Pune trip

[Steve Moss]

Thank you Tom. Don't know why I am back mind. I did pm Glenn once but according to my messenger he's never even read it. You're a mod so tell me how can a recorded and logged 2 day ban last 5 weeks? Who was responsible?

It's good to see you posting again, Theno. I wondered where you had gone off to.

And a 5 week ban seems more than a bit excessive for the language allegedly used (which wasn't even all that bad, but then I'm not sure what "git" means). There is at least the appearance of some personal agendas going on, which is unfortunate.

For the record, I was not (obviously) one of the Pune 9, but I think they were right to go. I also think they did what they could with what they had available, which apparently wasn't enough.

If they hadn't gone, Venkys would have found some other fan group (and there are a few of them) and induced them to go in the FF stead. Which in hindsight may have been a better idea anyway, but we make decisions without the benefit so I'll differ to their judgment (except for Ewood Spark, as his judgement does not inspire confidence).

To stick your head in the sand and decry the critics and pretend all is well because you're scared to admit the reality, ie on the present course we're destined to go down ... now that's being a trembler.

I made the same point to Ewood Spark sometime ago. Doesn't seem to have sunk in.

I quite like the "groveller" rebuttal though. As I'm not personally very brave (to steal a Bob Hope line "Brave men run in my family") and I will "rage against the dying of the light" (thank you, Mr. Thomas), I suppose I'll have to embrace the term "trembler". But it is quite nice to have a corresponding and appropriate label to attach to Ewood Spark next time he starts insulting those who express concern.

[broadsword]

I have a corresponding term, but I daren't post it.

But the image of a groveller being on their knees will do.

[yoda]

I have a corresponding term, but I daren't post it.

But the image of a groveller being on their knees will do.

Oh no,

not the lousy cork sucker scene!

[Tom]

I have a corresponding term, but I daren't post it.

But the image of a groveller being on their knees will do.

But i was told its customary in India to get on your knees in front of your hosts? Damn you Keans guide to India!

[broadsword]

Too much info tom

[thenodrog]

But i was told its customary in India to get on your knees in front of your hosts?

Tell us Tom...... Was ES facing the opposite way to the rest of you by any chance?

[Stuart]

Tell us Tom...... Was ES facing the opposite way to the rest of you by any chance?

I'm glad you've mellowed following your two match ban!

[only2garners]

You are more than welcome to prepare a report for the front page here - we would be very happy to publish that as previously discussed. I don't think it is too late by any means. I think many will agree that there is still a need for the wider community to be informed about the FF trip in a consolidated way and a written article is the best way to accomplish that. The report should not be compromised by any fear of being seen to be promoting pro-Venky's propaganda or assuaging any anti-Venky's sentiment; it should merely present a factual account of the trip. My observation is that when Rovers fans are presented with things in an open and straightforward way, they are a most reasonable bunch of people. If it is published here, you can guarantee that it will be read by several hundred fans at least and picked up by media sources. We could even publish it to PDF for downloading and for distribution to media outlets. It should also go up on the Pune9.com website and there is also no objection from me to allowing this to be published via other interested fans' sites.

I think Paul's original point was that anyone on messageboards or with internet access has had access to plenty of information but that there are a large group of Rovers fans who can't or just don't use the internet who will not have heard anything about the trip. I doubt that any report I or one of the others writes will now get picked up by any other media as the newsworthiness from the trip has gone. They didn't much pick it up when we got back so 3 weeks later they won't either.

Nevertheless if people think that a written report on here, circulated wherever would be useful I'm happy to do it, if I can find the time. I'll see if I can make some time this week.

[Glenn]

Great wind up. Jimmk2 would be proud. Odd however that none of our supercharged mods and especially the one who would need satnav to even find Blackburn has had a word with you about insulting other members..... but then again maybe not given your 'persuasion'.

