[Archived] Steve Kean Thread (Poll reset after Stoke game)

[broadsword]

I'm pretty sure Braddock once confessed that they like to post inflammatory viewpoints just to liven things up.

Having the dragon queen as their avatar pretty much sums up the fact that she's looking for a reaction, and getting plenty of it.

No point trying to reason with someone like that, total waste of time,s o put them on ignore.

[braddock]

That's not really true at all.

We survived last season heavily owing to points previously accrued by Allardyce and with a team that was basically his. Extrapolate Kean's record last season across the entire season and we would have gone down. This season we're far from safe yet - you may believe we won't get relegated but the possibility is very much there.

At most Kean has 'proven' that over half a season he didn't do quite badly enough to relegate us, though he came damn close. This season he's proven nothing at all yet. At least wait until we are safe before making such boastful assertions.

I'm quite sure somebody recently posted the points from last season and how much each achieved and there wasn't an awfully large difference at all. Seems unfair that Kean is to get no credit for that. Allardyce gets credit from me for amassing some points.

Condemned in one sentence. You're an idiot.

Me being glad Allardyce isn't manager makes me an idiot? It's merely an opinion and not one I've said you have to agree with me on. I was just stating how I felt on the matter. Do calm down. Sure I'd have rather he'd have been replaced properly, but I've no regrets in his departure at all.

Considering the number of Braddock's posts which are clearly inflammatory - for the sake of winding people up - together with deliberate selection of avatars designed to wind people up, I'm disappointed with your stance as a community manager, Tom.

Patrick points out the sheer volume of posts that Braddock is single-handedly generating (baiting) out of other posters, as a good thing. Yet the tone it has brought to the MB and the number of posters (especially those in Patrick's honours list) who are fed up, bemused or now just ignorant of his/her posts should serve as enough evidence that Braddock is a troll. There is no real debate created - I only see replies to Braddock now and it's just become endless repetition of the same tired, old arguments (no fresh angle or insigh - I've not once thought "Do you know they might have a point" like I might with other posters) and endless repetition of the same frustrated replies. At which point Braddock's work is done and he/she moves on to the next topic - only to return later to stir up some more. Is this what site admin feel is good for community harmony?

I do not like picking on individual posters but this last week, since we beat Wolves, has been ridiculous.

"Playing up to the reputation"? When Gordon or Abbey do that, they receive a ban! I don't expect you to ban Braddock but please don't condone what he/she is doing.

Because the tone on here has always been lollipops and rainbows hasn't it? The abuse was always there, it was just aimed in other directions, like at Kean. Still is, and fair enough, but what I'm receiving, and at times giving out, is only what was already present on the board.

There is an ignore function I believe. If it is getting to you too much, use it.

Wow, a whole thread devoted to Braddock!

To be fair, I think he does enjoy a wind up. That said I believe his opinions are genuinely held and he explains his stance in debates, often in the face of personal abuse.

To call somebody a troll or a WUM on the basis that their opinion does not conform with that of the majority is contributing to the stifling of debate imo.

Thank you. This is how I see it. I do resort to underhand comments myself at times but it's hard not to take the odd swipe when they are nipping at your ankles after every post. I make posts for people to reply to of course, that's what happens on a messageboard - nobody would like it if they never got a reply, but I try to make sure my posts are reasonably well thought out and holding my opinion on the matter.

[Rover-the-Top]

It's sad that on a forum supposedly for Blackburn Rovers fans, someone who posts an opinion in favour of the club is labelled a "WUM".

[braddock]

We'll keep an eye on it anyway, having an opinion will never be a problem but continuing to push it everywhere in an obtrusive manner can be. I think he has made his point now and could do with leaving it be though.

Fair enough.

However if somebody makes a post that I disagree with I may well reply with my disagreement. If the other side is being pushed forward 24/7 then I don't see why this side can't be too. It will only be me replying though, not leading the debate. The only thing being conversations tend to evolve and revert around similar topics so it's hard not to bring certain aspects in when the person I am debating with brings new factors into the discussion which could reference other topics. I'm going to struggle to pick and choose what to say if I find it relevant to the discussion in hand, but moderate me any way you wish.

Thanks for the heads up, mind.

Anyway yes, I've nothing further to add your honour. Let's move on.

[47er]

I'm quite sure somebody recently posted the points from last season and how much each achieved and there wasn't an awfully large difference at all. Seems unfair that Kean is to get no credit for that. Allardyce gets credit from me for amassing some points.

