[Archived] Steve Kean Thread (Poll reset after Stoke game)

[braddock]

As much as you have every right to be appalled by the results, I personally would much rather survive and watch some good football at times than be driven to no longer wanting to watch the team I support under Allardyce's tactics. Ideally we'd have a manager like Hughes back, but it isn't going to happen. If I had to choose between one or the other of Kean in 16th and Allardyce in 10th then Kean is by far the preferable choice. If we were to be relegated then my opinion would change, but I don't think we will, and I haven't thought we would since Ince. It's certainly more of a possibility now, but I'm still confident.

[patrickvalery]

Really? I've found most of his arguments fall like a house of cards once you prod them, and he moves onto the next bait.

Yeah. I like him/her. In the same way i have grown to love Mercerman. I look out for their posts. I'm not saying i agree with their view points. I'm just saying i enjoy their posts. I swear Mercerman has given up his season ticket more times than i've had hot dinners. But i know he doesn't mean it. Its passion and hope and despair and ambition all rolled into one. Bradders has waited for a wee while for a decent run of results and he/she is making hay while the sun shines. I don't mind that. He / she writes well and stands by their convictions. You have to admire that no matter what thats based on. Surely.

[Majiball]

As much as you have every right to be appalled by the results, I personally would much rather survive and watch some good football at times than be driven to no longer wanting to watch the team I support under Allardyce's tactics. Ideally we'd have a manager like Hughes back, but it isn't going to happen. If I had to choose between one or the other of Kean in 16th and Allardyce in 10th then Kean is by far the preferable choice. If we were to be relegated then my opinion would change, but I don't think we will, and I haven't thought we would since Ince. It's certainly more of a possibility now, but I'm still confident.

So you believe being entertained is more important than results?

Results come first entertainment second, that's how sport works, its about winning, nothing else.

Personally though I want both.

[Mike Graham]

So you believe being entertained is more important than results?

Results come first entertainment second, that's how sport works, its about winning, nothing else.

Personally though I want both.

Entertained by Kean, who is this lass kidding.

[Majiball]

Entertained by Kean, who is this lass kidding.

He has made me laugh more than once, that dew comment still makes me chuckle. If it were any other club I'd hail him the funniest man in football with th tripe he serves up every weekend in his interviews, but it's not.

[braddock]

I quite like you Braddock. I admire your ballsy stance over Kean. I think you put accross your arguments well and i think for a site like this to exist, people like yourself are vital. Hell, todays posts could be halved if it wasn't for you.

I can't say i hold the same unwavering support of Kean that you do. However, i have been and still am of the opinion that he could have something about him. I just feel that he needed to cut his teeth lower down the football pyramid. Learning your trade (self inflicted or otherwise) in the premier league is like learning to swim in a pool full of hungry sharks. You will likely fail. I think he has been hung out to dry by our god awful owners. A point which i am certain we do not share.

However, despite my nagging and unusual optimism, i cannot deny the fact he has failed. At the start of this season Rovers had as good a squad as we have had in a long while. Very decent young players coming through all at the same stage, some hard workers, a solid looking back four and even some scattered flair further forward. Yet we find ourselves over half way through the same season and all the promise is gone. Kean has had his fair share of misfortune regarding assistants. To lose one may be regarded as misfortune: to lose two looks like carelessness. However for all his misfortune in terms of restraints from above and staff leaving etc... he has made too many self inflicted poor decisions. Mainly on match days. This is where i would expect a coach to thrive. Often he shows his hand too soon. Makes changes when we're on top and loses momentum. A word he likes to use himself.

If i am honest, i have no reason to believe the rumours about him. Yes i think his appointment whiffed a bit. What with Jerome etc... anyone would be crazy to think otherwise. Yes i'd far sooner have Allardyce because he is top drawer. His football was morbid, but his results were essential and not unappreciated by me personally. But i don't hate Kean. He is just not good enough to do his job. He is trying to take his big chance. It's our neglectful owners who should take the blame.

