Pune trip

[roversmum]

Unfortunately,some on here are now so cynical that their fallback position is to query and discredit every idea which comes up.

I don't want 9 of those giving it large in Pune claiming to speak for all of us.

Of the people who've 'outed' themselves so far I'm pretty much happy with them representing us all rather than some of the complete tools on here.

Word certainly seem to fall on deaf ears. You put a decent case forward and the reply is just as if you hadn't bothered in the first place.

[SouthAussieRover]

I'm 58. At what age does weary cynicism set in?

I can't say for sure. Though there's probably a remission period if you are part of the Pune trip

[Al]

I think something people need to consider that this is the first time the owners have met with the fans as any sort of body, we have to build a relationship with them and want them to come forward more.

If we go over there shouting and screaming I feel they wouldn't want to discuss anything further in the future.

OK That answers my question. It's a pleasant chat over tea and cakes and a jolly for the selected few.

[DaveyB]

I'm not sure what the forum's role is, as they are not representative of the fans, due to not being voted in by the fans if that makes sense.

I've read this view a few times on here now, that the FF are not representitive of the fans etc. I'd just like to point out that in the last couple of weeks I've opened up newspapers to find an open letter on behalf of the 'fans', and then to see that Blackburn 'fans' had organised a protest march against the manager.

Now maybe I missed the meeting, but I don't recall any vote to have the people who organised either of those things as official representatives for the fans, and certainly neither were an accurate representation on my views.

In my opinion, and I've never met any of the people who have said that they are going, if you get 9 people then, in all likelyhood, you will get something of a cross-section of views as it's unlikely that all 9 will have exactly the same views on everything - and if anyone is going to represent us it may as well be people that have demonstrated a willingness to get involved and try and change things constructively and in the right manner.

[Tom]

OK That answers my question. It's a pleasant chat over tea and cakes and a jolly for the selected few.

We have no itenerary as of yet so we don't know what form any meeting will have.

[K-Hod]

OK That answers my question. It's a pleasant chat over tea and cakes and a jolly for the selected few.

What is it you were expecting? A lynch mob armed with burning torches?

Be thankful they've agreed to speak to the fans at all to be honest. This COULD be a sign of them turning the corner....

[AndyNeil]

OK That answers my question. It's a pleasant chat over tea and cakes and a jolly for the selected few.

I would suggest that is what you want to the answer to be, so you can continue to pour cold water on a process that in time should help Venkys and the fans understand each other better.

This MB is full of people who are blinkered in their view and no amount of reasoned debate will change their mind.

[John]

Sounds like it will be a fascinating experience meeting with the owners in person and being able to have a face to face discussion with them.

Enjoy chaps.

[T4E]

Why don't you attempt to convince him otherwise and see if it works?

[perthblue02]

So they are only going to speak to 9 people, and there will be three/four of them , easy solution the 9 from Blackburn go down to brockhall IT room, the 3/4 from Venkys go to their board room, = video conference - saves the club / owners money, no insinuations of buying favour and its the green alternative 9 peoples less air miles. Surely Venkys have video conferencing running a worldwide business.

Not trying to be funny but this whole thing (not just the BRFC trust trip, but Keans visit's etc) of dragging people over to India really does smack of holding court at the Kings castle in the 18th century.

[BRFC95]

Cynicism is not really something to aspire to though is it.

It comes with wisdom which in turn comes with age. When you mature you'll find out.

[Blue n White Rover]

So they are only going to speak to 9 people, and there will be three/four of them , easy solution the 9 from Blackburn go down to brockhall IT room, the 3/4 from Venkys go to their board room, = video conference - saves the club / owners money, no insinuations of buying favour and its the green alternative 9 peoples less air miles. Surely Venkys have video conferencing running a worldwide business

I'm sure they do, but as Steve Kean also said in his interview with BRFCS, it is better to have a meeting face to face as you get to interact with the Owners.

It is a fantastic opportunity for these fans and I hope they enjoy, and more importantly get our views across to them and vice versa.

[AndyNeil]

Why don't you attempt to convince him otherwise and see if it works?

The phrase "banging my head against a brick wall" springs to mind.

[Al]

What is it you were expecting? A lynch mob armed with burning torches?

