Pune trip

[ABBEY]

Quite simply, there is nothing that might come out of this meeting in Pune, that couldn't be achieved at a meeting in Blackburn.

Two/three people travelling to Blackburn (and return) v nine to Pune (and return) says it all. It's about having the discussion on "my turf".

It's the same as most people have been calling Kean for!!

[Ste B]

I think its important to clarify what will be happening on the trip. We've yet to get a detailed itinerary, but it will undoubtably be what has been written below.

The owners have kindly invited 9 of the Fans' Forum to travel to India to see the team in action, visit the Roverstars event and to learn more about them, their businesses and their home city.

There is likely to be an opportunity to engage informally with the owners and the visit should be seen as an important stage in increasing understanding and continuing to build the relationship.

I cannot guarantee that when I go there that I can ask anything. IMHO the importance is in building that relationship. I'll go there with an open mind, listen to what I'm shown and will make my own opinion. Once I'm back, I'll be happy to discuss what i've seen either on here / podcasts or whatever. I believe the club will be covering it for their media outlets (Programme / Website / Big Scree TV) After thats complete. I'll have plenty of my own video / photo coverage of the event to share, and i'll have no issues with other sites using that. (assuming credits given).

I'm tempted to make this the last i'll say publically on the subject here, as everything else will be going over old ground. Hopefully I will see Birdy and Co over there as well assuming they arent flying Emirates again.

[CAPT KAYOS]

I usually enjoy these blogs, but I've got to say this one was really... dull. Sorry Glen.

You're joking right?

That is one of the funniest things I have read for ages

[Glenn]

I'm aware that the itinerary has not been finalised., I'm aware of what has been outlined for the visit to date from the press release and also the input on here.ideal opportunity to have some input into what materials are used for the bridge building.

I also don't think the sarcasm was necessary, (that was the way it came across to me, apologies if not,) considering the context of your last sentence, 'silly' 'expensive' let me think, millions spent on advice that ultimately cost them their reputations with many fans, millions spent on compensation, and even more millions wasted on agents, how many fans would that have paid for to make the trip, then again it probably wouldn't have been necessary if they had listened to experienced Prelier league advice in the first place.

I'll ask again, will the fans representatives, on behalf of the broader fan base, ask for the meeting to be recorded?.

IMO it is important, the first real chance of any real interaction with the fans, their chance to speak directly to tha fans without some journo editing, or putting his spin on their quotes.

I feel without this, as you say it will just be seen as a PR exercise and in some eyes a poor one at that.

Sorry, it was intended more as flippant than sarcastic. My point is then I'm confident both the club and the owners expect us to come back with a more positive view and that we will attempt to convince others of that view. If their intention is just to impress 9 fans, but don't give the fans anything they can drumbeat about, then it's a very expensive exercise for very little gain. But as I said, I'm genuinely hoping I can come back as inspired and excited about the future as Simon Williams did after his visit, telling you tales of their plans and their passions, rather than just "the hotel was nice and we saw the equivalent of a pre-season game in a new country".

Also and I do not know anyone's background if I was to send people to represent the supporters they would be professional and with relevent qualifications. The mechanics of the finance are more important and carry greater relevance than a simple managerial issue. I just hope we aren't wasting a one off chance.

Of concern (albeit lesser concern) also is the fact that members of this Mboards admin are on the trip. We hear time and again that neutrality is important to this mb and I've known SteB and Glenn for a decade or so and I imagine that the Venkeys and the staff at BRFC will see those two as being very influential and important to retain as allies.

Without disclosing too much personal information (and wary that I'm being lead into a trap by answering this) whilst I don't know everyone on the FF's profession, I know those going include an accountant, at least two company directors and I think a retired former business owner. But I have to add, I don't think it's important and I strongly hope this isn't a one off chance, but the start of more regular interaction with the fans.

As for the second point. I don't think mine and Ste's involvement with BRFCS came into it (and if it did it probably worked against us). It was quite conceivable both Ste and I could have been not voted through, surely if there was an intention to target us as allies, we'd have received the direct invitation others have (not that I'd want that, at all).

