time to be played?"

Steve Kean Bleated - “He played over the four minutes and then when the goal goes in he has played 14 seconds more. I thought we had to be quite strict on the rules. He said he played what he thought was the right time. We certainly think the goal went in after the time was up.”

What a total donut