[Archived] Venky's - Do You Support Them As Owners Of The Club?

[3rdpillar]

i can not support an organisation that has not got the knowledge or abilty to run the football club that i support.

[rog of the rovers]

Like it or not, but the club was going nowhere under the Walker Trust.

The money had gone, their interest had gone.

2008 Article about the impending sale

The fact Venkys took us out of the vicious cycle of having to beg steal and borrow whilst a 'group of suits' (Matthewman, Brown et al) let the club struggle on, whilst hiding behind the Walker name is enough reason for me to give them more time.

[broadsword]

The fact Venkys took us out of the vicious cycle of having to beg steal and borrow

so, they're actually putting their own money in, are they?

Don't think so.

[Gav]

Like it or not, but the club was going nowhere under the Walker Trust.

The money had gone, their interest had gone.

2008 Article about the impending sale

The fact Venkys took us out of the vicious cycle of having to beg steal and borrow whilst a 'group of suits' (Matthewman, Brown et al) let the club struggle on, whilst hiding behind the Walker name is enough reason for me to give them more time.

ALLEDGEDLY

The suits, and many local businesses with longstanding ties aka cashcows in some cases, have certainly had their noses put out of joint since the takeover. The alleged ensuing dirty tricks/smear campaign has been frankly out of order by all accounts. Im extremely surprised that the people on here who are quick to hammer venkys, are not as quick (silent even) when it comes to revealing the underhanded exploits of a few, that have been cut-off should we say.

I dont know the details, if I did Id name the lot of them, greedy *******s in my book.

[tomphil]

This is a difficult one to answer. Unlike Kean, where almost 100% of supporters are in agreement that his time is up and he has to go, I am inclined to give Venky's more time to redeem themselves and to make up for past mistakes.

On the one hand you have the outrageously bad communication, particularly in the early months of their reign, the haphazard approach to transfers, the unclear role of Jerome Anderson at the club, the strange sacking of John Jensen without even asking the manager and John Jensen's appointment in the first place even though he had never even met Kean.

In terms of the departures of Allardyce, McDonald, Williams, Finn, Pincher, Goodman and Matthewman amongst others, if Venky's wish to change the personnel at the club then that is entirely their decision which they are entitled to make after splashing out millions to buy the club. It's not their removal I was particularly opposed to, more the timing of it, the speed at which it was done and the complete and utter failure to replace them with people of any repute.

You have the First Team Coach assuming the responsibilities of both Allardyce and Neil McDonald, Leicester City's commercial director becoming 'Deputy Chief Executive' and somebody called Anthony Bloch who was Everton's assistant secretary wielding power at Ewood. In addition to this both Vineeth Rao and Simon Hunt have official positions on the board of directors, even though the club has never yet officially announced their appointments, who they are or what positions they hold at the club. The ever elusive Mahesh Gupta and Ghandi Babu are still yet to be seen at games despite their positions on the board.

In terms of transfer activity, which after all was the main reason the club was sold, so that Venky's could invest in the club, again is difficult. Whilst we have spent much more this summer than in the previous years combined, including signings like Scott Dann, Simon Vuckevic and Yakubu, both of whom are proven performers, and the emphasis being on young, talented players like Formica, Rochina, Slew and Petrovic, are to be praised. Yet at the same time you have suspicious signings like Myles Anderson and Bruno Ribeiro, neither of whom are anywhere near good enough for the first team, both of whom have agent fathers. It is also worth bearing in mind that net spending was minimal once the sales of people like Jones and Kalinic are considered, plus the wage savings achieved by letting circa 15 players leave and only bringing in 8.

Venky's stance with Kean again can be interpreted in two different ways. On the one hand you have a young British manager, highly thought of as a coach, being given an opportunity to prove himself at a Premier League club. How many other clubs would show such faith? Venky's refusal to dismiss Kean can be seen as an immense show of loyalty and patience to their man and a determination not to press the panic button and to believe in stability - all of these are traits many other clubs are severely lacking in. On the other hand you have a client of Kentaro, the same agency who brought Venky's to the club and brokered the sale, taking over following the sacking of his boss in suspicious circumstances. Not only was his appointment as permanent manager both naive and premature, but puts the future of the club in jeopardy. Venky's stubborn refusal to give him the sack leads to suggestions he has more influence than a mere manager and that they are content to see us relegated because they will not dispose of Kean. If they have been duped by Kentaro and Kean then what kind of business people are they?

So for me it's 50/50, although the longer they stick by the idiot Kean the more faith I have disappears.

After reading all that which is a cracking post and just about covers most things i really dont know how anyone cant be seriously suspicious of their motives. Its almost impossible to back them. I wonder what kind of salary Vineeth and the 2 other indians on the board are drawing from the club and where is it going exactly ?

