Pune trip

[thenodrog]

Gordon, I'd be much more impressed with your 'conscientious objector' stance ... if you'd actually been invited.

Ah there's the rub! You have I haven't, an unecessary but revealing brag imo. Where have you parked your good old fashioned socialist principles now Neil?

Moving swiftly on to avoid you any unnecessary embarrassment.... Invitation only is hardly likely to get a decent cross section of opinion is it? As for being impressed with my stance I don't care what your interpretation of my opinion is .... I simply would not have gone! It sends out all the wrong signals. Gunner and I agree that strategically any meeting should be here. Why are you struggling with that? I'm not given to telling lies. Tell you what Neil allow me to really really impress you.... you bring your ticket to my office and I'll shred it immediately and in front of your eyes. Deal? Bring me all 9 if you can prize them away from the others and I'll do the same.

btw I was talking to a relative of one of the 9 yesterday and I expressed my opinion to which I received the reply 'well who's going to turn a free trip to india with the team down?' I rest my case.

If you must go then how about asking Phillip to write down a list of questions that need to be asked and publishing their replies? How about asking a certain ex chairman for a list of questions(under a cloak of anonymity of course)? An ex secretary maybe? More pertinantly perhaps a certain ex FD? Alternatively if you want to represent supporters properly how about a thread on here where questions can be voted on with the top 20 being asked and the replies minuted and published on here?

[jim mk2]

Venk'ys claim that they are meeting "disgruntled" fans is laughable. The majority of those going wouldn't say boo to a goose while some are actually supportive of the new regime so I doubt they are going to give the owners the rough ride they deserve. The trip should be seen for what it is - a jolly for a selected few non-dissidents, another elaborate PR exercise on the part of the owners, and a sham.

[Al]

You know the forum could have kept this all quiet and just went. When reading some of the posts on here, some may wish they had (not refering to your own posts). I hope the forum members take note of those who have given them abuse and deny them any information on how the trip went.

No way could this have been kept from the newspapers, and that is the most childish and undemocratic suggestion I have ever seen on a forum. By the way there is no way I would want to go to Pune prsonally. I just want the views of the majority to be expressed rather than a mutual stroking party.

[Mattyblue]

Now I wouldn't go that far james, but posters on here need to get real.

The FF are not rabble rousers, by definition they are in place to help the club.

So, these posts I keep seeing wanting answers on SEM, Kean's future, club finances etc are going to be disapointed as I honestly can't see them getting answers from Bilaj et al in a Q&A, can you?

[3rdpillar]

Pune9 do not represent me, nor my residence nor, my views. It s PR stunt and a poor one at that, END OF.

Keep safe, I will listen to your feedback from the trip. You will then be representatives of VENKEYS.

YES PUNE9 YOU WILL BECOME REPRESENTATIVES AND SPOKESPERSONS FOR VENKEYS

[LeChuck]

Things are falling into place. All that is now needed is success on the pitch and all is set for a new and exciting future for Blackburn Rovers.

I think you've trivialised what is by far the most important factor at the club.

It's easy to build an academy in Pune. It's easy to sign younger players. It's easy to introduce youth players into the team. It's easy to have enthusiastic owners.

All that counts for nothing if we get relegated. We are one of the favourites to go down and have a manager with an awful record. Success on the field is by far the hardest part to get right because there are 19 other clubs trying their hardest to achieve the same. So far they've made a pig's ear of it, mainly by appointing a manager way out of his depth.

[Tom]

Venk'ys claim that they are meeting "disgruntled" fans is laughable. The majority of those going wouldn't say boo to a goose while some are actually supportive of the new regime so I doubt they are going to give the owners the rough ride they deserve.

When did Venkys claim to be meeting disgruntled fans I haven't seen anything from them yet.

[Al]

Pune9 do not represent me, nor my residence nor, my views. It s PR stunt and a poor one at that, END OF.

Keep safe, I will listen to your feedback from the trip. You will then be representatives of VENKEYS.