I did and you've deliberately misrepresented it.

but I try to make sure my posts are reasonably well thought out and holding my opinion on the matter.

A joke surely?

You're on ignore. If you think by provoking people ad nauseam is promoting debate than you're not as clever as you think you are.

It's sad that on a forum supposedly for Blackburn Rovers fans, someone who posts an opinion in favour of the club is labelled a "WUM".

Sad and pathetic that anyone could draw that conclusion. Venkys and Kean are not the club,

[braddock]

When will we be resetting the poll? I suggest a time is agreed prior to a game, rather than waiting till we win a game or lose a game to force the issue which will already be decided. Decide beforehand then stick by it. I see no reason it shouldn't be after Sunderland, a time just after a home game when more people will have seen themselves what has happened and can draw their own conclusions - which can also be based on everything that has ever happened under Kean. It's just interesting to see if anybodies opinions have changed and know for a fact you are looking at more up to date opinions on the matter.

So after the Sunderland match, win, lose or draw?

[otto man]

It's sad that on a forum supposedly for Blackburn Rovers fans, someone who posts an opinion in favour of the club is labelled a "WUM".

Absolutely right. The trouble is, The boards these days are dominated by a clique of individuals who flame anyone who dares to hold a contrary opinion. This is borne out by the number of regular posters who are conspicuous by their absence. Whilst I don't always agree with him you have to applaud Braddocks determination to face down these individuals.

[Amo]

I think braddock's comported himself with great dignity over the last few days. He's had to endure a massive amount of pressure from fellow supporters when he's only trying to go about business like the next man. I think it's downright disgraceful that our own supporters can't back him for the good of the club and help us move onwards and upwards. It wouldn't at all surprise me if the poor chap had to rent a bodyguard, thus is the state of affairs. Rovers fans should be ashamed of themselves.

[otto man]

The problem is Stuart I don't believe he started off on the windup, more likely was rounded upon for having an opinion and just exaggerated it from there.

I do agree about the avatars but they aren't in breach of anything as such.

Also worth noting it's easy enough to put a user on ignore if you don't care for anything they put.

We'll keep an eye on it anyway, having an opinion will never be a problem but continuing to push it everywhere in an obtrusive manner can be. I think he has made his point now and could do with leaving it be though.

I hope that includes those who on an almost daily basis label others as " Scum, Illigitimates, liars, ignorant, wind up merchants, sad, pathetic" etc etc, or is it only those who upset the Alzheimers mob?

[otto man]

I think braddock's comported himself with great dignity over the last few days. He's had to endure a massive amount of pressure from fellow supporters when he's only trying to go about business like the next man. I think it's downright disgraceful that our own supporters can't back him for the good of the club and help us move onwards and upwards. It wouldn't at all surprise me if the poor chap had to rent a bodyguard, thus is the state of affairs. Rovers fans should be ashamed of themselves.

Funny aint it how a man who can't seem to raise his eyes above tit level seems to feel he is intellectually superior to others. Been taking lessons in "Only my opinion counts" from TGM, Toppers?

[eire3382]

I'm not sure if I'm the only one who has noticed this but it has been said on here and in the media that we play better football now than under sam.

I don't see it, we still hit it long at every available chance and still rarely put a string of passes together.

The only difference is when we hit the ball long now yak can hold it up much better than the strikers sam had.

Honestly forgetting who the manager is I don't think there has been any improvement.

Junior does offer a new dimention but he was just breaking into the team when sam was sacked so its hard to argue one way or the other where that would have went.

There have been one off matches where we had moments but they we had similar moments under sam.

I do have a very very low opinion of kean and a high opinion of sam. But I don't think its affecting my opinion on this.

For me this is myth created by kean and the media as a way of explaining his horrific results, but there is no basis for it.

I'm interested to see what others think, in particular those who think there has been an improvement. What am I missing?

[RoyRover]

I'm not sure if I'm the only one who has noticed this but it has been said on here and in the media that we play better football now than under sam.

I don't see it, we still hit it long at every available chance and still rarely put a string of passes together.

The only difference is when we hit the ball long now yak can hold it up much better than the strikers sam had.

Honestly forgetting who the manager is I don't think there has been any improvement.

Junior does offer a new dimention but he was just breaking into the team when sam was sacked so its hard to argue one way or the other where that would have went.

There have been one off matches where we had moments but they we had similar moments under sam.

I do have a very very low opinion of kean and a high opinion of sam. But I don't think its affecting my opinion on this.

For me this is myth created by kean and the media as a way of explaining his horrific results, but there is no basis for it.