[Steve Moss]

I voted "not sure". If we're truly in a "don't support Venkys" mode, then there is no hope. We might as well throw in the towel and start watching American football.

Venkys has done a few things which indicate their hearts are in the right place and they might be learning. The Prince's Trust was a good move. So was pitching a fit over Jones. If Kentaro and Anderson are truly out that would also be a positive.

In fairness, though, Venkys has gotten far more wrong than right. Their biggest mistake is Kean. There is no spinning the points board. We are relegation bound under his management and whether we fix the internal workings of the club or not hardly matters if we're tumbling down the leagues. If Venkys wakes up, sacks Kean, appointments a competent experienced manager (NOT Grant) then our PL position can be salvaged and we can hope Venkys will use the breathing space to clean up a problem or three.

In short, I'm biting my tongue and am willing to give Venkys more time, mostly because they are the only hope of getting the Rovers back on track and I'm feeling desperate. It may be a bit of a Hail Mary, but it's all we've got at this point.

[Bluemonday BRFC]

"First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me."

- Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

The fact of the matter is the more people that sit on the fence, and reserve judgement, the graver the situation becomes. Venkys are consitently destroying our club. We can continue blaming Kean, or turn our attention to what is in reality the core of the problem. We want our Rovers back.

[T4E]

Nope. For the reasons outlined in "The underlying problems" thread. It doesn't stack up and won't until they address those issues, put a proper structure in place as outlined by Den in that thread and sort out the manager situation.

Den's thread is exactly why I do support them as owners. Simply put, their job isn't that difficult. You can sustain owners that know nothing about football in the Premier League, as long as the right people are in place. They need the support and guidance to get the right structure in place. I'm happy with their vision but they have no idea how to accomplish it. If Venkys had kept Sam and JW I think we'd all be pretty happy.

They seem to be getting some decent people in place - the next stage is the manager. He IS in a job that is difficult and is completely out of his depth. Sack him now and appoint an O'Neill, Curbishley or Hughes and Venkys will retain my support. If they carry on much longer with the cretin in charge and my support will decrease accordingly.

[snatchymcsnatch]

Initially I thought I would reserve judgement for now as I thought that they might actually have Rovers interests at heart, but everything in my heart tells me that these these people do not have the best interests of the club at heart, and by "best interests" I mean success and entertainment on the pitch - DO THEY HECK AS LIKE - THEY WANT TO MAKE A PROFIT - but OK who doesn't?

These guys ARE NOT STUPID, despite how it might look, - they are astute business people (I know that's hard to believe) and I think they are trying to pull the wool over everyones eyes and there have been FAR TOO MANY fishy (ALLEGED) goings on for them all to be explained away. Anderson (Both Myles and Jerome), Kentaro, Kean (WTF seriously now????!?), John Williams leaving, payments to agents, Ribeiro (again what????), John Jensen.

They must think we're THICK.

I'm a great believer in Occams Razor - the simplest explanation is more than likely the correct one - someone has told them it would be a good idea to buy a football club to make a quick buck - that's exactly what they're doing and they are hiding behind a veil of very poorly disguised bull. Either that or Belaji and Wotsisface wanted the status of owning a Premier League Football club - even worse.

Why did they get rid of Allardyce and Williams? - because they had a pair of BALLS on them. Now the the only ones left in their way are us fans, the rest of them are puppets with little or no experience (see Kean,S). As far this theory of - "why would they screw us over - it would damage the Venkys brand" - piffle. Who would ACTUALLY CARE what Venkys did to rovers in FIVE YEARS TIME? No one, apart from us, is the answer.

I never thought I would say this but I would rather us have had a few more seasons defying the odds in the Premier League and not having two beans to rub together. That actually made me PROUD to be a Rover. At least if we had gone down with no money we would have gone down with dignity - now, unless we get some STRAIGHT ANSWERS AND ACTIONS - QUICK - we're heading in the same direction, but our dignity is going down with it - IF that is what happens - it is UNFORGIVEABLE.

I am reluctant to end that with VENKYS OUT because where would that leave us? I think the damage might have already been done.

Cheers Venkys - shove your chickens where the sun don't shine because I've had enough of you. Shape up or shove off and let someone else try and repair this wreck you've created.

[bob fleming]

Den's thread is exactly why I do support them as owners. Simply put, their job isn't that difficult. You can sustain owners that know nothing about football in the Premier League, as long as the right people are in place. They need the support and guidance to get the right structure in place. I'm happy with their vision but they have no idea how to accomplish it. If Venkys had kept Sam and JW I think we'd all be pretty happy.

They seem to be getting some decent people in place - the next stage is the manager. He IS in a job that is difficult and is completely out of his depth. Sack him now and appoint an O'Neill, Curbishley or Hughes and Venkys will retain my support. If they carry on much longer with the cretin in charge and my support will decrease accordingly.

If it's not that difficult then they're certainly making it look that way T4E.

