[Archived] Steve Keans exciting signings

[FourLaneBlue]

I think needlessly paying up the contracts of two Premiership-experienced players in Diouf and Emerton was madness. Diouf's last game was against QPR in which he set up the winner. Emerton would be a far better option at right back against a speedy winger than Salgado is.

We didn't have that large a squad as it was, so shelling out cash to get rid of them was ridiculous. Why let Emerton go but then play him against Everton?

[JAL]

Anyone who doesn't see Rochina as an exciting signing hasn't got a pulse IMO.

He's potentially the most exciting player we've bought in years for me, yes he's raw, yes he's got a lot to learn but the early signs are promising.

Dream on darling.

[AHoyle90]

Didn't particularly enjoy some of the games under him at Ewood but Allardyce had it nailed. Signings were made with a plan in place, they were all bought for a purpose and it was a team built to play the Sam Allardyce way, and it worked, we were guaranteed safety and in his only full season put us in the top half, where we can only dream of being nowadays.

The likes of El Hadji Diouf, liked him or not, slotted into a system of play that the opposition hated to play against at Ewood. He tracked back all game, making a nuisance of himself, winning free kicks, and generally provided a decent attacking option. The emergence of Hoilett has been brilliant but these two could easily play in the same team, with Hoilett behind the striker. Also as others have pointed out, Brett was a very good at overlapping as a full back and never looked exposed defensively.

Keans signigs he just seems to have thrown together without a real plan or system of play. Take players like N'Zonzi, Givet for example, fitted right into the Sam Allardyce philosophy of being a nightmare to play against.

I wasn't the biggest supporter of Allardyce at the time, but by the hell I miss him and the home performances he had us churning out on a regular basis at Ewood. Even Carlo Ancelotti (UEFA Champions League winner at A.C Milan btw) said he would even play the same way given the resources Sam had at our club.

Makes me sick.

And got to add paying Emerton and Diouf off is a shocking decision.

[Mercer]

I think needlessly paying up the contracts of two Premiership-experienced players in Diouf and Emerton was madness. Diouf's last game was against QPR in which he set up the winner. Emerton would be a far better option at right back against a speedy winger than Salgado is.

We didn't have that large a squad as it was, so shelling out cash to get rid of them was ridiculous. Why let Emerton go but then play him against Everton?

Absolutely spot-on.

I feel sure at some point soon, even the pro Kean camp will see the, IMO, idiocy behind letting two experienced and proven players go.

[True Blue & White]

....leaves very few options for plan B. We don't have the strength and height to cause teams problems

Samba, N.Zonzi, Petrovic..we certainly have the height. I agree with your post in general though.

[jim mk2]

Didn't particularly enjoy some of the games under him at Ewood but Allardyce had it nailed. Signings were made with a plan in place, they were all bought for a purpose and it was a team built to play the Sam Allardyce way, and it worked, we were guaranteed safety and in his only full season put us in the top half, where we can only dream of being nowadays.

The likes of El Hadji Diouf, liked him or not, slotted into a system of play that the opposition hated to play against at Ewood. He tracked back all game, making a nuisance of himself, winning free kicks, and generally provided a decent attacking option. The emergence of Hoilett has been brilliant but these two could easily play in the same team, with Hoilett behind the striker. Also as others have pointed out, Brett was a very good at overlapping as a full back and never looked exposed defensively.

Keans signigs he just seems to have thrown together without a real plan or system of play. Take players like N'Zonzi, Givet for example, fitted right into the Sam Allardyce philosophy of being a nightmare to play against.

I wasn't the biggest supporter of Allardyce at the time, but by the hell I miss him and the home performances he had us churning out on a regular basis at Ewood. Even Carlo Ancelotti (UEFA Champions League winner at A.C Milan btw) said he would even play the same way given the resources Sam had at our club.

Makes me sick.

And got to add paying Emerton and Diouf off is a shocking decision.

Excellent post.

[Amo]

Didn't particularly enjoy some of the games under him at Ewood but Allardyce had it nailed. Signings were made with a plan in place, they were all bought for a purpose and it was a team built to play the Sam Allardyce way, and it worked, we were guaranteed safety and in his only full season put us in the top half, where we can only dream of being nowadays.

You mean like having three right-backs, no specialist left-back, and a £6m striker who clearly wasn't a target man?

[47er]

You mean like having three right-backs, no specialist left-back, and a £6m striker who clearly wasn't a target man?

Look at the man's record Topman. Nobody ever said he didn't make mistakes but he wouldn't have let Emerton go for nothing and paid Diouf to leave! And he wouldn't have wasted transfer funds on that dross Kean bought.

And we wouldn't be facing another relegation season either. God I wish he was still here.

(By the way you do realise we got the 6M back for Kalinic don't you?)

