Pune trip

[LeChuck]

I think something people need to consider that this is the first time the owners have met with the fans as any sort of body, we have to build a relationship with them and want them to come forward more.

If we go over there shouting and screaming I feel they wouldn't want to discuss anything further in the future.

With the wonderful opportunity comes a big responsibility though. It'll serve no purpose at all if everyone is wooed by the hospitality.

A fortunate win doesn't hide the fact that we're not far from a club in crisis, and still one of the favourites to be relegated. When they arrived 10 months ago we were a solid mid-table team, with proven staff in all departments of the club. I don't doubt Venky's will present their ideas for the future and that they'll probably sound amazing.

The worst thing that could happen though is that the 9 return without answers to the things that have already happened, and could still see this season turn into a disaster. The Pune academy and the signing of younger players all sounds fantastic, but we're a bit like a rudderless ship at times - both on and off the field. Many questions need to be resolved.

Why was everyone with PL experience in their role ditched?

Where did all the transfer money go?

Are they putting their own money in or is it all borrowed against the club's name?

Just how much influence does Jerome Anderson have?

Can they clarify the Rochina payment? How many money has Anderson taken from the club?

Was it a coincidence that both our manager and his assistant were Kentaro clients?

At what point does Kean's points-per-game record make his position untenable?

Have they considered perhaps altering his role and bringing in someone more proven?

There are probably loads more too.

It's a great opportunity for those going and I'm genuinely pleased for them, in fact almost excited on their behalf. Just remember that it carries responsibility, it will need bravery to ask the questions but they need asking.

[AndyNeil]

You havn't tried. Come on then. What questions are you going to ask other than 'Is this Earl Grey or Darjeeling?'

You are correct, I haven't tried and to be quite frank I'm not going to waste my time either. As for the questions I'll be asking (if/when I get the opportunity), there won't be anything as searching as that...

[roversmum]

What is it you were expecting? A lynch mob armed with burning torches?

Be thankful they've agreed to speak to the fans at all to be honest. This COULD be a sign of them turning the corner....

Exactly.

They've bought a football club and are doing all they can to learn how to run it. They were badly advised at the start but are getting there. Whose advice would folks rather have? After all, fans know it all, don't they?

[Ozz]

Let PhilipL go and sort em out.

[BRFC95]

Why didn't the 'fans forum' say -'No thanks, we'd prefer you used the money to fix the leaking roofs around Ewood but when you are next in town we'd like you to host a meeting with all forum members'

Don't forget to wag your tails as soon as you get off the plane

[John]

With the wonderful opportunity comes a big responsibility though. It'll serve no purpose at all if everyone is wooed by the hospitality.

A fortunate win doesn't hide the fact that we're not far from a club in crisis, and still one of the favourites to be relegated. When they arrived 10 months ago we were a solid mid-table team, with proven staff in all departments of the club. I don't doubt Venky's will present their ideas for the future and that they'll probably sound amazing.

The worst thing that could happen though is that the 9 return without answers to the things that have already happened, and could still see this season turn into a disaster. The Pune academy and the signing of younger players all sounds fantastic, but we're a bit like a rudderless ship at times - both on and off the field. Many questions need to be resolved.

Why was everyone with PL experience in their role ditched?

Where did all the transfer money go?

Are they putting their own money in or is it all borrowed against the club's name?

Just how much influence does Jerome Anderson have?

Can they clarify the Rochina payment? How many money has Anderson taken from the club?

Was it a coincidence that both our manager and his assistant were Kentaro clients?

At what point does Kean's points-per-game record make his position untenable?

Have they considered perhaps altering his role and bringing in someone more proven?

There are probably loads more too.

It's a great opportunity for those going and I'm genuinely pleased for them, in fact almost excited on their behalf. Just remember that it carries responsibility, it will need bravery to ask the questions but they need asking.

True, there are still a number of key questions which we should try and seek detailed answers to (some are raised above however in reality probably can't ask some of them).