Quite simply, there is nothing that might come out of this meeting in Pune, that couldn't be achieved at a meeting in Blackburn.

Two/three people travelling to Blackburn (and return) v nine to Pune (and return) says it all. It's about having the discussion on "my turf".

Whilst I think that's a very valid point. I don't think it's right to miss the opportunity (regardless of location, or perceived "Jolly" factor). If they'd have suggested the same thing in the car park of Villa Park, it would still make sense to have held it at Ewood, but I'd still have gone.

In fairness until the facts/itinerary are confirmed there's an awful lot of friendly fire going on here.

Yup. It's really awkward for us to answer questions at the moment, as we genuinely don't know much more than you guys. There is a briefing session planned though.

As for the Pune 9 (insert a Gav reference here),should they be refered to as the inglorious b'stards?

I've been called far worse recently.

Personally I don't think keeping it quiet has been helpful as people automatically become suspicious of anything that appears to being done on a strictly need to know basis.

The other mistake, and this I think is by far the biggest issue, is the fact that in trying to keep the Fans Forum trip secret the club have also delayed the announcement of the game in Pune. We all know that there are a group of fans who haven't missed a game anywhere in the world for the best part of 30 years and yet they have been kept in the dark about the forthcoming game in Pune. The official announcement on Monday, and I suspect it may well have been delayed until later but for it appearing in a national newspaper, has left them with very little time to make the necessary travelling arrangements. These aren't fans looking for a free trip, these are guys who pay their own way and would willingly pay to travel to Pune to watch the Rovers. If they were to end up missing out on this game because of the paranoia surrounding the Forum trip, then the whole thing becomes yet another PR own goal - but then again I suspect the last thing that anybody thought about was the fans who might want to travel to India under their own steam to watch their team.

I believe much of the problem here is so little was confirmed until the last few days. We all had to take a chance on paying for Visas/Medical Precautions/UK Travel etc long before it was officially confirmed. The dates changed several days times as did our travel arrangements. I don't think the trip had even been officially confirmed to us at the time the Mirror published it's story. Now we knew the score, it was a risk we were willing to take. But imagine if the club had done an official announcement only for the times/dates/location etc of the game to change, or the game not to happen at all and people had already made arrangements.

A question please which I feel is crucial for the Pune 9 to ask. It is not controversial and has a simple "yes / no" answer. I've said this before and received no response and will be like a dog with a bone on it until we find out.

In the past Blackburn Rovers official, audited accounts have been in the public domain, via Companies House, for any supporter to access and read.

Following the change of ownership will we continue to see published accounts or is the club now a part of a much wider accounting set up that we, the fans, will not be able to access?

Much has been written and said about the Venky's "investment" in BRFC. It is my personal belief that other than making the purchase no increased investment or finance has been made available to the club. Several people who I respect tell me the Raos have stated real investment has been made. Until I see the accounts and can read the club's financial situation for myself I will remain unconvinced.

There is no reason why the question shouldn't be asked. The answer will be interesting. Only four / five months to go till we usually see published accounts

I think people are skirting the whole "will you ask" thing as we genuinely don't know. It would be unfair to say "I'll raise this issue" when we don't know what format any interaction will take. FF meetings are structured, with pre-planned agendas and even then it can be tough to get through all the issues people want and we've NO idea how it'll work in India, so agreeing to raise certain issues at his stage would be irresponsible.

[Parsonblue]

I believe much of the problem here is so little was confirmed until the last few days. We all had to take a chance on paying for Visas/Medical Precautions/UK Travel etc long before it was officially confirmed. The dates changed several days times as did our travel arrangements. I don't think the trip had even been officially confirmed to us at the time the Mirror published it's story. Now we knew the score, it was a risk we were willing to take. But imagine if the club had done an official announcement only for the times/dates/location etc of the game to change, or the game not to happen at all and people had already made arrangements.

I totally accept that Glenn but at the same time I think if the club had said that there may be a game on a particular date it would have given people the opportunity to risk it or not. At that point the responsibility passes from the club to the individual and as you say you were happy to take the risk. I suspect others would have said no but I feel one or two folk who we both know would have said it's a risk worth taking. Hopefully, those who want to go will have been able to arrange something so that it is not an issue.