Be thankful they've agreed to speak to the fans at all to be honest. This COULD be a sign of them turning the corner....

No but I did expect them to ask the questions that the fans want answers to such as in my earlier post.

It's the 'safe' selection of fans that are known to the club through the FF that I have a problem with. I note that nobody has commented on my post on page 6.

I repeat. I have nothing personally against any of the participants. It's just the elitist way that they have been chosen.

[Tris]

I'm very much in favour of discussion with the fans but this freebie trip seems to me very much like a bribe, particularly the elitist selection of the participants.

Is there anyone going on the trip who is going to express my views, and many others, on the suitability of the manager or why after the sale of £26mil of players we were not able to spend a similar amount on signings, particularly in view of the reduction in wages? Or is it going to be a pleasant chat over tea and cakes.

Sorry if I sound negative. I don't mean to be, but I would like to be sure that my views are represented as well as the pleasantries.

Also I have nothing against any of the people who have declared themselves to be going personally. Just the secretive way they were selected from amongst 'safe' fans already known by the club from discussions in the FF. No risks with anybody like Abbey who could be guaranteed not to keep his mouth shut.

Please represent my views, and those of many others as well as your own.

I have to disagree with some of your points Al.

Firstly "elitist selection of the participants". The fans forum is open to anyone and has representatives from (for example) the Disabled Supporters Association, the South Lancashire branch, people who are retired, people from all sorts of different employment - white collar, blue collar (if such things still exist), education, self-employed ... massive age range and variety of opinions on matters to do with the club.

For me, elitist selection would be to say ok, we'll only open this opportunity up to corporate sponsors, or box holders, or people with Season Tickets in JW Central Upper area. It would even be discriminatory (although not elitist) to for example select people from one supporters website, or one supporters branch, or who drink in the Acqueduct rather than the Brown Cow. From a practical viewpoint, how and where do you draw the line, or even start to pick 9 from 15,000?

Secondly, "secretive way they were selected". I take it that's a reference to O2Gs initial post in which he said there was a secret ballot to decide which FF members would go - from those that wanted to. That was already having requested to see if there was an opportunity for all 13 who wanted to go, to be accommodated. Surely that's the most democratic way to have tackled that particular problem?

There are people going on the trip who share your concerns expressed above, and to a greater or lesser extent all the concerns that get expressed on this MB. And given the right opportunity would like to raise those concerns on this trip in an appropriate manner. This is a first step IMO, and one which must be used to help move along the journey to a much better and more open relationship between fans and owners. You have to start somewhere.

I can understand peoples perceptions being different, and to be honest we all expected there to be a negative response when the trip was announced. We're all thick skinned and will take that on the chin and get on with doing what we think is the right thing.

[BRFC95]

I'm 58. At what age does weary cynicism set in?

You must be full of the wrong hormones

[Mattyblue]

I can assure you all that the owners are very keen to listen to input from the fans.

However, it has to be done in a reasoned, polite and dignified manner. Remember, these people are ready and willing (and already have) put a great deal of money into the club.

It's going to take a very long time before some fans accept them. They have to start somewhere.

Have they put a load of money into the club?

That is exactly the kind of question that should be asked. Of course, it is a publicity stunt, the normal thing to do would be to organise a meeting when they are next in the UK.

However, as long as SOME tough questions are asked, then fair enough.

I just hope it doesn't just end up being 'listen, they invited us to their home, gave us fanstastic hospitality, we had no right to put them on the spot or shout our mouths off',

Nobody expects you to forget your manners, but if you arent on a mission to get answers for the fans, who's views are the Fans Forum representing?

[BuckyRover]

How is it elitist?

Because they could be bothered joining the fans forum?

[Tom]

No but I did expect them to ask the questions that the fans want answers to such as in my earlier post.

It's the 'safe' selection of fans that are known to the club through the FF that I have a problem with. I note that nobody has commented on my post on page 6.

I repeat. I have nothing personally against any of the participants. It's just the elitist way that they have been chosen.

There is nothing elitist about it, the members of the fans forum are fans of Blackburn Rovers, nothing more nothing less, we have all applied to be on the forum (as any season ticket holder is able to do) to try and help sort some issues relevent to fans. We do however have an official link to the club and as such was seen as a logical choice for the owners to converse with.