Shame that you and the 32 people who agree with you are happy just to believe something with no possible way of knowing if it's true. So, ok, quick poll, who knows whether myself and ES have spoken about the acceptability of his recent posts? Oh, I only see two hands, the rest of you can't have an clue whether we did or not (clue, we obviously have !), but hey, mob rule and misinformation seem to be the fashionable thing on here at the moment and as I've said three or for time this week, don't let the facts get in the way of a good witch-hunt.

Was it Glenn or Birty who lifted your ban?

Me. I've not have time to apologise to Gordon yet, but as we now seem under mob rule, then the mob can be responded to as one. Gordon picked up a fairly innocuous 2 day posting ban, to be fair, it was so minor I missed it altogether (I normally only get involved with big bans or major problems). I did think it was odd he'd not been posting, I even checked with the other mods if anyone have potted him (sadly the mod who did is on holiday) and it looked like the 2 day posting was now over. I had missed Gordon (and even emailed to see if everything was OK) but I guess he didn't get it (or I missed his response, more on that later). However, on Friday after repeated pestering (we're talking dozens on PM, emails and twitter DMs) I looked into somebody else who'd picked up a 24hr mod-watch who despite the ban being over, still couldn't post. I spotted a previously unnoticed "make indefinite" tick box. Putting two and two together, I went and checked Gordon's account and voilà he'd simultaneous picked up both a 2 day and an indefinite ban. I'm not sure what's change to a. make this possible and b. why it's never happened before, but we're on the lookout for it now.

And an unashamed complete apology to Gordon. Sorry 2 days became 5 weeks, I can promise you it was a genuine mistake rather than anything malicious.

Not a clue Don. Have you missed me? The only correspondence that I have received was from a moderator on the 24th of Sept to say that I was to be banned for two days for calling another member 'a sad old git'. That was 35 days ago. Quite obviously the guidelines and procedures are ambiguous enough for various interpretation depending on individual agenda.

btw I have suggested that order could be maintained far better on here if when a post is considered unsuitable blanked out by a mod and simply replaced with a message advising the originator to edit any offending bits out as necessary before the post could be shown to all. Not had a reply as yet though.

Sorry. I'm currently kinda working 2 jobs as well as looking after BRFCS. My email and PM backlog is HUGE. Oh and as any PMs are both emailed to me and SMSed to me (as are twitter DMs) I *DO* read everything, I'm just very very behind with replying. To give you an idea of what it's like at the moment, Friday I have 30 different BRFCS related message, not including people hitting the report button.

Do you not find it odd that 'all' don't appear to agree with you?

Q. Tell me would you have gone if the invitation had stipulated that you all had had to pay for everything yourselves? YES or NO Tom?

btw This is open to any of the Pune 9 to answer (especially you ES) but rem a simple YES or NO will suffice.

Now I might be wrong and I may be making assumptions but if that had been the case I've a feeling that a suggestion would have been made to the owners requesting said meeting be held here. If that is indeed the case then please don't expect others not to see an all expenses paid holiday, half way around the world, flying business / club class with 5* accomodation as an obvious attempt to bribe. If you are offended by the word bribe then simply water it down by replacing it with one of the following flannel/butter up/curry favour. Whichever it is and no matter what you say up front you must all have that nagging feeling that you have been used.

I used to get offended by people describing it as a bribe (my integrity matter a LOT to me), but as I had previously tried to secure an audience (and tried to secure funding to make it happen), I'll leave you with a simple Yes (and a note to say my concious is clear). The others may have too, but I'll save the explanation for why to the long post at the end.

talking again of moderation standards ... pls can the mod that has deleted my post from 30mins ago pls explain what was wrong with it? was it criticsim of the mods or the word sycophants or the bonfire song?

thanks for your ongoing efforts

It's not deleted, it's hidden. Standard procedure when a post gets reported and the mod isn't sure. Whilst I felt your post was pretty innocent, it received complaints for both inciting violence and attempting to bypass the swear filter.

Wasn't necessarily my intention Al. I maintain they should have declined. Also I accept there is prob a good representation of tremblers amongst them too.

You may accept it, but that just once again shows you'll accept any old crap that supports your view, regardless of the fact you couldn't know one way or the other. In fact, yesterday at Norwich I was talking to somebody on the FF who's been asked by fans who had contacted the club, to stand down as he was seen to be part of one of the protests.