Fair enough, and thanks for the courteous reply. My opinions are this:

Kean has had quite a bit to deal with, with the likes of Samba finally getting what he wanted whilst refusing to play, certain players apparently not being available to him and the massive amounts of fans directing abuse at him during games. Let's not forget the fact he didn't have a run of games with a first team defence pretty much all season, since once they made it back Samba wanted out as it was a window. For a new manager I would not say he has failed. Promising youngsters with little experience is not going to keep you up alone. You need more than that, and he's found it with a good signing up front and instilling belief in players in a hostile atmosphere. Add to which this is his first full season as a manager, I'd say he hasn't failed.

Allardyce was there for a reason. He kept us up and for that I am grateful. But as a poster on here once said, why keep taking the awful medicine when the problem has gone away. We should have replaced him with somebody ready and experienced, but we didn't. There is nothing we can do about that. I certainly don't trust Venky's to make another appointment, or indeed to sell to somebody who won't lead us into even greater danger, especially with how they will now feel about the Rovers fans. Allardyce left and I'm glad he did.

My support of Kean isn't unwavering. A lot can happen this Summer. As things stand, I can't see anybody else better suited to the job who we could realistically get though. And as I have said, I like the way we play at times.

[Amo]

He / she writes well and stands by their convictions. You have to admire that no matter what thats based on. Surely.

Umm... No?

Stubbornly sticking to one's beliefs when they are based on ignorance is no cause for respect. Ask the BNP.

I also have no time for someone whose "convictions" dictate that they only post once we've had a couple of decent results. When the going gets tough...

[braddock]

So you believe being entertained is more important than results?

Results come first entertainment second, that's how sport works, its about winning, nothing else.

Personally though I want both.

No. I'm talking as a team who survives, I'd rather watch football I enjoy watching, than not wanting to go and support my team due to the borefest on offer. The two aren't mutually exclusive, as you mention yourself. Well we are surviving. If Kean has shown us anything it's that it isn't Allardyce or down, as was the general belief on this board for well over a year towards the end of his reign, and then carried on into the Kean era. It's rightfully being forgotten now though.

Umm... No?

Stubbornly sticking to one's beliefs when they are based on ignorance is no cause for respect. Ask the BNP.

I also have no time for someone whose "convictions" dictate that they only post once we've had a couple of decent results. When the going gets tough...

I support my team through thick and thin. I don't post on this message board through thick and thin. I'm such an awful person.

[Majiball]

No. I'm talking as a team who survives, I'd rather watch football I enjoy watching, than not wanting to go and support my team due to the borefest on offer. The two aren't mutually exclusive, as you mention yourself. Well we are surviving. If Kean has shown us anything it's that it isn't Allardyce or down, as was the general belief on this board for well over a year towards the end of his reign, and then carried on into the Kean era. It's rightfully being forgotten now though.

I support my team through thick and thin. I don't post on this message board through thick and thin. I'm such an awful person.

your just repeating yourself now, I've already answered all these Q's.

Do you want a badge or are you implying that others don't support the team?

[Amo]

Supporting team through thick & thin = Making excuses for negligent owners & insulting the fanbase?

Mmmkay.

[braddock]

I should really be sleeping now. It's been lovely. I'll see you all around. Sweet dreams.

[patrickvalery]

Umm... No?

Stubbornly sticking to one's beliefs when they are based on ignorance is no cause for respect. Ask the BNP.

I also have no time for someone whose "convictions" dictate that they only post once we've had a couple of decent results. When the going gets tough...

Hang on Toppers! I'm not being associated with the BNP if you don't mind. I don't agree with all of Braddocks opinions as my posts have clearly said. I think he / she enjoys winding up people on here because they bite. But i enjoy his posts in the same way i enjoyed Tonygalesmic's posts. Him and i had numerous disagreements, but i always took the time to digest his posts because it was an opinion argued well enough to bother with. Whether i agree with the opinion or not i always take the time to digest posts from Braddock in the same way i do yourself, Stuart, DGS, Le Chuck, Den, thenodrog, Jim MkII, Steve Moss ......the list goes on. I don't have to agree with them and frequently don't. But admire Braddock for sticking to his guns. Right or wrong.