Without selling our best player in Phil Jones, would there have been any money available this summer for transfers? (given the cash flow problems).

Why couldn't we attract a sponsor and whatever happened to these income generating marketing plans?

Sure some of us would be interested in viewing a transparent copy of our financial accounts too, doubt financially we are are looking too good at the moment, wage bill must still be high against turnover (I am making accurate presumptions here hence the request to view the accounts) - what plans are in place to deal with this?

etc etc!

[BuckyRover]

Why didn't the 'fans forum' say -'No thanks, we'd prefer you used the money to fix the leaking roofs around Ewood but when you are next in town we'd like you to host a meeting with all forum members'

Don't forget to wag your tails as soon as you get off the plane

My god.

Bitter AND twisted?

[Pugg]

I noticed someone mentioned earlier, that there is a selection of fans going, some pro-kean/venkys and some not so much. Is there anyone going who is anti-kean/venkys? I only say this as I think there sound be a balance, as there are plenty of fans who are anti-kean/venkys.

Roversmum, I completely agree that anything said should be done in a reasoned, polite and dignified manner. I just hope that a wide range of things get said if the opportunity arises.

I also agree that it is a nice gesture and like Tom said, we should be building bridges between them and the fans, but no one is suggesting going in there shouting and screaming, but just mention some of the concerns that are raised on here for example. I think the owners would respect any fan that makes the trip to India, is polite and respectful while at the same time expressing a wide range of opinions in a well mannered way.

I personally don't think Kean should be manager of Blackburn Rovers, mainly because I think his teams are disorganised. I am however 'pro-venkys' as I think the mistakes they have made are through naivity and not malice. I would like my opinion heard.

Good luck to everyone going.

Edit: I find it quite unsettling that some people are suggesting that by saying 'I hope difficult questions get asked' would be shouting or screaming or must want a lynch mob going in there. I also find it unsettling that people are suggesting that it'll be tea and cakes and an elitist group. Is it really that difficult to just discuss this without making assumptions?

[bellamy11]

Of course it's elitist. Only fans known to the club through the FF have been chosen. The rank and file season ticket holders had no say. It was even being kept secret from them until a newspaper got hold of it.Is it a coincidence that several of the chosen few are mods on here?

It's a jolly for the FF to keep them on side.

Tris has provided you with a very reasonable explanation if you'd like to respond to that?

[tonyoz]

Of course it's elitist. Only fans known to the club through the FF have been chosen. The rank and file season ticket holders had no say.

Surely they chose from the fans who have already made an effort to improve club-fan relationships? The fans who bothered to turn up to what sound like pretty boring meetings?

Apparently membership of this laudable group is open to all ST holders who can be arsed?

[3rdpillar]

"I can say that there is a huge effort being made to try and actively engage with the fans. "

B0LL0CK5

[TimmyJimmy]

You have some valid points TJ, which hopefully will be discussed. Even so, whatever communications are planned with the fans at Ewood, only limited numbers would be able to attend - you can't have a discussion with several thousand fans at once for example. Therefore there are always those who will be disappointed and might feel they should be included. The Fans Forum are people known to Management and therefore the obvious first choice to look at for such a trip.

Mr Roversmum is a member of the Fans Forum, and he is included on the trip, together with myself. However, we are not part of the nine. It came about as we met Balaji in Hong Kong at the Asia Trophy and had some discussion with him. He issued an invitation to us. He is very passionate about Rovers and the way forward.

RoversMum don't get me wrong, I'm not some rabid reactionary who automatically disapproves of any new initiative. To the contrary now that you and the others have been invited I applaud such collective zeal and passion for the cause that would make you embark on such a venture. I have no problem with what you are doing, I hope the trip goes very well and you find it productive.