[Amo]

Look at the man's record Topman. Nobody ever said he didn't make mistakes but he wouldn't have let Emerton go for nothing and paid Diouf to leave! And he wouldn't have wasted transfer funds on that dross Kean bought.

And we wouldn't be facing another relegation season either. God I wish he was still here.

Never mentioned Sam's record here. He did a fine job, but let's not pretend we weren't scratching our heads at some of his decisions.

(By the way you do realise we got the 6M back for Kalinic don't you?)

Negotiated by who?

[Veevs]

For me the biggest joke is it does not take a rocket scientist to realise that you introduce young players slowly when and where appropriate, they need stability and players around them to learn from and you also should expect young players (especially from weaker leagues and abroad) to take time to settle.. Kean himself should know this as it took 7-8 months from when we signed Rochina and Formica for them to be involved in the first team squad (never mind Kalinic and co).

His transfers look especially daft when you look around and see players like Barton, Reo-Cocker, Marveux, Vaughan, Ba, Armand Traoré, Paulsen, Bellamy et al all moving on free transfers and any of these would of fit into our first 11.. and I do not believe that none of these players would of come to Rovers.. Vaughan for example was living in Blackpool and settled in the area.

We also utterly failed in the loan market.. surely we could have picked up a couple of experienced loanie players..

When you also consider the total sums of money involved in these transfers made by rovers is in the region of 17m and only really Dann and maybe now the Yak are nailed on starters that money is beginning to look very badly spent especially considering we already have Givet, Hanley and Nelson in central defense.

Personally I am a bigger fan of spending a little more on fewer but more experienced players (in the right positions) and then using the change to pick up young kids not the shotgun approach used.

Buying youngsters sounds great but they need time to develop, settle, fit in with the team and the last thing you want to do is destroy them by shattering their confidence before they even have chance.

Dann for me is a bizarre on in some ways.. he is a decent player but how we signed him seems odd to me, it has to of been either him or us (in case we found a top class stiker or something) holding out until the last minute either way it's not a good sign. If he does well then I would not be suprised to see him disappear very very quickly.

You mean like having three right-backs, no specialist left-back, and a £6m striker who clearly wasn't a target man?

Shame we don't have three right backs these days.. nor a specialist left back come to think of it.. and about that target man..

[47er]

Never mentioned Sam's record here. He did a fine job, but let's not pretend we weren't scratching our heads at some of his decisions.

Negotiated by who?

Jesus, Topman you are obfuscating for the sake of it. You have alluded to one aspect of Sam's record by referring to some transfer decisions of his you didn't like. Its only reasonable then for me to point to his overall record in rebuttal. And I have never pretended he never made a mistake and nor has anyone else. However over years and years he proved to be a fine manager and I wish he was here now. What can we say in praise of the current occupant of the post?

As for Kalinic's transfer, what's your point? The transfer was negotiated by those appointed to negotiate it. If we were back a few months it would have been handled by Messers Finn and Williams and I wish they were still here too.No reason to suppose the outcome would have been any different is there?

[booth]

We would of been better off buying yakabu, and spending the rest of the money on Jermaine Jones whilst keeping Emerton until at least Jan. That alone would leave us a much stronger team than what we are now.

I dread to think what we'd be like at the back without getting Dann in.

[Amo]

Jesus, Topman you are obfuscating for the sake of it. You have alluded to one aspect of Sam's record by referring to some transfer decisions of his you didn't like. Its only reasonable then for me to point to his overall record in rebuttal.

No, it's not. If the matter was Sam's record as manager, then yes. But the matter was 'Signings were made with a plan in place, they were all bought for a purpose', which clearly wasn't true, regardless of results. Yours is the classic strawman argument when any criticism comes Allardyce's way.

He signed Chimbonda, when we already had Salgado & Emerton who could play right-back, when we really needed a proper left-back.

He panic-bought Kalinic for £6m, when it was obvious he was no Kevin Davies.

Sam knew how to make us difficult to beat (at home, anyway) and squeeze goals out of the side through set-plays. But he also made some poor signings and tried to wedge square pegs in round holes.

However over years and years he proved to be a fine manager and I wish he was here now. What can we say in praise of the current occupant of the post?

I don't know and I don't care, because that wasn't the point.

As for Kalinic's transfer, what's your point? The transfer was negotiated by those appointed to negotiate it. If we were back a few months it would have been handled by Messers Finn and Williams and I wish they were still here too.No reason to suppose the outcome would have been any different is there?

It was brilliant business to get £6m upfront for Kalinic after he flopped so spectacularly.