I think you're absolutely right to go with an open mind and not a list of questions. This trip is surely about building bridges with the owners in such a way that will benefit all supporters and the club in the long run.

[JAL]

Birdie and three others are travelling independently to India for the game.

Cant say i'm impressed IF, Birdie is paying his own way out their, and the fans forum people are going on a freebie.

The big difference with Birdie to any other supporter off the fans forum, for years now, Birdie has almost single handidly organised hundreds if not thousands of Rovers fans to go to away games.

So alone, Birdie should have more voice about Rovers issues than any other Rovers fan out there.

[darwenblueswearehere]

Cant say i'm impressed IF, Birdie is paying his own way out their, and the fans forum people are going on a freebie.

The big difference with Birdie to any other supporter off the fans forum, for years now, Birdie has almost single handidly organised hundreds if not thousands of Rovers fans to go to away games.

So alone, Birdie should have more voice about Rovers issues than any other Rovers fan out there.

If Venky's want to build bridges with the fans, giving arguably the best known Rovers fan an invitation would have been an excellent starting point. There isn't a single person I'm sure who wouldn't have begrudged Birdie a 'jolly', leaving aside any other issues about him representing us or voicing our concerns.

[Mercer]

Hope the Pune 9 enjoy the trip.

However, surely, as some have pointed out, is it beyond the wit of those who manage our club, to have arranged a series of Q & A's at Ewood over a period of time with one or more of the Raos ? This would have enabled a wider audience and, IMO, would have been less controlled and stage managed and therefore, more likely to flush out the real issues and concerns.

When lifelong supporters who really do bleed blue blood and have spent enormous time and money following Rovers around the world, such as Birdie, are not involved, then you really do have to challenge the merits of this trip.

[yoda]

If Venky's want to build bridges with the fans, giving arguably the best known Rovers fan an invitation would have been an excellent starting point. There isn't a single person I'm sure who wouldn't have begrudged Birdie a 'jolly', leaving aside any other issues about him representing us or voicing our concerns.

The 11 invities should make sure Birdie is included in the sessions, if just to make the point about loyalty and history.

[thenodrog]

So Gordon aka Thenodrog has known SteB and Glenn for at least a decade...an obvious conclusion can be drawn from that statement.

To be completely accurate I met Steb, Glenn and amongst others ES one night after they'd been to a fans forum do about 10 years ago. I've had a few emails since but we are hardly busom buddies.

So whats your point Donald?

[thenodrog]

As for the second point. I don't think mine and Ste's involvement with BRFCS came into it (and if it did it probably worked against us). It was quite conceivable both Ste and I could have been not voted through, surely if there was an intention to target us as allies, we'd have received the direct invitation others have (not that I'd want that, at all).

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

Just as an aside even Cryer is calling it a Venkeys PR exercise.

[sentient]

Just when you think things can't get more surreal (YO! we're going to eebeetsa!!) ...

I suppose this whole thing hinges on the motives of the wengerboys. If they genuinely want to understand BRFC supporters, their culture and attitudes then there isn't much wrong, but if its something else then who knows where it can lead.

As for the Chosen9^TM I have no reason to doubt the integrity of any - I don't know them but I am sure they all do have the best interests of BRFC at heart. The problem is that in this case, unlike all the management mumbo-jumbo speak, perception actally is reality! And it's obvious that many people are very suspicious of wengerboys' motives and so they begin to question the acceptance of the invitees. Indeed people start to wonder about the neutrality of brfcs.com admin but I'm sure 90% of the time that's not true.

By the way it is reassuring to note that no-one has accused any of the Chosen9^TM of anything other than arrogance or one-eyed opionated drivel. But hey that's just any given day on brfcs.com! What I am surprised about is that the Chosen9^TM appear to be naive about the potential consequences - whatever your own personal intention, as soon as you accept that invite and get on the iron-bird you become somebody else's poodle. The person with the leash may be the wengerboys, the press, or the brfcs.com rabble-rousers but the outcome is still the same - you lose control! I honestly hope it all works out well.