I'm interested to see what others think, in particular those who think there has been an improvement. What am I missing?

Our 'football' is a complete mess. It revolves around the hope that Holiett can skin four or five players and score a wonder goal or lay it on a plate for Yakubu, we just lump the ball into the box and hope that someone can scrambe it home or Yakubu will be able to pull another rabbit out of the hat. Everyone in the media has forgotten that when Steve Kean took over, he would be revolutionising the way we play and within a couple of weeks it would just be like watch Barcelona. We are worse than when Allardyce was the manager. But that doesn't matter, because Kean is dignified, always positive and has a bodyguard.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Personally I think those who say we play exactly the same under Kean as we did Sam do Sam a disservice. His approach is very specific and takes months to drill into the players to get them doing it as he intends. It's all about them knowing exactly what to do in a wide range of specific situations; there's no way all the newer players to the team will just pick it up in 5 mins.

[DE.]

Personally I think those who say we play exactly the same under Kean as we did Sam do Sam a disservice. His approach is very specific and takes months to drill into the players to get them doing it as he intends. It's all about them knowing exactly what to do in a wide range of specific situations; there's no way all the newer players to the team will just pick it up in 5 mins.

I'd generally agree with that.

I do think Allardyce's basic system can be drilled into players fairly quickly, though. Look at the job he did after Ince - within a few matches we were winning games again. The finer points of his system - in terms of percentages, etc - will be difficult for the average footballer to grasp which might be why it often appears as if the players are just lumping it up the pitch, particularly when Allardyce has only been in the job a short time.

I don't think we really have much of a system under Kean. It's kind of like what Allardyce's football would be like if there was no method to his madness, an assortment of long balls, passing moves, and a massive dose of pressure from the opposition as we fail to keep hold of the ball.

Let's face it - without individual moments of magic from Hoilett and Yakubu we'd be sunk this season. Hoilett will be gone come next season and we know there won't be a replacement anywhere near his level. What happens when we have a team full of the likes of Bradley Orr, Petrovic and Marcus Olsson? Kean's "tactics" certainly aren't going to overcome the lack of ability in the overall team.

I fear if Kean remains in charge for next season, shorn of the remaining talents of previous regimes, we will be in for the worst season in the past couple of decades.

[greco]

Absolutely right. The trouble is, The boards these days are dominated by a clique of individuals who flame anyone who dares to hold a contrary opinion. This is borne out by the number of regular posters who are conspicuous by their absence. Whilst I don't always agree with him you have to applaud Braddocks determination to face down these individuals.

yes.. i too see braddock as a hero. I´ve been trying to gather my courage, it´s been tough, a tough journey and now im finally at a place, where my courage is above average and i too want to challenge that clique of individuals. That felt good, i never thougt i would gather courage to write my feelings and opinions on a football messageboard.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I'd generally agree with that.

I do think Allardyce's basic system can be drilled into players fairly quickly, though. Look at the job he did after Ince - within a few matches we were winning games again. The finer points of his system - in terms of percentages, etc - will be difficult for the average footballer to grasp which might be why it often appears as if the players are just lumping it up the pitch, particularly when Allardyce has only been in the job a short time.

I don't think we really have much of a system under Kean. It's kind of like what Allardyce's football would be like if there was no method to his madness, an assortment of long balls, passing moves, and a massive dose of pressure from the opposition as we fail to keep hold of the ball.

Let's face it - without individual moments of magic from Hoilett and Yakubu we'd be sunk this season. Hoilett will be gone come next season and we know there won't be a replacement anywhere near his level. What happens when we have a team full of the likes of Bradley Orr, Petrovic and Marcus Olsson? Kean's "tactics" certainly aren't going to overcome the lack of ability in the overall team.

I fear if Kean remains in charge for next season, shorn of the remaining talents of previous regimes, we will be in for the worst season in the past couple of decades.

Completely agree that Kean has no system as such, but plenty of other managers put their primary belief in players over system rather than system over players, but most are better at finding enough good players.

Sam's approach to me was firstly to get the ball very quickly into certain areas of the pitch, even if we had no players there. Then to either keep or hustle for the ball there for as long as possible to draw a set-piece of any kind, think Diouf holding off a defender till he eventually fell over. The ball was then put into the danger area and anytime the ball came out it was to be put back again, even from a decentish shooting position, think MGP's blind little dinks. All this has to become instinctive.

[Tom]

I hope that includes those who on an almost daily basis label others as " Scum, Illigitimates, liars, ignorant, wind up merchants, sad, pathetic" etc etc, or is it only those who upset the Alzheimers mob?

