[Archived] Steve Kean Thread (Poll reset after Stoke game)

[onlyonejackwalker]

No other manager in all the years I have been watching Rovers have had to put up with the turmoil that has enveloped the club since the take over. Even the summer transfer window was a farce caused by behind the scenes issues. Even an experienced manager would have struggled with what Kean has had to cope with. Its not a good enough reason to keep him - but IMO he has been severely hampered by the inexperience of the owners (as well as his own inexperience).

Well I don't know how long you have been watching, but I assure you that other Rovers managers have had to tolerate far worse than anything Kean has been through. Many of our managers managed with almost nothing to spend for the majority of their time at the club and had far inferior squads gifted them to start off with. I doubt they earnt his salary either.

I take your point that things could have been easier for Kean as an inexperieinced new starter. I disagree a more experieinced manager would have also struggled, they would have seen it all before and taken it completely in their strides. Hence the term experienced.

At the end of the day Kean is a very lucky lad to have been given this opportunity. He is blowing it big style. I look forward to the day he is removed and the club and fans are united again.

[47er]

Care to "guesstimate" the lottery numbers this weekend? Same thing.

Look, I'm not defending Kean, I too want him gone, but to make some of the comments (in hindsight) are questionable.

The fact is, when Kean was appointed it would have been a 50/50 guess as to whether he was going to be "successful", and that could have been applied to any manager we appointed. As time went on, yes, it became apparent he was, to put it politely, crap.

But don't tell me, in all honesty, you knew he was going to be a failure. That would have come, increasingly, in the games following his appointment.

C'mn Dave---you're better than that. You must know that any lottery numbers are drawn completely at random and nothing that has happened before has any influence on what will happen to next weeks draw.

No data exists to help you pick lottery numbers.

Kean was a failure waiting to happen, he simply had no managerial experience at all and we didn't have a strong squad. Given that his remit was to suddenly change the style of play the team was used to, it was fairly easy to have the foresight to see he would fail.I and loads of others said it would be a disaster.

Yes I felt given the above reference points he would fail and I confidently said so. I didn't know because I can't tell the future but I knew the odds were heavily in favour of failure. I said at the time that it was an" unacceptable risk."

[Andy]

So, predicting the lottery numbers (complete guess-work) is now the same as using logic (lack of experience and last season's performances) to see that Kean was always likely to sink massively this season?!

Ok then...

[onlyonejackwalker]

Having thought about it DMTP....you must have been supporting as long as I or you would not have known that David Mail had the tightest perm in football.....

Which begs the question how you think all other Rovers managers from back then had it far better than Clowno.

[Gav]

Nobody wanted Kean as manager, some gave him a chance, some didn’t, its not a case of right or wrong surely.

[K-Hod]

Nobody obviously could have known just how bad Kean would have done as manager, but it was fairly clear to most with brain power than replacing an experienced manager in Sam Allardyce with a rookie coach was a bad idea....

[den]

Nobody wanted Kean as manager, some gave him a chance, some didn’t, its not a case of right or wrong surely.

Course it is Gav.

Some said it was likely to leave us in danger of relegation, some said it wasn't. Same as some people said that Venky's actions would see us in danger - while others said they wouldn't.

That's the truth, isn't it?

[chris]

Course it is Gav.

Some said it was likely to leave us in danger of relegation, some said it wasn't. Same as some people said that Venky's actions would see us in danger - while others said they wouldn't.

That's the truth, isn't it?

Most fans didn't want Kean though, a few fell for his charm, I gave Nicko enough stick for calling Kean a future "gem".

If Kean convinced Nicko he was a "gem" in a 5 minute conference, we can all see how Venkys would fall for it.

Plus Venkys have said this weekends its a results business rather then "we back the manager".

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Having thought about it DMTP....you must have been supporting as long as I or you would not have known that David Mail had the tightest perm in football.....

Which begs the question how you think all other Rovers managers from back then had it far better than Clowno.

I admit to being a glory hunter - I first started going to Rovers in the season we got promoted to the old 2nd division under Howard Kendall (Kean should watch some videos from this era to see how to set up a defence).