I know the +2 don't share most of our views, but as they weren't part of the nine, don't factor into this. ES has made his views clear and whilst some of the others I believe are anti-protest (as were many of the fans I was talking to yesterday interestingly) I can't think of one of them being happy at being described as pro-Kean at the moment.

As for your other question, answer is if I had the money available then yes I would have paid, whether I did or didn't have it is another matter (politician hat off)

See my long last bit about "fans".

Well done Tom and imo you should have stuck at it. Instead you have handed them the high ground and in doing so you have lost a lot of respect amongst your fellow supporters and probably some from the Venkeymob too.

I suspect just the opposite. Many of us felt that having our message filtered through aides, PR people, news papers and others with their own agendas meant our voices weren't being heard as we wanted them. The end result is we got two of most influential people in all this to sit down and listen. If following what I believe is right, saying I'm doing it, then following through on that loses me respect, well so be it. Ultimately I felt it was the right thing to do for the club (which is what I care about) and I'd do it again in a heart beat.

Whether it made a difference is up for debate. But I'd personally have lost self respect if I'd have not at least TRIED! I firmly believe I don't have a right to moan about something until I've done all I can to fix it. Other than a handful of people, what have people actually DONE to try a make a difference other than moan? I think the protests are counter productive, but I really admire those that actually got up off their fat arses and actually TRIED to make a difference.

Thank you Tom. Don't know why I am back mind. I did pm Glenn once but according to my messenger he's never even read it. You're a mod so tell me how can a recorded and logged 2 day ban last 5 weeks? Who was responsible?

Most of that's been anwserd, but Hanlon's Razor applies here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

btw Despite you saying YES if I had the money I've actually read between the lines and put you down as a NO. So thats 1 down 8 to go. Pass the honesty box on would you please. Darwen next stop preferably.

So. Tom gives you two yes' (and I'll go on to explain why I feel it's technically 9 yes'), but you read it as one No's. You need to be given the Daily Mail a call, there should be job opening for you.

Ok, so, would we have paid? To answer than I need to explain that as I see it, there are different types of people who fall under the description "fan".

• Genuine Fanatics - Taking Fan at it's truest meaning, it means fanatic and to me a fanatic will to anything reasonable to get to games and support their club. But reasonable is an important word we'll come back to.
• Supporters - If you follow the results, spend money on Rovers but it's isn't the be all and end all. To me, if you no longer do anything reasonable to get to games, if suddenly a round of golf is more important than getting to Ewood, then you've downgraded from fanatic to supporter. Supporters are important to the club and many can soon become fanatics, but ultimately, they aren't going to put themselves out too much if the reward isn't to great. It bothers me I know a lot of once fanatics who are now supporters
• Spectators - People who turn up, but don't really care about the club, it's status, it's pride. They just view themselves as consumers. They'll turn up for Chelsea, but would never dream of going to watch a cup tie against Leyton Orient.

So, "anything reasonable". We all have to define this for themselves. I remember MikieFin driving 6hrs to another country to watch us on TV and selling his furniture for a flight ticket to the UK for the Worthy Cup Final, I remember Jordan spending 24hrs in Heathrow after flying back from our game in Sofia as we had a game on London the day after and couldn't afford a hotel. That's a level of fanaticism is amazing, but for me, it's beyond reasonable. I've missed numerous away games and European games because I simply couldn't afford it, does that mean I'm not a fan? Conversely I left my wife's bedside 2hrs after an op to make sure I got to a pre-season against Wrexham. Ultimately, to me, if you're a true fanatic, if you can justify the time and the effort, you'll be there. "Can't be bothered" is never an excuse for a fanatic, "it's not worth it" is never an excuse for a fanatic, "I don't have the time" and "I don't have the money" are.