Edit,

I would also like to name check Bob Flemming, Mattyblue, Tom, yeti dog and ada2020 amongst others.

This is like the Oscars

[DE.]

If Kean has shown us anything it's that it isn't Allardyce or down, as was the general belief on this board for well over a year towards the end of his reign, and then carried on into the Kean era. It's rightfully being forgotten now though.

That's not really true at all.

We survived last season heavily owing to points previously accrued by Allardyce and with a team that was basically his. Extrapolate Kean's record last season across the entire season and we would have gone down. This season we're far from safe yet - you may believe we won't get relegated but the possibility is very much there.

At most Kean has 'proven' that over half a season he didn't do quite badly enough to relegate us, though he came damn close. This season he's proven nothing at all yet. At least wait until we are safe before making such boastful assertions.

[Tom]

I feel so honoured to be in that elite group (unless you mean Tom the villa fan that buggered off when nicko stopped feeding them but still prevents me using the name 'Tom')

I tend to agree though I find having someone with a polar opposite view can provide some good back and forth.

The problem is when you post a lot on a messageboard such as this you take a stance and stick to it, people continue with their stance and sometimes the truth will fall somewhere in no mans land whilst we continue to shout from either end of the battlefield.

I do believe Braddock believes the basis of what he types but I also think he's using a certain amount of poetic licence and enjoying playing up to the reputation.

No harm done in my eyes

[Amo]

Hang on Toppers! I'm not being associated with the BNP if you don't mind. I don't agree with all of Braddocks opinions as my posts have clearly said. I think he / she enjoys winding up people on here because they bite. But i enjoy his posts in the same way i enjoyed Tonygalesmic's posts. Him and i had numerous disagreements, but i always took the time to digest his posts because it was an opinion argued well enough to bother with. Whether i agree with the opinion or not i always take the time to digest posts from Braddock in the same way i do yourself, Stuart, DGS, Le Chuck, Den, thenodrog, Jim MkII, Steve Moss ......the list goes on. I don't have to agree with them and frequently don't. But admire Braddock for sticking to his guns. Right or wrong.

Edit,

I would also like to name check Bob Flemming, Mattyblue, Tom, yeti dog and ada2020 amongst others.

This is like the Oscars

To be honest, I feel embarrassed that you'd group braddock with some of those names (especially ME).

Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, of course, provided the opinion's educated and doesn't come with an added agenda. braddock may indeed believe the nonsense he spurts, but he's clearly on a wind-up mission and people are obliging him (myself included). Must be because there's feck all else to do on here currently. But you obviously enjoy his 'contributions'... so you'd better hope we don't lose to Sunderland.

[jim mk2]

Allardyce left and I'm glad he did.

Condemned in one sentence. You're an idiot.

[Steve Moss]

Stubbornly sticking to one's beliefs when they are based on ignorance is no cause for respect.

Sounds like my sisters.

Condemned in one sentence. You're an idiot.

I rest my case.

[otto man]

your just repeating yourself now, I've already answered all these Q's.

Do you want a badge or are you implying that others don't support the team?

Rather an ironic statement considering the Alzhiemers mob on here parrot the same, thing thread after thread after thread.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Condemned in one sentence. You're an idiot.

Terrible post. Really poor.

[Stuart]

I do believe Braddock believes the basis of what he types but I also think he's using a certain amount of poetic licence and enjoying playing up to the reputation.

No harm done in my eyes

Considering the number of Braddock's posts which are clearly inflammatory - for the sake of winding people up - together with deliberate selection of avatars designed to wind people up, I'm disappointed with your stance as a community manager, Tom.