I admit that the managers from that era had plenty top deal with - from lack of finances, to training facilities and onwards. I also admit that I was mainly thinking of the Premiership era. However the one thing that Rovers have always seem to have - is that we were always well run. We didn't have the behind the scenes turmoil - with managers getting sacked for no apparent reason - respected Chief Execs being marginalised prior to leaving the club - all being run from thousands of miles away by owners that were obviously let down by their advisors and left high and dry without the experience in how to run a club. Add to this the problems with banks - the whole thing has been a mess - unlike anything we have seen.

It could be argued that an experienced manager may have handled it better - I can think of many experienced managers who would have walked.

[47er]

It could be argued that an experienced manager may have handled it better - I can think of many experienced managers who would have walked.

Yes, he has the heart of a lion. Or is it the hide of a rhinoceros?

[Gav]

Course it is Gav.

Some said it was likely to leave us in danger of relegation, some said it wasn't. Same as some people said that Venky's actions would see us in danger - while others said they wouldn't.

That's the truth, isn't it?

Bunkum.

[tony gale's mic]

Nobody wanted Kean as manager, some gave him a chance, some didn’t, its not a case of right or wrong surely.

Ultimately we're a football club, not a charity. We should only give chances to those that deserve it. Some of us were certain as we could be without having a real life working crystal ball that he'd be a shambles, and so wanted him out at the earliest possible opportunity.

We would've been delighted to have been proved wrong mind, but it never looked likely to happen.

[mark1875]

It seems to me that even those people who wish "to give kean more time" are not exactly expecting him to suddenly become a success. they are voting more time just to wait and see if he can turn it round.

The more time we give Steve Kean, means less time for a proper manager. Keep Kean until December and with his current points to game ratio we are then denying a new manager even a few games to settle in, he would need to hit the ground running just like Sam Allardyce did in December 08.

The choice for me is give Kean more time, or give that extra time to a new manager? the answer to this question in my eyes is a no-brainer

[chris]

It seems to me that even those people who wish "to give kean more time" are not exactly expecting him to suddenly become a success. they are voting more time just to wait and see if he can turn it round.

The more time we give Steve Kean, means less time for a proper manager. Keep Kean until December and with his current points to game ratio we are then denying a new manager even a few games to settle in, he would need to hit the ground running just like Sam Allardyce did in December 08.

The choice for me is give Kean more time, or give that extra time to a new manager? the answer to this question in my eyes is a no-brainer

Have the remember that fans are fans and therefore impatient.

Obviously I would like as proper manager, but I'm pretty sure we gave Harford, Ince and Hodgson over 10 games of the season, I think it was October, November, November respectively when they were sacked.

You can argue that Kean had a bad season last year but it was at the request of the owner to completely alter the style of play.

The owners are not 100% convinced yet, I'm hoping Man City will do it.

Football is unpredictable even now I'm only 99% certain Kean going to F'k it up.

Petrovic is a big diseaster for Kean, buying a player who is currently rubbish in a position that needed immediate impact was dangerous.

The Titantic could turn faster the Petrovic. We don't have time for him to settle.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Plus Venkys have said this weekends its a results business rather then "we back the manager".

Where have they said this - not questioning it - just not seen it. I think everybody agrees - whether they think he should be hung drawn and quartered or those that think he should be given a little more time - that he should be judged on results. I think the main contention is whether you hold last season against him - or give a clean sheet with his own players (not arguing either way - so don't shoot me).

If it is a results business - we should see some movement fairly soon.

[chris]

Where have they said this - not questioning it - just not seen it. I think everybody agrees - whether they think he should be hung drawn and quartered or those that think he should be given a little more time - that he should be judged on results. I think the main contention is whether you hold last season against him - or give a clean sheet with his own players (not arguing either way - so don't shoot me).

If it is a results business - we should see some movement fairly soon.

Kamy quoted it, direct quote from Venkys PR:

"The manager is judged on results and last night it was a bad result"

[mark1875]

I'm pretty sure we gave Harford, Ince and Hodgson over 10 games of the season, I think it was October, November, November respectively when they were sacked.

Harford resigned in October

Ince was sacked in December

Hodgson Sacked in November

but they did have better win percentages than Kean, two of them even as high as 37-38%, something Kean could only dream of

[chris]

Harford resigned in October

Ince was sacked in December

Hodgson Sacked in November

but they did have better win percentages than Kean, two of them even as high as 37-38%, something Kean could only dream of

I really don't want to get on to Harford all I will say is he took the following talent from 1st to 20th in 18 months.