And just one more thing - an easy win for the wengerboys ... sort Birdy+1 out with flights, accommodation etc. You would get more kudos from that that the rest of this episode put together.

[imy9]

Just when you think things can't get more surreal (YO! we're going to eebeetsa!!) ...

I suppose this whole thing hinges on the motives of the wengerboys. If they genuinely want to understand BRFC supporters, their culture and attitudes then there isn't much wrong, but if its something else then who knows where it can lead.

As for the Chosen9^TM I have no reason to doubt the integrity of any - I don't know them but I am sure they all do have the best interests of BRFC at heart. The problem is that in this case, unlike all the management mumbo-jumbo speak, perception actally is reality! And it's obvious that many people are very suspicious of wengerboys' motives and so they begin to question the acceptance of the invitees. Indeed people start to wonder about the neutrality of brfcs.com admin but I'm sure 90% of the time that's not true.

By the way it is reassuring to note that no-one has accused any of the Chosen9^TM of anything other than arrogance or one-eyed opionated drivel. But hey that's just any given day on brfcs.com! What I am surprised about is that the Chosen9^TM appear to be naive about the potential consequences - whatever your own personal intention, as soon as you accept that invite and get on the iron-bird you become somebody else's poodle. The person with the leash may be the wengerboys, the press, or the brfcs.com rabble-rousers but the outcome is still the same - you lose control! I honestly hope it all works out well.

And just one more thing - an easy win for the wengerboys ... sort Birdy+1 out with flights, accommodation etc. You would get more kudos from that that the rest of this episode put together.

???

I have read at least a couple of posters insinuating that the integrity of the Pune 9 is in question, which is pathetic and reprehensible.

Why would Venky's want some of the posters on here to go to Pune? I would hazard a guess that they felt that people on the FF had the intelligence to listen to what Venkys had to say as opposed to shouting insults at them.

[BuckyRover]

Amen to that.

If you are inviting people into your castle, you need to be careful about the types of people that you invite. Aptly demonstrated over these last few days on this messageboard.

[imy9]

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

Just as an aside even Cryer is calling it a Venkeys PR exercise.

"The offer to fly nine fans over to India to meet them next month has to be applauded, although whether the event turns into anything other than a PR stunt remains to be seen."

[thenodrog]

"The offer to fly nine fans over to India to meet them next month has to be applauded, although whether the event turns into anything other than a PR stunt remains to be seen."

Why have you highlighted that imy? Serves no purpose. As I said Cryer is calling it a Venkie PR stunt.

[imy9]

Why have you highlighted that imy? Serves no purpose. As I said Cryer is calling it a Venkie PR stunt.

When they come back we'll see if the visit leads to something other than 9 fans going to Pune to visit the owners, Cryer has said pretty much that at the end has he not? Thats why I have highlighted it.

[PAFELL]

God love you PAFELL, but I find your stance on this thread rather odd.

You wanted new owners up to last week, we win one match and you have had a road to Damascus conversion and are getting on the back if anyone who is criticising the owners latest bit of PR.

I think you will find my stance is for a new manager. I also have no confidence in the owners. There are many reasons to be critical of venkys. But imo this pune trip is not one of them - maybe the only reason.

It could be a Pr stunt, but until those invited go and return, we wait and see what they say.

[jim mk2]

It's fairly obvious the owners have hand-selected some FF members because they are less likely to ask hard questions. Anyone used to discussing the amount of salt in the half-time burgers or the litter in the Ewood car park isn't going to question boardroom policy. The shame is the Pune9 have a unique opportunity to discover the truth about our secretive owners - and doing so might involve asking them tough questions which might upset them. Apart from the less cerebral members in the previous few posts, no one has anyone suggested "shouting insults" but are the Pune9 prepared to stick their neck out, take some risks and get to the heart of what makes Venky's tick ?

[Glenn]

It's fairly obvious the owners have hand-selected some FF members because they are less likely to ask hard questions.