Now is the time for them to make some good decisions (they're due) - otherwise, as you say, they'll be more "no" votes pretty soon. I know what you're saying but as things stand it just doesn't stack up.

[Mattyblue]

Rog of the Rovers, can you explain how a net spend of minus 8 million this summer is a departure from the Trust approach?

[yoda]

Like it or not, but the club was going nowhere under the Walker Trust.

The money had gone, their interest had gone.

2008 Article about the impending sale

The fact Venkys took us out of the vicious cycle of having to beg steal and borrow whilst a 'group of suits' (Matthewman, Brown et al) let the club struggle on, whilst hiding behind the Walker name is enough reason for me to give them more time.

And the current situation is preferable?

I think not

[T4E]

Agreed Bob, they've made a hash of it.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, if we didn't have them at the club we would have someone else, possibly an Ali Syed (who no one would want) or a Walker Trust (who would split opinion). Better the devil you know. Football club owners are hard to come by, decent DoFs or managers are easier. I'd rather we concentrated on that and just left Venkys to sign the cheques.

[Miker]

I was willing to give them a chance from the beginning and was encouraged by what they tried to before the transfer window closed, but my concern was always whether or not Kean was good enough, and whether or not they would sack him if he wasn't.

He has now shown himself to be completely out of his depth, our club is now in dire straits as a result, yet still no action... Therefore all support for Venky's is now gone. I am no longer confident they can do the right thing.

[bob fleming]

Agreed Bob, they've made a hash of it.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, if we didn't have them at the club we would have someone else, possibly an Ali Syed (who no one would want) or a Walker Trust (who would split opinion). Better the devil you know. Football club owners are hard to come by, decent DoFs or managers are easier. I'd rather we concentrated on that and just left Venkys to sign the cheques.

I've amended the last bit...

Football club owners are hard to come by, decent DoFs or managers are easier. I'd rather Venky's concentrated on getting the right people in place to run the club from Ewood, with the priority being an experienced Manager, and they just concentrated on signing the cheques.

[Bluemonday BRFC]

I've amended the last bit...

Football club owners are hard to come by, decent DoFs or managers are easier. I'd rather Venky's concentrated on getting the right people in place to run the club from Ewood, with the priority being an experienced Manager, and they just concentrated on signing the cheques.

...All of that was already in place. We had an experienced manager, and we had great backroom staff. We were moving in the right direction. They already had the option of just signing the cheques and progressing which would have proved mutually benefitial. The series of choices the new owners had avalible, and the decisions they have taken, show either incompetance or other intentions which will inevitably be detrimental to Blackburn Rovers.

[AllRoverAsia]

The long list of lies and deceit that have gone on under the Venky watch are well covered on this MB on this and other threads.

I do not buy into them being naive. They are astute business people who knew exactly what they were doing when they bought Rovers and know what they are doing now.

We are the stupid ones if we think that Venkys are just silly foreigners led astray by 'bad' people.

The bought knowing that they would have a prized asset on their hands - Phil Jones - and they cashed that chip at an early oportunity.

Strange how the Bank then called in a loan - very convenient - which meant less funds available from the Jones transfer to buy with.

Kean - appointed by Venkys - seemed to deliberately alienate Kalinic and the end result was more funds to Venkys.

The list goes on and on and they all end up at Venkys door.

Their relationship with Kean is baffling. How could someone, and with no disrespect to Kean, a non-entity so suddenly become so indespensible to the Venky cause? A direct link from Manager to Owners reporting on all aspects of the Club - those are Kean's own words.

They say that they are currently discussing a 'Plan' - I have no doubt that it will be one that still includes Kean.

The only way they can change my mind is to prove me wrong and get shut of Kean now. A decision to sack Kean should be realtively simple for them if it is based just on football matters.

I am convinced that they will not - Therefore, for now at least, I cannot support Venkys.

A small point maybe but I find their and Kean's frequent use of the word 'family' quite sickening. Do they really think that we buy into that whilst allowing them to get away with destroying Rovers.

It's just wishful thinking. Venkys own us and aren't going anywhere soon and we and Rovers are stuffed.

Addon: I have just realised that I have no problem with those who support the Owners or those who have voted to give them more time. The situation we and Rovers have found ouselves in is so worrying and complex that I do think all input is valid and needed. I have never before in over 50 years of supporting Rovers felt in such despair about our future and lacked so much trust in our leaders.

[tony gale's mic]

We were headed for our fifth top 10 finish in six years under the Trust, had a great management team in place from dugout to boardroom, and our academy had just produced our most exciting crop of youngsters in years, meaning the current model was more than sustainable for a good few more years yet as the proceeds from those players alone could have driven it.

We were reaching our maximum potential under the Trust. If people are saying we were destined for relegation or going nowhere they literally haven't a clue.