Now, a trip to India whilst an amazingly generous possibly once in a life time offer, but still had a cost in both time (a week off work at short notice is tricky, the damage its done to my company alone is significant) and money (for a free trip, for which I'm very grateful, it still cost roughly £300 in incidentals that I couldn't really afford at the moment) but of course everyone who could go, wanted to (as did some fans who went independently) because they are fanatical about the club. The fact somebody else picked up the majority of the tab simply helped raise the bar of what is "reasonable" to get there.

So, to go back to the original question, would the 9 have gone to India if it wasn't paid for, then I suspect the only thing stopping them was the cost. They'd do anything reasonable to get there, but shelling out the money it would have taken would have stopped it for most of them (though many of them went to Hong Kong for a pre-season and that didn't include a meeting with the owners). You have to remember, many of these are people that time their summer holidays to take in pre-season games outside the UK, of course the combined chance of watching Rovers AND a chance to put their message across to the owners is something they'd jump at. They are fanatics, not simply supporters or spectators.

Now, I expect many of you just skipped to the end and will continue to carry on following the mob rather than actually looking for the facts and thinking on your own. Which is a shame, I think I made some very good points.

[SAS]

Great in depth post Glenn. I agree with your 'types' of supporters bob on.

I was a fanatical fan.

Sadly now I'm just a supporter, but only due to cost and work commitments.

I would have took the chance to go to Pune with both hands, and I think the majority of this board would have. Even those that claim they would not.

It's easy to say you'll do it now, then when push cones to shove you change your mind.

At the end of the day, people WERE going to go to India. So why not take the chance, even if it's to slag the owners off and grumble the entire time. At least you could have an impact.

As you explain, finding time off work, extra expenses, missing loved ones is not easy at all.

[thenodrog]

It's good to see you posting again, Theno. I wondered where you had gone off to.

And a 5 week ban seems more than a bit excessive for the language allegedly used (which wasn't even all that bad, but then I'm not sure what "git" means). There is at least the appearance of some personal agendas going on, which is unfortunate.

Thank you Steve. Here this may help.....

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/git?q=git

I suppose one may question the intent but never the accuracy of my choice of words regarding the member in question. I suspect he used to revel in being the most unpopular member on here, that is until ES trumped him hands down.

btw anybody know if Jim is banned too? He's not been on since he criticised some mod or other a fortnight ago.

[AllRoverAsia]

Thank you Steve. Here this may help.....

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/git?q=git

I suppose one may question the intent but never the accuracy of my choice of words regarding the member in question. I suspect he used to revel in being the most unpopular member on here, that is until ES trumped him hands down.

btw anybody know if Jim is banned too? He's not been on since he criticised some mod or other a fortnight ago.

From Urban Dictionary: Total and utter tosser who is incapable of doing anything other than annoying people, and not in a way that is funny to others.

I have not made that up!

UD link

[ABBEY]

Who?

[thenodrog]

Thanks for that Glenn. Fair and open as always. Doesn't mean I agree with everything though as you might expect. I sent you an email a month ago to the address that I used previously. Have you changed it? Also you must have got mine wrong cos I've received nothing from you on either email address. Try sending it again.

Mind if I now 'SHOUT' in order to differentiate?

Shame that you and the 32 people who agree with you are happy just to believe something with no possible way of knowing if it's true. So, ok, quick poll, who knows whether myself and ES have spoken about the acceptability of his recent posts? Oh, I only see two hands, the rest of you can't have an clue whether we did or not (clue, we obviously have !), but hey, mob rule and misinformation seem to be the fashionable thing on here at the moment and as I've said three or for time this week, don't let the facts get in the way of a good witch-hunt.

THATS GOOD AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD ALSO IF HEMEL HAD ADOPTED YOUR PERSONAL SKILLS. LIKE GOOD REFS A GOOD MOD SHOULD RARELY BE NOTICED.