If you're trying to say that somehow vindicated Sam signing him, then you're so wrong.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Didn't particularly enjoy some of the games under him at Ewood but Allardyce had it nailed. Signings were made with a plan in place, they were all bought for a purpose and it was a team built to play the Sam Allardyce way, and it worked, we were guaranteed safety and in his only full season put us in the top half, where we can only dream of being nowadays.

The likes of El Hadji Diouf, liked him or not, slotted into a system of play that the opposition hated to play against at Ewood. He tracked back all game, making a nuisance of himself, winning free kicks, and generally provided a decent attacking option. The emergence of Hoilett has been brilliant but these two could easily play in the same team, with Hoilett behind the striker. Also as others have pointed out, Brett was a very good at overlapping as a full back and never looked exposed defensively.

Keans signigs he just seems to have thrown together without a real plan or system of play. Take players like N'Zonzi, Givet for example, fitted right into the Sam Allardyce philosophy of being a nightmare to play against.

I wasn't the biggest supporter of Allardyce at the time, but by the hell I miss him and the home performances he had us churning out on a regular basis at Ewood. Even Carlo Ancelotti (UEFA Champions League winner at A.C Milan btw) said he would even play the same way given the resources Sam had at our club.

Makes me sick.

And got to add paying Emerton and Diouf off is a shocking decision.

Excellent post and bob on. Also agreed that paying off Diouf and Emo was absolute madness, as they have forgotten more than the new signings will ever know.

No, it's not. If the matter was Sam's record as manager, then yes. But the matter was 'Signings were made with a plan in place, they were all bought for a purpose', which clearly wasn't true, regardless of results. Yours is the classic strawman argument when any criticism comes Allardyce's way.

He signed Chimbonda, when we already had Salgado & Emerton who could play right-back, when we really needed a proper left-back.

He panic-bought Kalinic for £6m, when it was obvious he was no Kevin Davies.

Sam knew how to make us difficult to beat (at home, anyway) and squeeze goals out of the side through set-plays. But he also made some poor signings and tried to wedge square pegs in round holes.

I don't know and I don't care, because that wasn't the point.

It was brilliant business to get £6m upfront for Kalinic after he flopped so spectacularly. If you're trying to say that somehow vindicated Sam signing him, then you're so wrong.

Classic. I said all along we would recoup our money on him, but many thought he would go for a major loss. Not sure why, as International players scoring goals normally retain values. You can only get what someone was willing to pay, so if we got 6 million for him then he was or is clearly worth 6 million. Nothing to do with amazing sales techniques or brilliant business, it is simply called called supply and demand and recognising current and correct market values.

Back to the OP. At long last people are waking up to the fact that the new players are NO better than what we released or sold, or already have in stock. That is why they are struggling to hold down their place, or in most cases even get a game.

Potentially, they may have some merit, but as results are clearly demonstrating our first team is no better than last season in anyway.

Amazed that anyone rates Kean's signings at all. A few of us warned against getting all weak kneed and excited signing 2, 3 and 4 million pound journeymen, with zero experience in the PL. Many are now also slowly learning that our biggest signing in Dann is no better than Nelsen and I am not suprised at all that existing players are getting the nod over the newly signed superstars.

Which of Kean's signing has you so excited? You criticise SA's signings readily so I wil wait with interest your comments regarding new signings. Bruno...Anderson... DG won't play much ahead of Roberts or the Yak. Vuk and Pet? Hardly uprooted any trees have they? Rochina and Formica have contributed this season to our four defeats and 4 points gained, but did sweet nothing last year. Dann is finding it tough and is no better than Nelsen.

The Kean Out argument has got very tedious now. There are those that will continue to support him till the end. I look forward to and await that moment patiently.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

he can learn from pedersen. Discipline is his only strength in my opinion

The only thing any one will learn from Pedersen is how to jump out of tackles, hit the first defender with a corner and take throw in's that don't lead to anything.

[John]

If you compare last season and the players we have lost - Phil Jones and Jermaine Jones - it is very debatable whether our first eleven, and their replacements have made us stronger. I know he is public enemy number one however diouf, for example, was one of our best players at the start of last season, when we used to pick up points.

[BRFC1995]

If you compare last season and the players we have lost - Phil Jones and Jermaine Jones - it is very debatable whether our first eleven, and their replacements have made us stronger. I know he is public enemy number one however diouf, for example, was one of our best players at the start of last season, when we used to pick up points.

i miss those times so much.

have his signings made us stronger than september a year ago.......have they hell we are massively weaker.

[Sparky Marky]

West brom away diouf was fantastic last season. An absolute farce that we gave him money to leave.

[John]

I think some of the summer signings could come good, in time, but at the moment there is plenty of question marks.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Seems to me like its the same old style argument again, function vs beauty. I'd actually expect the stock answer of many on here to the players Kean has signed to be "good signings but Kean's using them wrongly". Kean thinks the only way to success should be the attractive way, and so do most on here it seems. Personally I don't.