YES PUNE9 YOU WILL BECOME REPRESENTATIVES AND SPOKESPERSONS FOR VENKEYS

Exactly my fear but to be honest any delegation, wether hand picked by the Venkys, or voted for by us, would probably become Venkys spokespersons after being treated to the type of corporate hopitality that is going to be in store for the chosen eleven. It's a cheap price to pay to get the admins. etc. of the largest group of supporters on side.

[den]

I'm sorry Jisty but you have got this wrong.

To be fair mum, Jisty hasn't got it wrong, the Telegraph has got it wrong. They have set your group up as representatives of the club’s supporters, which you aren't - and also as a group of disgruntled supporters - which you aren't. That will be tied in by some fans, [not on here because we know the difference], with the marchers - which you weren't. That's something that could work against you folks and something you might need to address.

Personally I think this whole trip is no big deal. Someone posted earlier, that the only thing that concerns the fans is team results. I doubt come mid season, that anyone on the terraces watching rovers will be considering what happened between the FF and Venky's.

I wouldn't have gone to Pune, I've got to say. You guys though have decided to do it, so just go and enjoy it. I don't begrudge you this at all.

[Glenn]

Glenn do you believe that it would be right for disclosure of info to those going to India?, only to be told this must not made public.

I realise it's early days in the building of the relationship but surely if the owners want to make a start then all the info has to be available to all.

Someone mentioned a podcast, well I wouldn't go as far as that but surely the Raos and the club would maybe agree to the meeting being recorded, after all is that not what a number of journos have done during their visits to the Raos humble abode.

I appreciate info could still be passed off the record but at least the rest of the fan base would get to hear how the meeting was structured and be able to gauge the answers to the questions for themselves.

A recorded meeting would mean noone needs to minute the meeting,

We're currently yet to be briefed on itinerary, what form of interaction may take place and the etiquette surrounding the disclosure of what we learn, but ultimately whether this is a genuine attempt to interact with the fans or a PR exercise (or a combination of the two) then surely they'd wanting is us to pass on what we've learnt. Telling people things in private, 9 at a time, in attempt get the them on side, would be a rather silly, expensive and time consuming way of winning the fan base over.

[Wilsbowski]

Really don't know what all the fuss is about this trip.

If the 9 get a chance to at least raise some of the fans concerns with the owners then it has got to be beneficial to the club.

If they do get the chance to raise concerns and choose not to then I believe there is a case to question them.

But if they don't even get the chance to question the owners, then at least they have got a free holiday which I certainly don't begrudge them for.

[Grez]

Pune9 do not represent me, nor my residence nor, my views. It s PR stunt and a poor one at that, END OF.

Keep safe, I will listen to your feedback from the trip. You will then be representatives of VENKEYS.

YES PUNE9 YOU WILL BECOME REPRESENTATIVES AND SPOKESPERSONS FOR VENKEYS

Are you 12 years old? How about lining the 9 up against the blues bar wall and hurling stones at them in a life of Brian-esque fashion.

I protested last week, but I am very happy the club have made this move... How long have we all asked for a communication link into the club.

Your post smacks of sour grapes - if you had gone, what would you have said productively that they would have listened to? Grow up

[jim mk2]

If the trip proves to be a very nice holiday but in fact a total waste of time with regards to the discovering more about the owners and the problems at BRFC I would hope that the inglorious 11 will have the gumption to say so. Otherwise they will forever be labelled as mouthpieces of a secretive and disliked regime that has damaged our football club - and I'm sure none of them would want that, would they ?

[Tom]

Really don't know what all the fuss is about this trip.

If the 9 get a chance to at least raise some of the fans concerns with the owners then it has got to be beneficial to the club.

If they do get the chance to raise concerns and choose not to then I believe there is a case to question them.

But if they don't even get the chance to question the owners, then at least they have got a free holiday which I certainly don't begrudge them for.

The fact is we don't yet know the form of it, it may just be Venkys want to interact with the fans forum, find out what we do as a group and they will tell us a bit about and show us what they do and what they want from the club.

I think it is extremely short sighted of some folk who would seemingly prefer a group of fans go over screaming at the owners and possibly risking cutting all ties in the future.

If Venkys want to interact with the fans in any way possible I see it as a positve and a way forward.

Edit - Jim none of us are covering anything up as we don't really know anything as of yet, I can assure you none of us will lie on our return, if there isn't a chance to ask questions we will say that.