Patrick points out the sheer volume of posts that Braddock is single-handedly generating (baiting) out of other posters, as a good thing. Yet the tone it has brought to the MB and the number of posters (especially those in Patrick's honours list) who are fed up, bemused or now just ignorant of his/her posts should serve as enough evidence that Braddock is a troll. There is no real debate created - I only see replies to Braddock now and it's just become endless repetition of the same tired, old arguments (no fresh angle or insigh - I've not once thought "Do you know they might have a point" like I might with other posters) and endless repetition of the same frustrated replies. At which point Braddock's work is done and he/she moves on to the next topic - only to return later to stir up some more. Is this what site admin feel is good for community harmony?

I do not like picking on individual posters but this last week, since we beat Wolves, has been ridiculous.

"Playing up to the reputation"? When Gordon or Abbey do that, they receive a ban! I don't expect you to ban Braddock but please don't condone what he/she is doing.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Considering the number of Braddock's posts which are clearly inflammatory - for the sake of winding people up - together with deliberate selection of avatars designed to wind people up, I'm disappointed with your stance as a community manager, Tom.

Patrick points out the sheer volume of posts that Braddock is single-handedly generating (baiting) out of other posters, as a good thing. Yet the tone it has brought to the MB and the number of posters (especially those in Patrick's honours list) who are fed up, bemused or now just ignorant of his/her posts should serve as enough evidence that Braddock is a troll. There is no real debate created - I only see replies to Braddock now and it's just become endless repetition of the same tired, old arguments (no fresh angle or insigh - I've not once thought "Do you know they might have a point" like I might with other posters) and endless repetition of the same frustrated replies. At which point Braddock's work is done and he/she moves on to the next topic - only to return later to stir up some more. Is this what site admin feel is good for community harmony?

I do not like picking on individual posters but this last week, since we beat Wolves, has been ridiculous.

"Playing up to the reputation"? When Gordon or Abbey do that, they receive a ban! I don't expect you to ban Braddock but please don't condone what he/she is doing.

Wow, a whole thread devoted to Braddock!

To be fair, I think he does enjoy a wind up. That said I believe his opinions are genuinely held and he explains his stance in debates, often in the face of personal abuse.

To call somebody a troll or a WUM on the basis that their opinion does not conform with that of the majority is contributing to the stifling of debate imo.

[Tom]

The problem is Stuart I don't believe he started off on the windup, more likely was rounded upon for having an opinion and just exaggerated it from there.

I do agree about the avatars but they aren't in breach of anything as such.

Also worth noting it's easy enough to put a user on ignore if you don't care for anything they put.

We'll keep an eye on it anyway, having an opinion will never be a problem but continuing to push it everywhere in an obtrusive manner can be. I think he has made his point now and could do with leaving it be though.

[Stuart]

To call somebody a troll or a WUM on the basis that their opinion does not conform with that of the majority is contributing to the stifling of debate imo.

I agree but that's not why he/she is being given either label. I'd love to have proper debate, but as I posted this is not happening in this case.

You yourself DGS have similar views to Braddock but you do not go about it in the same way.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

I agree but that's not why he/she is being given either label. I'd love to have proper debate, but as I posted this is not happening in this case.

You yourself DGS have similar views to Braddock but you do not go about it in the same way.

I would stop slightly short of agreeing that all of my views are similar to Braddock's but I take your point.

Anyway, Tom has neatly wrapped it up I reckon.

[Stuart]

Also worth noting it's easy enough to put a user on ignore if you don't care for anything they put.

We'll keep an eye on it anyway, having an opinion will never be a problem but continuing to push it everywhere in an obtrusive manner can be. I think he has made his point now and could do with leaving it be though.

He is on "ignore." And thankfully fewer and fewer posters are quoting his/her posts in order to reply.

Not that I am in any way preeminent, I'll leave it that way for a week and see if things improve.

Even though I don't necessarily agree with them, I do like posters like DGS, imy and Roversmum (amongst others) who challenge and provide different insights even against the tide. Without them the place would become stale. Hopefully Braddock will reach their level as he/she matures.