I can understand why people might pick "give them more time" option in this poll (I personally picked the "no" option though), but I cannot understand why people would pick the "yes" option when EVERYTHING they've done so far has been a disaster.

Oh and while I'm pleased to see the Prince's Trust sponsor on our shirts, that was as a result of their bungling and incompetence when it came to finding a commercial sponsor. NOT because they wanted a charity sponsor from the off which would have been an altogether different matter. If you see it as a positive then you've been sucked into their spin.

[Amo]

Rog of the Rovers, can you explain how a net spend of minus 8 million this summer is a departure from the Trust approach?

Do we know the real figures?

The Jones money was used to pay off Barclays, allegedly.

We then got a further £6m for Kalinic.

This summer, we spent:

£8m - Dann

£2m - Vukcevic

£2.5m - Petrovic

£2m - Yakubu

£2.8m - Goodwillie

£1m - Slew

^ So where did that come from, if the Jones money was taken out the pot?

[Mattyblue]

It's hard to know. Did ALL the Jones money go to the bank? Of course, all these deals are spread.

Did we ever get any definitve answer to what actually went on?

[chris]

We were headed for our fifth top 10 finish in six years under the Trust, had a great management team in place from dugout to boardroom, and our academy had just produced our most exciting crop of youngsters in years, meaning the current model was more than sustainable for a good few more years yet as the proceeds from those players alone could have driven it.

We were reaching our maximum potential under the Trust. If people are saying we were destined for relegation or going nowhere they literally haven't a clue.

So where were we going under the trust?

Another 10th place finish and then sell your best players and come 14th and so on and so on.

Sam would have left eventually, hw was even thinking about it 2010 summer.

Even JW himself said that we needed investment and we couldn't last long term under the walkers trust you can't ignore this fact.

In 2008 The Trust reduced their cash injections.

[Amo]

It's hard to know. Did ALL the Jones money go to the bank? Of course, all these deals are spread.

Did we ever get any definitve answer to what actually went on?

Well, either way, I'm not too perturbed by Venky's spending (or lack thereof).

I'd much prefer the prudent approach than doing a Pompey or Leeds and spending they don't have for short-term success.

Even when John Williams said we were no longer a "selling club" it was essentially b*llocks, because we still had to sell our best players to have any chance of a transfer kitty (as the Trust weren't willing to dig into their own pockets). I don't mind Venky's taking a similar approach, provided they provide auxiliary funds where needed, i.e. the kind of backing Hughes failed to receive whilst unearthing gem after gem. That money could go a looooong way in the right hands, which is why Venky's underlying problem comes back to their choice of manager.

[den]

I fail to see what bearing the trust has, on whether you back Venky's.

The poll question is a little obtuse. I reckon we might all agree that we don't back them over their dealings to date, but would do if they actually got their act together PDQ. The real question is - do we think they will?

[Mattyblue]

Well, either way, I'm not too perturbed by Venky's spending (or lack thereof).

I'd much prefer the prudent approach than doing a Pompey or Leeds and spending they don't have for short-term success.

Even when John Williams said we were no longer a "selling club" it was essentially b*llocks, because we still had to sell our best players to have any chance of a transfer kitty (as the Trust weren't willing to dig into their own pockets). I don't mind Venky's taking a similar approach, provided they provide auxiliary funds where needed, i.e. the kind of backing Hughes failed to receive whilst unearthing gem after gem. That money could go a looooong way in the right hands, which is why Venky's underlying problem comes back to their choice of manager.

I agre entirely, lets face it, Venky's cannot compete with the billionaires, it is their (and their proxy) constant stream of BS about 'biggest budget this club has seen' and so on that pushes my buttons.

[tony gale's mic]

So where were we going under the trust?

Another 10th place finish and then sell your best players and come 14th and so on and so on.

Sam would have left eventually, hw was even thinking about it 2010 summer.

Even JW himself said that we needed investment and we couldn't last long term under the walkers trust you can't ignore this fact.

In 2008 The Trust reduced their cash injections.

The only time we finished below 10th in the previous five years was when JW made the rare mistake in hiring Ince. In that time we sold plenty of good players.

Stop using the word INVESTMENT when throwing money at a cause where you'll be making a loss isn't investment at all. It's benefaction, and benefactors are rare as hens teeth. How many people out there do you think want to throw money at Blackburn Rovers and make a loss? Even the Sheikhs at Manchester City have an ulterior motive - to help put Abu Dhabi on the map.

Even if Sam left, I would have trusted JW to have made a good choice in appointing a successor. Apart from Ince, Hughes Allardyce and Souness were all excellent choices for the situation we were in. Furthermore the scouting network in place at our club which helped us pick up such good bargains would still would have been in place, and we had plenty of saleable assets to raise funds.

Additionally we would have been in line with UEFAs new financial fair play rules, when the likes of Stoke would have started to feel the pinch.