[roversmum]

If the trip proves to be a very nice holiday but in fact a total waste of time with regards to the discovering more about the owners and the problems at BRFC I would hope that the inglorious 11 will have the gumption to say so. Otherwise they will forever be labelled as mouthpieces of a secretive and disliked regime that has damaged our football club - and I'm sure none of them would want that, would they ?

Despite those who insist the contrary, there is no crisis at the club. In fact, there is plenty of positivity. Some have left for various reasons. I've always said there is a way of doing things, Jim. Jumping in with both feet is not necessarily the best way to get views across. Of course, the point of a football club is to win matches and hopefully things are coming together re that issue.

As has been said, we go to represent Blackburn Rovers, the club, the fans and the town, and we will all do that to the best of our ability.

[mark1875]

I hope the forum members take note of those who have given them abuse and deny them any information on how the trip went.

what a pathetic suggestion

so those people who are of the opinion this is a bad idea or whom believe the wrong people have been selected, in your mind should be denied any information which is public to the rest of us?

just because they have an opinion which doesn't agree with this trip is absolutely no excuse to keep them in the dark regarding a club they are passionate and concerned about!! If any information is to be made public it should be made public to all supporters and not just those who agree with the idea

I really am amazed at that post

[Glenn]

Exactly my fear but to be honest any delegation, wether hand picked by the Venkys, or voted for by us, would probably become Venkys spokespersons after being treated to the type of corporate hopitality that is going to be in store for the chosen eleven. It's a cheap price to pay to get the admins. etc. of the largest group of supporters on side.

Thanks for valuing my integrity so highly.

I'm going out there with an open mind and I've managed to get through my day job by listening to and working with vendors rather that being seduced by meals out, track days and golf weekends, so why would I be any different with the football club I support?

[67splitscreen]

We're currently yet to be briefed on itinerary, what form of interaction may take place and the etiquette surrounding the disclosure of what we learn, but ultimately whether this is a genuine attempt to interact with the fans or a PR exercise (or a combination of the two) then surely they'd wanting is us to pass on what we've learnt. Telling people things in private, 9 at a time, in attempt get the them on side, would be a rather silly, expensive and time consuming way of winning the fan base over.

I'm aware that the itinerary has not been finalised., I'm aware of what has been outlined for the visit to date from the press release and also the input on here.ideal opportunity to have some input into what materials are used for the bridge building.

I also don't think the sarcasm was necessary, (that was the way it came across to me, apologies if not,) considering the context of your last sentence, 'silly' 'expensive' let me think, millions spent on advice that ultimately cost them their reputations with many fans, millions spent on compensation, and even more millions wasted on agents, how many fans would that have paid for to make the trip, then again it probably wouldn't have been necessary if they had listened to experienced Prelier league advice in the first place.

I'll ask again, will the fans representatives, on behalf of the broader fan base, ask for the meeting to be recorded?.

IMO it is important, the first real chance of any real interaction with the fans, their chance to speak directly to tha fans without some journo editing, or putting his spin on their quotes.

I feel without this, as you say it will just be seen as a PR exercise and in some eyes a poor one at that.

[thenodrog]

To be fair mum, Jisty hasn't got it wrong, the Telegraph has got it wrong. They have set your group up as representatives of the club’s supporters, which you aren't - and also as a group of disgruntled supporters - which you aren't. That will be tied in by some fans, [not on here because we know the difference], with the marchers - which you weren't. That's something that could work against you folks and something you might need to address.

Personally I think this whole trip is no big deal. Someone posted earlier, that the only thing that concerns the fans is team results. I doubt come mid season, that anyone on the terraces watching rovers will be considering what happened between the FF and Venky's.

I wouldn't have gone to Pune, I've got to say. You guys though have decided to do it, so just go and enjoy it. I don't begrudge you this at all.

Good post Den. Stand by now for accusations of sour grapes from Neil the Trot.

I realise everybody who goes is a fan and that is without any shadow of a doubt but you make a valid point that they do not / can not represent the supporters. Also and I do not know anyone's background if I was to send people to represent the supporters they would be professional and with relevent qualifications. The mechanics of the finance are more important and carry greater relevance than a simple managerial issue. I just hope we aren't wasting a one off chance.