[Al]

The phrase "banging my head against a brick wall" springs to mind.

You havn't tried. Come on then. What questions are you going to ask other than 'Is this Earl Grey or Darjeeling?'

[den]

Unfortunately,some on here are now so cynical that their fallback position is to query and discredit every idea which comes up.

I don't want 9 of those giving it large in Pune claiming to speak for all of us.

Of the people who've 'outed' themselves so far I'm pretty much happy with them representing us all rather than some of the complete tools on here.

Ah, another very good, well reasoned post Yeti.

"some on here". "complete tools". Whatever you want.

I know some of the people who are going on this trip and to a man they are all very nice people. I can say that in honesty. I hope they go out there and have a great time. I've worked in South East India which is possibly the poorest part. If Pune is anything like that, then it's going to open their eyes [assuming of course, that they haven't been before]. I thought I knew what culture shock is, but I really didn't. India is a marvellous country. It hasn't, for the most part changed in the last two hundred years. They will see things I'm sure, that they will never forget. I wish them all the best of luck and hope they enjoy themselves.

As for the reason for the trip, well I just ask two things of them. I hope they don't think that they are representative of anyone other than themselves, because they aren't. They aren't elected, so they aren't representative. I'm sure they know that anyway. The second thing is that they make the best use of their time there. Of course they can be civil and polite, while at the same time asking some hard questions and giving them some hard facts about how the general fan sees their tenure so far. It wont be easy to take Venky's generous offer of this pre-paid trip, while at the same time telling them exactly what's what. I don't envy them with that one, because I wouldn't like to do it.

So just go over there, enjoy and try to stay well.

[BRFC95]

How is it elitist?

Because they could be bothered joining the fans forum?

'Bothered' or 'have the time'

Plenty people just haven't the time

[tonyoz]

I'm not expecting a forensic interrogation of the Venkys. The Venkys have invited a number of fans to meet them and so I expect they will get to know each other. What's the matter with that? That's the point of the exercise I think.

They will no doubt talk about the Rovers at length - it's likely that the questions will be of the polite but to the point Kamy type rather than the cynicism fuelled Jeremy Paxman type. That doesn't make it any the less valuable in my eyes.

[Kamy100]

Having talked to Venky's PR on many many occassions over the last few months I can say that there is a huge effort being made to try and actively engage with the fans.

While there is no on the record acceptance that they have made mistakes, privately they realised months ago that they needed to start to put things right. While things aren't perfect, they are much much better. People who work at Ewood are now happy, some of the staff have been out to India and comeback very impressed. The three owners all have different personalities/interests so have different things that they want to achieve with Rovers, when you put that together then their vision for the club could work. Hopefully the next step is that they comeout and talk directly to the fans in a on the record manner.

So fans going out to India is a fantastic opportunity for both sides, the people going out will get to see a bit of India and spend sometime with the owners and start to build a relationship with them, hopefully over time that relationship can bloosm and issues can be fed back to the owners via the fans forum. For the owners, this will be an opportunity to meet a group of Rovers fans, who they are, what they do or how they got onto the trip is largely irrlevenat as at the end of the day WE ARE ALL ROVERS FANS.

I have told Venky's on a few occassions that the relationship with a large proportion of fans has been damaged and it is not something that can be put right overnight, they are going to have to show that they have learnt from the mistakes that they have made and re-build their relationship with the fans. Meeting a group of fans is the first step in that process.

[Al]

There is nothing elitist about it, the members of the fans forum are fans of Blackburn Rovers, nothing more nothing less, we have all applied to be on the forum (as any season ticket holder is able to do) to try and help sort some issues relevent to fans. We do however have an official link to the club and as such was seen as a logical choice for the owners to converse with.

Of course it's elitist. Only fans known to the club through the FF have been chosen. The rank and file season ticket holders had no say. It was even being kept secret from them until a newspaper got hold of it.Is it a coincidence that several of the chosen few are mods on here?

It's a jolly for the FF to keep them on side.

Edit.

Thank you Tris for taking the time and trouble for answering my post properly. I am gratified that there are fans who represent my views going on this trip. You reply is in contrast to Fernhurst Rover who can't be bothered to make a proper reply. Anyone who has that attitude has no right to represent me or anybody else at a meeting and does not deserve to be present on the trip.