My issue is not with the invitees but with the invitor. Venkys might make 9 people (+2) very happy and give them a nice warm feeling inside that the club is on the right track. But how's this different from the current factions on this board. One group says everything stinks and the other says everything is rosy. We'll just have 9 + 2 people moving into or out of a particular camp.

If Venkys or their PR want to get to the nub of problem there are better and more productive ways they could tackle this. If a meet and greet is their 'thing' then they could have done it in the Blackburn/Darwen/Bolton area.

Speaking for myself (and I don't know how many others share this view) I couldn't feel worse about the club if they had committed deliberate treachery. The promises they made up front have been broken. And let's get real :

- How many would have expected them to sack Sam, Williams, Finn et al when we were promised either no or slow gradual change?

- How many would have expected them to wait until the end of the season to appoint a new manager if they absolutely had to sack Sam?

- How many would have expected our overdraft to be paid off when that was ostensibly part of the deal.

- Who would have expected them to take out a further facility to bankroll the club?

- Who would have expected them to reinvest at least the P Jones money in the close season.

- Who expected an additional 5 million for transfers that never happened.

- Who expected Kean to be put in charge ably supported by an assistant that would 'make the football world sit up and take notice'?

It's a litany of actions that either they made and broke, or expectations that they did nothing to manage or control. Either/or we have been raised to a great height and dropped.

I'm less interested in the next batch of promises and more interested in discovering what on earth they thought they were doing and in light of that why on earth are they all so suprised that we are upset. As I said in another post that if Kean was disappointed with the protest then I'm dissapointed that he's disappointed because that shows that he/they just don't get it. They're nodding in all the right places but no one is listening.

This is just my take on matters and there will 20,000 other views and takes on that which they need to be aware of and explain.

An Academy in Pune - very nice. Encouraging the first Indian player to join an EPL club - very nice. Making Rovers into India's club - very nice. But this has <keeping my language clean> nothing to do with protecting what is already there from oblivion. If there's no one on the end of the phone when other clubs call about transfers where the Heck are we in terms of organisation. If we don't know who's in charge of transfers - Kean, SEM, Kentaro, Joorabchian, Venkys, etc., - how can we get enthused about the season ahead and swell the masses who are queing for season tickets. Are we supposed to keep our noses out of it and just turn up on the first day to see how it turned out?

Venkys need to get themselves or their representatives to communicate with the 'fans' and address these specific issues and not court a handful of people in Pune in total anonimity (OK that bit was sarcy, guess the may have organised a fair bit of media coverage of the trip, maybe even new tandoori chicken Xpress adverts to make - ouch).

I'll get off my soapbox now and put away the sense of righteous indignation but that's pretty much how I see it. I'll trust them when they explain what they've done, why they did it and how they intend to take things forward to a brighter future.

Good luck with the trip mum, please don't take this as anything against you guys and the 9 but from my point of view Venkys could do something a lot more productive than this.

[Al]

Of course it's elitist. Only fans known to the club through the FF have been chosen. The rank and file season ticket holders had no say. It was even being kept secret from them until a newspaper got hold of it.Is it a coincidence that several of the chosen few are mods on here?

It's a jolly for the FF to keep them on side.

Edit.

Thank you Tris for taking the time and trouble for answering my post properly. I am gratified that there are fans who represent my views going on this trip. You reply is in contrast to Fernhurst Rover who can't be bothered to make a proper reply. Anyone who has that attitude has no right to represent me or anybody else at a meeting and does not deserve to be present on the trip.

Just to bring this post up to date as by the time I had edited it it was a page behind the times.

[John]

RoversMum don't get me wrong, I'm not some rabid reactionary who automatically disapproves of any new initiative. To the contrary now that you and the others have been invited I applaud such collective zeal and passion for the cause that would make you embark on such a venture. I have no problem with what you are doing, I hope the trip goes very well and you find it productive.