Guessimate value in today’s market:

• Flowers 10 million
  
• Le Saux 14 million
  
• Hendry 22 million
  
• Berg 15 million
  
• Kenna 5 million
  
• Wilcox 12 million
  
• Sherwood 14 million
  
• Batty 16 million
  
• Ripley 13 million
  
• Alan Shearer 50 million
  
• Chris Sutton 22 million
  

So Kean didn't quite get the same standard of players to be compared to Harford or Hodgson.

[mark1875]

I really don't want to get on to Harford all I will say is he took the following talent from 1st to 20th in 18 months.

Guessimate value in today’s market:

• Flowers 10 million
  
• Le Saux 14 million
  
• Hendry 22 million
  
• Berg 15 million
  
• Kenna 5 million
  
• Wilcox 12 million
  
• Sherwood 14 million
  
• Batty 16 million
  
• Ripley 13 million
  
• Alan Shearer 50 million
  
• Chris Sutton 22 million
  

So Kean didn't quite get the same standard of players to be compared to Harford or Hodgson.

can't argue with that lol.

but as in my original point, Kean gets more time means the next manager will get less time.

When Harford left, were lucky Parkes did us proud,

when Hodgson left, we never survived cos of his replacement largely.

when Ince left, were lucky Sam got early results fast.

why give a manager more time, when nobody believes he will turn it round. people seem willing to give him more time just for the sake of it, without actually believing he will succeed

[chris]

can't argue with that lol.

but as in my original point, Kean gets more time means the next manager will get less time.

When Harford left, were lucky Parkes did us proud,

when Hodgson left, we never survived cos of his replacement largely.

when Ince left, were lucky Sam got early results fast.

why give a manager more time, when nobody believes he will turn it round. people seem willing to give him more time just for the sake of it, without actually believing he will succeed

Sam and Parkes kept us up easily though.

Kidd didn't because he was maybe slightly better then Kean but still very bad. He did sign Jansen and Gilespie and Short who served us well in later years.

I don't really want to risk Kean being here too long, but it could be 10 games.

[mark1875]

Sam and Parkes kept us up easily though.

Sam did in the end, however Parkes survived by 2 points (would have been one had middlesboro not been deducted), thats cutting it too fine

and as you said the side we had then was of far better quality

[chris]

Sam did in the end, however Parkes survived by 2 points (would have been one had middlesboro not been deducted), thats cutting it too fine

and as you said the side we had then was of far better quality

surely our great goal deifference counts as a point lol still would have come 13th

fair point though it will be a tough year.

[Gav]

Ultimately we're a football club, not a charity. We should only give chances to those that deserve it. Some of us were certain as we could be without having a real life working crystal ball that he'd be a shambles, and so wanted him out at the earliest possible opportunity.

We would've been delighted to have been proved wrong mind, but it never looked likely to happen.

David Moyes was viewed in a similar vein when promoted from coach to manager, doesn't always work out badly TGM.

[Mattyblue]

But PNE were in the third divison at the time GAV, he learnt his trade in the lower reaches like potential managers have done since year dot.

[Guest Rovers4Good]

All this positive spin for me is for 2 reasons: 1 Hes frightened of coming out and telling everyone what they saw was really true and that we were sh!te for fear of upsetting the players by criticising them in public and 2 as soon as he starts saying we were sh!te in public then the owners might start realising that the fans were right all along which would mean they might get rid of him.

I may well be wrong but to come out after the Newcastle game and say that the game hinged on the decision to allow the 3rd goal to me smacks of a deluded fool when eveyone can see that we were by far 2nd best throughout and deserved absolutely nothing out of the game

Yeh i agree Kean is a deluded t****r and can't for the life of me think what he's doing managing our club. The sooner we get rid the better and to be beaten in the way we did against Newcastle who we've beaten 5 out of the last 6 shows just how bad we are.

Also, the bit in the Telegraph were he's now asking the fringe players to take their chance shows to me that he's trying to palm yet something else off by saying we've got too many injuries but let's face it he's lost the players and they don't want to play for this short stodgey scotch egg anymore.