Allardyce's record in the transfer market wasn't the best, but then he never had close to £20m to spend during any window unlike Kean. The players that Allardyce favoured (N'Zonzi, Pedersen, Emerton, Dunn, Diouf) are the type of players that can do certain specific jobs in functional, reasonably successful teams. They might not be pretty to watch but as I don't give a stuff about that they're the kind of players I like.

The opposite of that is the batch Kean has brought in. Formica, Petrovic, Rochina, Vukcevic, Goodwillie. Good footballers, good to watch when they've got the ball at their feet but when alls said and done basically a 2nd rate version of Arsenal. The 1st rate version of Arsenal has enough problems coping with the pace, tenacity and physicality of the premiership. What happens to the 2nd rate? They generally get chewed up and spat out.

Wich is what happened to Blackpool last season, is what is happening to Bolton this season and is exactly what is gonna happen to us unless some managerial genius comes in and discards them in favour of the old guard or finds a specific use for them that doesn't just consist of bits of decent skill and the occasional good passing move.

[47er]

Seems to me like its the same old style argument again, function vs beauty. I'd actually expect the stock answer of many on here to the players Kean has signed to be "good signings but Kean's using them wrongly". Kean thinks the only way to success should be the attractive way, and so do most on here it seems. Personally I don't.

Allardyce's record in the transfer market wasn't the best, but then he never had close to £20m to spend during any window unlike Kean. The players that Allardyce favoured (N'Zonzi, Pedersen, Emerton, Dunn, Diouf) are the type of players that can do certain specific jobs in functional, reasonably successful teams. They might not be pretty to watch but as I don't give a stuff about that they're the kind of players I like.

The opposite of that is the batch Kean has brought in. Formica, Petrovic, Rochina, Vukcevic, Goodwillie. Good footballers, good to watch when they've got the ball at their feet but when alls said and done basically a 2nd rate version of Arsenal. The 1st rate version of Arsenal has enough problems coping with the pace, tenacity and physicality of the premiership. What happens to the 2nd rate? They generally get chewed up and spat out.

Wich is what happened to Blackpool last season, is what is happening to Bolton this season and is exactly what is gonna happen to us unless some managerial genius comes in and discards them in favour of the old guard or finds a specific use for them that doesn't just consist of bits of decent skill and the occasional good passing move.

Blackpool were much better at it than we are though!

[joey_big_nose]

The signings themselves are okay - although I do have to seriously question the point in signing Vukcevic when we already had four players with the same sort of profile as him (Winger/Second Striker). It's the players we haven't signed which are the problems.

Stick a J Jones in the side and we would be half decent. A new right back and left back and we would be in much better shape. The failure to sign a midfield enforcer could easily relegate us.

[FourLaneBlue]

The only thing any one will learn from Pedersen is how to jump out of tackles, hit the first defender with a corner and take throw in's that don't lead to anything.

To be fair, that is three things.

[chris]

We are now 19th a game a head of both 20th and 18th, lets look at the contributionof the Kean signings this weekend and this is generally reflective of the season.

Formica rating 5: Well quite rightly lost his place, needs to step it up

Petrovic rating 2: Demoting Petrovic to a 2 as this guy is our Jones replacement and he runs and turns like the titantic.

Rochina rating 5: He's disapearing now, maybe he will just be used for weaker teams

Bruno rating 0: no comment

Goodwillie rating 4: Trys hard but no skill no pace, very difficult for him

Yakubu rating 6: Well who could have predicted it, oh wait everyone, but this is not Yak's fault he is playing in a side too weak and he is not a Dickov or Bellamy that works hard to make things happen. Hopefully still come good.

Simon rating 2: A 25 year old who can;t even get in the team ahead of an previously injured Goodwillie playing in his position.

Dann rating 6: Average score of a player playing ok, who said he was worth 14 million, 6m was a fair price.

Anderson rating -25: con

And to make things even better these players that need another 9 to 48 months to come good have replaced:

Phil Jones: Our 20 million star player

J Jones: The box to box midifilder that really made the difference last year

Emerton: An 8 years experienced pro in the PL

Diouf: One of our top performers in 2010

Kalinic: The club top goal scorer who was on a run of 3 goals in 4 games and then never/rarely started again.

So experienced proven players and replaced with unready, untested developing players.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

The problem is not the new signings. The new signings have talent and overall imo the squad is better than its current lowly place. This current squad talent wise is better than at least 6-8 other premiership squads despite the managements blind spot to CM and both full back positions

The problems are:

A chronic lack of fitness

The running down of the squad under the walkers

Little or no tactical nous from the “management” team

Work ethic

Little or no fight when the team goes down