Me. I've not have time to apologise to Gordon yet, but as we now seem under mob rule, then the mob can be responded to as one. Gordon picked up a fairly innocuous 2 day posting ban, to be fair, it was so minor I missed it altogether (I normally only get involved with big bans or major problems). I did think it was odd he'd not been posting, I even checked with the other mods if anyone have potted him (sadly the mod who did is on holiday) and it looked like the 2 day posting was now over. I had missed Gordon (and even emailed to see if everything was OK) but I guess he didn't get it (or I missed his response, more on that later). However, on Friday after repeated pestering (we're talking dozens on PM, emails and twitter DMs) I looked into somebody else who'd picked up a 24hr mod-watch who despite the ban being over, still couldn't post. I spotted a previously unnoticed "make indefinite" tick box. Putting two and two together, I went and checked Gordon's account and voilà he'd simultaneous picked up both a 2 day and an indefinite ban. I'm not sure what's change to a. make this possible and b. why it's never happened before, but we're on the lookout for it now.

And an unashamed complete apology to Gordon. Sorry 2 days became 5 weeks, I can promise you it was a genuine mistake rather than anything malicious.

THANK YOU GLENN. APOLOGY QUICKLY ACCEPTED. I'M SURE HEMEL WILL EAGERLY POST ONE TOO WHEN HE GETS BACK.

SPEAKING OF BIG BANS HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN A MEMBER OF LONG STANDING (A TERRIFIED MOD CAUSED AN INTERRUPTION OF A PRIVATE MEAL I AM TOLD) WHO IS RATHER FOND OF ANAGRAMS HAS BEEN BANNED FOR MONTHS FOR OFFENDING ME I AM LED TO BELIEVE!!! MIGHTY ODD COS I NEVER COMPLAINED, CERTAINLY DIDN'T REPORT NOR EVEN SUFFERED OFFENCE.

It's not deleted, it's hidden. Standard procedure when a post gets reported and the mod isn't sure. Whilst I felt your post was pretty innocent, it received complaints for both inciting violence and attempting to bypass the swear filter.

MY EMAIL (WHICH YOU NEVER GOT) CONTAINED A SUGGESTION THAT SUCH POSTS BE REPLACED WITH A MESSAGE ON THE BOARD FOR THE POSTER TO EDIT ANY UNSUITABLE CONTENT OUT BEFORE THE POST WOULD 'GO PUBLIC'. SURELY THIS WOULD SAVE BOTH MODS TIME AND ALSO MUCH UNECESSARY UNPLEASANTNESS.

Whether it made a difference is up for debate. But I'd personally have lost self respect if I'd have not at least TRIED! I firmly believe I don't have a right to moan about something until I've done all I can to fix it. Other than a handful of people, what have people actually DONE to try a make a difference other than moan? I think the protests are counter productive, but I really admire those that actually got up off their fat arses and actually TRIED to make a difference.

I GOT OFF MY ARSE FOR THE FIRST ONE EVEN THOUGH MY GRIPES ARE WITH THE OWNERS MUCH MORE THAN WITH STEVE KEAN. HE'S JUST AN UNREMARKABLE FALL GUY WHO HAS BEEN PROMOTED TO A POSITION OF INCOMPETENCE. FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH GLEN MULLEN NEEDS TO TAKE THAT ON BOARD.

So. Tom gives you two yes' (and I'll go on to explain why I feel it's technically 9 yes'), but you read it as one No's. You need to be given the Daily Mail a call, there should be job opening for you.

Ok, so, would we have paid? To answer than I need to explain that as I see it, there are different types of people who fall under the description "fan".

• Genuine Fanatics - Taking Fan at it's truest meaning, it means fanatic and to me a fanatic will to anything reasonable to get to games and support their club. But reasonable is an important word we'll come back to.
• Supporters - If you follow the results, spend money on Rovers but it's isn't the be all and end all. To me, if you no longer do anything reasonable to get to games, if suddenly a round of golf is more important than getting to Ewood, then you've downgraded from fanatic to supporter. Supporters are important to the club and many can soon become fanatics, but ultimately, they aren't going to put themselves out too much if the reward isn't to great. It bothers me I know a lot of once fanatics who are now supporters
• Spectators - People who turn up, but don't really care about the club, it's status, it's pride. They just view themselves as consumers. They'll turn up for Chelsea, but would never dream of going to watch a cup tie against Leyton Orient.