My issue is not with the invitees but with the invitor. Venkys might make 9 people (+2) very happy and give them a nice warm feeling inside that the club is on the right track. But how's this different from the current factions on this board. One group says everything stinks and the other says everything is rosy. We'll just have 9 + 2 people moving into or out of a particular camp.

If Venkys or their PR want to get to the nub of problem there are better and more productive ways they could tackle this. If a meet and greet is their 'thing' then they could have done it in the Blackburn/Darwen/Bolton area.

Speaking for myself (and I don't know how many others share this view) I couldn't feel worse about the club if they had committed deliberate treachery. The promises they made up front have been broken. And let's get real :

- How many would have expected them to sack Sam, Williams, Finn et al when we were promised either no or slow gradual change?

- How many would have expected them to wait until the end of the season to appoint a new manager if they absolutely had to sack Sam?

- How many would have expected our overdraft to be paid off when that was ostensibly part of the deal.

- Who would have expected them to take out a further facility to bankroll the club?

- Who would have expected them to reinvest at least the P Jones money in the close season.

- Who expected an additional 5 million for transfers that never happened.

- Who expected Kean to be put in charge ably supported by an assistant that would 'make the football world sit up and take notice'?

It's a litany of actions that either they made and broke, or expectations that they did nothing to manage or control. Either/or we have been raised to a great height and dropped.

I'm less interested in the next batch of promises and more interested in discovering what on earth they thought they were doing and in light of that why on earth are they all so suprised that we are upset. As I said in another post that if Kean was disappointed with the protest then I'm dissapointed that he's disappointed because that shows that he/they just don't get it. They're nodding in all the right places but no one is listening.

This is just my take on matters and there will 20,000 other views and takes on that which they need to be aware of and explain.

An Academy in Pune - very nice. Encouraging the first Indian player to join an EPL club - very nice. Making Rovers into India's club - very nice. But this has <keeping my language clean> nothing to do with protecting what is already there from oblivion. If there's no one on the end of the phone when other clubs call about transfers where the Heck are we in terms of organisation. If we don't know who's in charge of transfers - Kean, SEM, Kentaro, Joorabchian, Venkys, etc., - how can we get enthused about the season ahead and swell the masses who are queing for season tickets. Are we supposed to keep our noses out of it and just turn up on the first day to see how it turned out?

Venkys need to get themselves or their representatives to communicate with the 'fans' and address these specific issues and not court a handful of people in Pune in total anonimity (OK that bit was sarcy, guess the may have organised a fair bit of media coverage of the trip, maybe even new tandoori chicken Xpress adverts to make - ouch).

I'll get off my soapbox now and put away the sense of righteous indignation but that's pretty much how I see it. I'll trust them when they explain what they've done, why they did it and how they intend to take things forward to a brighter future.

Good luck with the trip mum, please don't take this as anything against you guys and the 9 but from my point of view Venkys could do something a lot more productive than this.

Very good post and poses some key questions - we can all enjoy the short term spin and the 3 points against Arsenal of course, however some key areas still need to be answered and addressed before the good times are back and we have a steady ship.

[perthblue02]

Exactly.

They were badly advised at the start but are getting there. Whose advice would folks rather have? After all, fans know it all, don't they?

They did not need to ask fans , Anybody in the right mind would do their research before getting involved in any large business transaction and that includes doing research on any agent/3rd party advising or offering advice for large sums of money.

Venky's run a worldwide business and I still find it very odd and worrying they did not check who they were getting into bed with, so to speak

[Al]

You are correct, I haven't tried and to be quite frank I'm not going to waste my time either. As for the questions I'll be asking (if/when I get the opportunity), there won't be anything as searching as that...

Unbelievably arrogant.

[AndyNeil]

Unbelievably arrogant.

Which part of the answer? Because I won't pander to your prodding, or the tounge in check answer that obviously (or you chose it to) go way over your head?

[PLJPB]

I'll trust them when they explain what they've done, why they did it and how they intend to take things forward to a brighter future.