Of concern (albeit lesser concern) also is the fact that members of this Mboards admin are on the trip. We hear time and again that neutrality is important to this mb and I've known SteB and Glenn for a decade or so and I imagine that the Venkeys and the staff at BRFC will see those two as being very influential and important to retain as allies.

There is just too much wrong with this initiative.

[yoda]

Al, on 22 September 2011 - 11:24 AM, said:Exactly my fear but to be honest any delegation, wether hand picked by the Venkys, or voted for by us, would probably become Venkys spokespersons after being treated to the type of corporate hopitality that is going to be in store for the chosen eleven. It's a cheap price to pay to get the admins. etc. of the largest group of supporters on side.

Thanks for valuing my integrity so highly.

I'm going out there with an open mind and I've managed to get through my day job by listening to and working with vendors rather that being seduced by meals out, track days and golf weekends, so why would I be any different with the football club I support?

They are obviously going to try and stage manage the trip, otherwise I may have received a reply to my email saying I would go out at my own expense some time ago.

The debate on here now seems to revolve around the have and have nots, never thought Theno might end up in the same camp as the champagne socialist,

just goes to show what the Venky brigade have done to the Rovers

[thenodrog]

I think it is extremely short sighted of some folk who would seemingly prefer a group of fans go over screaming at the owners and possibly risking cutting all ties in the future.

Tom that is not an alternative at all and I'm suprised that you deem it to be. Not being pointed here but in supporter terms you are employing Blackburn End thinking.

The real alternative is to send people capable of asking relevent and in depth questions to discuss the nuts and bolts of finance and discover the intent of the owners. Also to gain their trust cos after all I live in hope that we all want success and prosperity for the club. Sending someone to bawl at them that Kean is an imbecile is simply not on the agenda and of much less relevence.

Sorry if it might cause offence but we should be sending professionals not keen and well intentioned amateurs.

[Tom]

I think you may have got the wrong impression here Theno, do you think it's even the realms of possibility that even if we took all accountants and lawyers over then they would happily open the books for all to have a gander?

[thenodrog]

They are obviously going to try and stage manage the trip, otherwise I may have received a reply to my email saying I would go out at my own expense some time ago.

The debate on here now seems to revolve around the have and have nots, never thought Theno might end up in the same camp as the champagne socialist,just goes to show what the Venky brigade have done to the Rovers

Old Jim's alright on here Mike..... it's ICBINF where his limitations become clear. If he stayed off it his reputation would be greatly enhanced. Who knows some might even come to quite like the sad old git.

[thenodrog]

I think you may have got the wrong impression here Theno, do you think it's even the realms of possibility that even if we took all accountants and lawyers over then they would happily open the books for all to have a gander?

I believe there is enough info avaialble in the public domain not to need to peruse their paperwork. But if you say that is not the purpose of the trip then what do you hope to achieve? Could you give me 3 topics which you aim to discuss and for which you would like answers for?

If it's just a nice social jolly then you are simply providing propagande bullets for them to fire in the future and you all need to openly declare that this trip is precisely what it is and that you do not have a mandate to discuss the clubs immediate and long term future wellbeing before you even set foot on a plane.

[Wilsbowski]

The fact is we don't yet know the form of it, it may just be Venkys want to interact with the fans forum, find out what we do as a group and they will tell us a bit about and show us what they do and what they want from the club.

I think it is extremely short sighted of some folk who would seemingly prefer a group of fans go over screaming at the owners and possibly risking cutting all ties in the future.

If Venkys want to interact with the fans in any way possible I see it as a positve and a way forward.

Exactly, and surely the members of the FF are experienced in bringing up concerns in a reasonable manner due to their experience in doing so with the previous club officials before the takeover (and even the current regime based in England)?

It just seems like an extension of the Fans Forum to me, only now the owners live halfway across the world

Apologies if this isn't correct, all I really know about the FF is from the notes that I read on the website.

However I would suggest that you all take any old rovers shirts you have lying around with you and give them to the locals though. Every little counts