Trust me we try and keep a balance throughout, if you see anything you think is out of order please report it as it's a massive help to us.

[greco]

Personally I think those who say we play exactly the same under Kean as we did Sam do Sam a disservice. His approach is very specific and takes months to drill into the players to get them doing it as he intends. It's all about them knowing exactly what to do in a wide range of specific situations; there's no way all the newer players to the team will just pick it up in 5 mins.

they dont play the same, but its not just about tactics when we compare them, its also about entertainment. Sam was blasted for his percentage football, it wasnt entertaining nor was it beatifull, the critics said. Alot of fans wnated him gone, based on those preferences and here we are with a manager, who doesnt know percentages or deliver entertainment, atleat imo.

[47er]

Trust me we try and keep a balance throughout, if you see anything you think is out of order please report it as it's a massive help to us.

Balance? Have a look at the various threads. The WUM is all over them! Content and avatar totally designed to provoke. This is not debate.

[otto man]

yes.. i too see braddock as a hero. I´ve been trying to gather my courage, it´s been tough, a tough journey and now im finally at a place, where my courage is above average and i too want to challenge that clique of individuals. That felt good, i never thougt i would gather courage to write my feelings and opinions on a football messageboard.

Topman beat ya to it with the sarcasm quite some time ago. Do try and be original lad or is that too difficult?

[Exiled in Toronto]

Trust me we try and keep a balance throughout, if you see anything you think is out of order please report it as it's a massive help to us.

To mind mind it's not about there being some specific comments to complain about, it's just that for months now, 15-20 posters have been posting effectively the same thing multiple times every day in multiple threads. It's their right to do so but it makes for a very poor read and discussion. I'm sure your visitor count and active poster count are going the same way as the Ewood attendances.

[booth]

Balance? Have a look at the various threads. The WUM is all over them! Content and avatar totally designed to provoke. This is not debate.

He's just an attention seeker. Do what you do normally and ignore them, they soon move on.

[otto man]

Balance? Have a look at the various threads. The WUM is all over them! Content and avatar totally designed to provoke. This is not debate.

Debate? You don't want debate. You just want a board membership who do nothing but turn every thread no matter how well meaning or how diverse into yet another anti Kean and Venky diatribe and God help anyone like Braddock who has the temerity to disagree. Hypocritical? Much?

To mind mind it's not about there being some specific comments to complain about, it's just that for months now, 15-20 posters have been posting effectively the same thing multiple times every day in multiple threads. It's their right to do so but it makes for a very poor read and discussion. I'm sure your visitor count and active poster count are going the same way as the Ewood attendances.

+100

[ABBEY]

Considering the number of Braddock's posts which are clearly inflammatory - for the sake of winding people up - together with deliberate selection of avatars designed to wind people up, I'm disappointed with your stance as a community manager, Tom.

Patrick points out the sheer volume of posts that Braddock is single-handedly generating (baiting) out of other posters, as a good thing. Yet the tone it has brought to the MB and the number of posters (especially those in Patrick's honours list) who are fed up, bemused or now just ignorant of his/her posts should serve as enough evidence that Braddock is a troll. There is no real debate created - I only see replies to Braddock now and it's just become endless repetition of the same tired, old arguments (no fresh angle or insigh - I've not once thought "Do you know they might have a point" like I might with other posters) and endless repetition of the same frustrated replies. At which point Braddock's work is done and he/she moves on to the next topic - only to return later to stir up some more. Is this what site admin feel is good for community harmony?

I do not like picking on individual posters but this last week, since we beat Wolves, has been ridiculous.

"Playing up to the reputation"? When Gordon or Abbey do that, they receive a ban! I don't expect you to ban Braddock but please don't condone what he/she is doing.

Tbf toms aw reet..... It's another mod who has a beef with me n gordy wordy .

[47er]

Debate? You don't want debate. You just want a board membership who do nothing but turn every thread no matter how well meaning or how diverse into yet another anti Kean and Venky diatribe and God help anyone like Braddock who has the temerity to disagree. Hypocritical? Much?

"God help anyone like Braddock?" I can understand if he's being sent off to Afghanistan, or taking on 3 armed thugs but does it really take courage to come on here and wind people up?

I'd suggest not. There's no problem for me anymore, he's on ignore and if nobody replied to the WUM he'd slink away because his pathetic needs wouldn't be gratified.

So, I'll leave it at that and freely avail myself of that freedom of opinion you say you're keen on.