So, to go back to the original question, would the 9 have gone to India if it wasn't paid for, then I suspect the only thing stopping them was the cost. They'd do anything reasonable to get there, but shelling out the money it would have taken would have stopped it for most of them (though many of them went to Hong Kong for a pre-season and that didn't include a meeting with the owners). You have to remember, many of these are people that time their summer holidays to take in pre-season games outside the UK, of course the combined chance of watching Rovers AND a chance to put their message across to the owners is something they'd jump at. They are fanatics, not simply supporters or spectators.

SORRY BUT YOU'LL HAVE TO ADD A CATEGORY ABOVE EVEN YOU GLENN. PITTARD, BIRDY ET AL MUST NOW BE ELEVATED TO SUPERFANS COS THEY WENT WITH NO FINANCIAL HELP AS ALWAYS.

SPEAKING PERSONALLY I MUST NOW BE WITH SAS (ALTHOUGH I'D RATHER HAVE STUCK PIN S IN KY EYES FOR A WEEK RATHER THAN GO TO PUNE). AFTER OVER HALF A CENTURY I AM NOW JUST A SUPPORTER. I CANNOT TOLERATE LIARS AND DO NOT SUFFER FOOLS GLADLY AND OUR OWNERS HAVE TURNED OUT TO BE BOTH!

BUT TAKE NOTE GLENN WHETHER WE ARE SUPPORTERS, FANS OR SPECTATORS WE ARE FIRST AND FOREMOST CUSTOMERS. AND IF ONE OF MY CUSTOMERS HAD A GRIPE I WOULD GO TO SEE HIM NOT EXPECT HIM TO COME TO ME. ANYBODY WHO THINKS LIKE THAT WILL SOON NOT HAVE ANY CUSTOMERS. CURRENTLY EVIDENCE OF THAT IS THERE FOR ALL TO SEE ON MATCH DAYS.

btw can I now have a credit note for 4 weeks and 5 days to put against my next ban?

From Urban Dictionary: Total and utter tosser who is incapable of doing anything other than annoying people, and not in a way that is funny to others.

I have not made that up!

UD link

Thats the feller to a tee!

btw I checked that link but given that I've only been back a day decided discretion was the better part of valour.

[Glenn]

Thanks for that Glenn. Fair and open as always. Doesn't mean I agree with everything though as you might expect. I sent you an email a month ago to the address that I used previously. Have you changed it? Also you must have got mine wrong cos I've received nothing from you on either email address. Try sending it again.

Mind if I now 'SHOUT' in order to differentiate?

I'll have to hold my hands up and say I missed it, I've found it now, it was marked as "dealt with" even though I've no recollection of even reading it (which means I wrongly dismissed it as crap ... sorry). Some good ideas in there, I *will* get around to replying.

Sadly the way your replied means I can't easily do nice contexual replies, so you'll have to bear with me for giving disjointed replies.

Modding - I'm are on a mission to try and return some of the "friendly" to the board without losing the debate and I believe a few recidivists have picked up some long term posting bans recently which seems to have helped. As people seem to be so driven by mob rule, I'm hoping the mob will decided that "being a dick" (for want of a better term) is unacceptable before they return.

Edits - I love the idea, but we have to work within the confines of the software (we have the ability to modify it, but it comes at a huge cost time wise). Sadly on the advice on a solicitor, we no longer edit peoples posts for minor offences without their permission, instead we remove them. Whilst bloody annoying (we end up hiding things for the prettiest of reasons) it puts us in a legally safer place. As an interesting aside, new proposed UK legislation could absolve the site of any responsibility for "none anonymous" posts. I wonder how people would feel about using real names rather than handles?

Fans and Supporters - I tried to get across the super-fan point, by saying the people have a much higher level of what is acceptable than me. But my ultimate worry is one we seem to share, that fanatics are rapidly becoming supporters (and supporters spectators) and it's very obvious why. Some good results on the pitch will help a lot, but it won't solve everything. I've long thought Rovers could improve their interaction with the fans a lot, it's just at the moment it's more essential than ever before. This isn't the place for me to go into WHY I think they are poor at it, but as you may have guessed, it's something I've actually been trying to influence in the hope it'll bring change.