Cracking post especially this line. I think they owe this to all concerned supporters. However, are they serious enough about taking supporters with them to do this?

[sijoco]

Re TimmyJimmy's post at the top of the page:

Can one of the "9" print it out and take it with them please.

[Ste B]

If Venkys or their PR want to get to the nub of problem there are better and more productive ways they could tackle this. If a meet and greet is their 'thing' then they could have done it in the Blackburn/Darwen/Bolton area.

I dont think this is just a "meet and greet". Venkys want to show the fans what they are doing in India, and so in this case going over to see it appears to be more appropriate.

I agree entirely that in the future that something should be held at Ewood, but as others have already intimated this is an early stage of rebuilding the relationship between fans and the club.

I'm also on the trip, having been a member of the fans forum for 9 years. I basically found the chairman in the airport on the way to a European game and asked him how I could get on.

The club did also host open meetings with the club whilst BRISA was active, but unfortunately people lacked the time to keep that off the ground and it folded due to lack of interest - I can only hope the new supporters trust manages to get that lift off and provide another representative body.

[Al]

Which part of the answer? Because I won't pander to your prodding, or the tounge in check answer that obviously (or you chose it to) go way over your head?

Because as my representative at a meeting you consider yourself to be so big as not to answer questions about your role in a meeting. Who do you think you are? you have not been chosen by the supporters but rather by the club because they know you already from monthly meetings. Nothing wrong with the funny about the tea.

I dont think this is just a "meet and greet". Venkys want to show the fans what they are doing in India, and so in this case going over to see it appears to be more appropriate.

I agree entirely that in the future that something should be held at Ewood, but as others have already intimated this is an early stage of rebuilding the relationship between fans and the club.

I'm also on the trip, having been a member of the fans forum for 9 years. I basically found the chairman in the airport on the way to a European game and asked him how I could get on.

The club did also host open meetings with the club whilst BRISA was active, but unfortunately people lacked the time to keep that off the ground and it folded due to lack of interest - I can only hope the new supporters trust manages to get that lift off and provide another representative body.

Are all of our mods etc. on this jolly?

[Ste B]

Are all of our mods etc. on this jolly?

2 Admin, 1 Mod. Another 5 of the people going are also members of this site. I need to stress that the entire forum chose the 9 attendees.

[BRFC95]

2 Admin, 1 Mod. Another 5 of the people going are also members of this site. I need to stress that the entire forum chose the 9 attendees.

You all loose credibility for accepting a holiday as a bribe.

It can't be seen in any other light.

Anyway that my last on the whole sordid affair.

[Tom]

You all loose credibility for accepting a holiday as a bribe.

It can't be seen in any other light.

Anyway that my last on the whole sordid affair.

I think you need to be careful what you accuse people of there.

I certainly don't take kindly to be accused of being bribed and I doubt the owners would like being accused of offering bribes

[Tris]

Because as my representative at a meeting you consider yourself to be so big as not to answer questions about your role in a meeting. Who do you think you are? you have not been chosen by the supporters but rather by the club because they know you already from monthly meetings.

In fairness, nobody has ever (to my knowledge) until today used this MB to call into question anybody's participation in the Fans Forum, and whether or not we are representative.

In all the years I have attended, discussing hot topics like the Blackburn End toilets, the volume of the PA, the price of cups of tea at Leigh's stadium and the cleanliness of the Walkerframe bricks ... there has been a distinct lack of challenge as to the ability of the members and the Forum as a whole to do what it does.

Neither has there been a queue of people at the door wanting to contribute or get involved themselves.

It's no surprise that those challenges have come today, but equally none of the members of the FF had the slightest inkling that their involvement would ever lead to this (or any other) such opportunity to take that respresentation beyond what it has been.

Are all of our mods etc. on this jolly?

Again, it should come as no surprise that some of the same people who are willing to give freely of their time to keep this site running, are also some of the people who give freely of their time to be members of the Fans Forum.