Do try and keep up. They invited the FF to chose 9 of their members themselves (which was done by a vote, which was overseen and counted by three members not on the list of candidates), they had to chance no "hand-select" them. I dare say if you were to try and hand select the nine most passive members, you'd have got a very different list. Many of you will know Martin, the chairman of the FF, he can be described in many ways, but unwilling to vocalise what's on his mind isn't one of them.

[PAFELL]

It's fairly obvious the owners have hand-selected some FF members because they are less likely to ask hard questions. Anyone used to discussing the amount of salt in the half-time burgers or the litter in the Ewood car park isn't going to question boardroom policy. The shame is the Pune9 have a unique opportunity to discover the truth about our secretive owners - and doing so might involve asking them tough questions which might upset them. Apart from the less cerebral members in the previous few posts, no one has anyone suggested "shouting insults" but are the Pune9 prepared to stick their neck out, take some risks and get to the heart of what makes Venky's tick ?

I suggest that first of all we do not know where or if this is going to lead to anything.

But venkys have 'started' something that neither the trust did, nor any other club owner has done. Arranged a meeting with supporters.

so they came up with the idea, that whilst the team are out in India, it would be good if some Rovers supporters could come over as well.

So where do they start in chosing who comes and who does not. Therefore why not start with a group of supporters who the club have got to know through the forum. How else could they have chosen people - where or how could they have started the invite process. Who to invite from 20,000 supporters or whatever the number is. Not forgetting that Rovers were meant to have gone to India in the close season, but it was cancelled, due to concerns over bombs etc. So a trip has been quickly arranged.

I do not envy at all the 9 or so going. I have read the posts about immodium, malaria jabs etc. I would rather have a travelling bombshelter.

[imy9]

Venk'ys claim that they are meeting "disgruntled" fans is laughable. The majority of those going wouldn't say boo to a goose while some are actually supportive of the new regime so I doubt they are going to give the owners the rough ride they deserve. The trip should be seen for what it is - a jolly for a selected few non-dissidents, another elaborate PR exercise on the part of the owners, and a sham.

It's fairly obvious the owners have hand-selected some FF members because they are less likely to ask hard questions. Anyone used to discussing the amount of salt in the half-time burgers or the litter in the Ewood car park isn't going to question boardroom policy. The shame is the Pune9 have a unique opportunity to discover the truth about our secretive owners - and doing so might involve asking them tough questions which might upset them. Apart from the less cerebral members in the previous few posts, no one has anyone suggested "shouting insults" but are the Pune9 prepared to stick their neck out, take some risks and get to the heart of what makes Venky's tick ?

Glen: "I know those going include an accountant, at least two company directors and I think a retired former business owner."

People with savvy Jim. People who IF told information about accounts or banking issues or what Venkys plans are for the future would have an idea about what is going on.

The decision to do this was made MONTHS ago, lets see what happens next.

Personally I would have sent you mate, as I sense that when you come back you will be praising the good work of Venkys and their plans, if anyone knows how to do a good U-turn it is your good self.

[SouthAussieRover]

To be completely accurate I met Steb, Glenn and amongst others ES one night after they'd been to a fans forum do about 10 years ago. I've had a few emails since but we are hardly busom buddies.

So whats your point Donald?

Thankyou Gordon.I know ive got under your skin when you refer to me as Donald.

Thankyou for your clarification.

[yoda]

Glen: "I know those going include an accountant, at least two company directors and I think a retired former business owner."

People with savvy Jim. People who IF told information about accounts or banking issues or what Venkys plans are for the future would have an idea about what is going on.

The decision to do this was made MONTHS ago, lets see what happens next.

Personally I would have sent you mate, as I sense that when you come back you will be praising the good work of Venkys and their plans, if anyone knows how to do a good U-turn it is your good self.

Ah jim turn on a sixpence mk2,

in jim's utopia at leat half of the nine would not exist, everybody being equal and all that, so no need for accountants, no company directors and former business owners as all would be state concerns

[sentient]

By the way it is reassuring to note that no-one has accused any of the Chosen9^TM of anything other than arrogance or one-eyed opionated drivel.

lol serious typo there! sorry for the less cerebral quote! numpty eh!