Anyway, good to have you back. We often disagree, but at least you make some interesting arguments.

btw can I now have a credit note for 4 weeks and 5 days to put against my next ban?

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Just talk to our refunds dept. It's currently managed by Hemel and Ste. Good Luck

[ABBEY]

never used to be like this in vinjays day

[Paul]

I believe a few recidivists have picked up some long term posting bans recently which seems to have helped.

Yes it did for a while.

[FourLaneBlue]

I used to get offended by people describing it as a bribe (my integrity matter a LOT to me), but as I had previously tried to secure an audience (and tried to secure funding to make it happen), I'll leave you with a simple Yes (and a note to say my concious is clear). The others may have too, but I'll save the explanation for why to the long post at the end.

I stopped posting on this subject, as I seemed to be offending fellow Rovers supporters, and that was not my intention, nor was calling their integrity into question. Therefore, I will stay away from commenting on the Pune trip at all.

I would suggest, however, that this is not the time for supporters to be fighting amongst themselves. Coming up with names such as "tremblers" and "grovellers" is preposterous and going to get us nowhere other than to a state of Rovers fan turning on Rovers fan, slinging insults.

Regarding the grades of fan...To my mind, a fanatic is not the kind of fan that will cheer on the team regardless, even when it is obvious that the best interests of the club are under threat. Some of these so-called super fans actually put their idea of themselves first, over and above the club. "Sure, the club might go to sheeeeit but I never stopped clapping and ra-ra-raaaarring!" says the so-called Fanatic. Their idea of themselves being the super-fan is what matters, and they recall the bad days of supporting Rovers as a badge of honour. "Eeee...it was worse in the seventies in div three!" Synonyms of fanatic of course being bigot, extremist, militant, monomaniac, zealot, among others.

There's a long history of people not speaking out when things need changing. Something is not right at Rovers, surely even the Raos' biggest fans must agree with that. You can either accept it or speak out against it.

[Steve Moss]

Thank you Steve. Here this may help.....

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/git?q=git

btw anybody know if Jim is banned too? He's not been on since he criticised some mod or other a fortnight ago.

I now know what a "git" is. If someone calls me one the next time I'm in England, I'll have to raise my hand and plead guilty.

And that is a good question about Jim. I think his politics verges on lunacy, but his Rovers posts were pretty solid.

. . .As an interesting aside, new proposed UK legislation could absolve the site of any responsibility for "none anonymous" posts. I wonder how people would feel about using real names rather than handles?

I have no problem with using real names.

Edit: Can someone who can contact the Raos (perhaps the Pune 9-11) pass this link on to them? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2051618/What-agent-Willie-McKay-doing-Doncaster-Rovers.html

If we must have an agent in the club, why not someone like McKay as opposed to Anderson?

[thenodrog]

Anyway, good to have you back. We often disagree, but at least you make some interesting arguments.

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Just talk to our refunds dept. It's currently managed by Hemel and Ste. Good Luck

There wouldn't be a mboard if everyone agreed would there?.....

btw Could you fwd this post to the Refunds Dept?

[Glenn]

They don't do email. All correspondence must by on the back on an unmarked £50. Longer requests should be made on none-sequential bills.

[yoda]

They don't do email. All correspondence must by on the back on an unmarked £50. Longer requests should be made on none-sequential bills.

Is that something you picked up on the Pune trip?

[philipl]

The thing that strikes me about the Pune trip is the owners would even have hidden from the fans they so expensively flew over to Pune if the Pune 9 hadn't been so smart and teased them out of hiding.

Even so, Mrs Desai is still running frit of the fans to borrow a Thatcherism.

[den]

She doesn't really exist does she?

Don't be stupid Philip.

[philipl]

She doesn't really exist does she?

Don't be stupid Philip.

A photofit hologram perhaps?