[Archived] BRFC vs. Chelsea Protest Details

[Glenn]

Here's a hypothetical question based around his replacement. What if we had somebody top-notch lined up, but contractually he couldn't start until next season. Do we get rid of Kean and take on somebody who was willing to have a short term contract (i.e. a lesser candidate than the usual Hughes/O'Neill/Ancelotti options, more a Tony Parkes option). Would an average short term manager be able to do enough to keep us up (assuming SK can't) until the big guns arrive ?

[Rovers_786]

Here's a hypothetical question based around his replacement. What if we had somebody top-notch lined up, but contractually he couldn't start until next season. Do we get rid of Kean and take on somebody who was willing to have a short term contract (i.e. a lesser candidate than the usual Hughes/O'Neill/Ancelotti options, more a Tony Parkes option). Would an average short term manager be able to do enough to keep us up (assuming SK can't) until the big guns arrive ?

Good Question, I would give the role to Tony Parkes or give a manager a short term deal who is out of work.

Job done and everyone happy.

[glen9mullan]

Here's a hypothetical question based around his replacement. What if we had somebody top-notch lined up, but contractually he couldn't start until next season. Do we get rid of Kean and take on somebody who was willing to have a short term contract (i.e. a lesser candidate than the usual Hughes/O'Neill/Ancelotti options, more a Tony Parkes option). Would an average short term manager be able to do enough to keep us up (assuming SK can't) until the big guns arrive ?

Simples the Manager in question with the clause is Ancelotti and it is 100% they have been speaking with him. The clause states he cannot manage in the Premiership for 12 months, however when this was put in tbh, it was not aimed at teams like Blackburn and I'm pretty sure Rovers are looking at what can be done to have that removed.

Either way, if they can't get it done, move on and get someone else because Kean needs to go NOW, and I don't think we could get anyone worse if im being honest.

[Miker]

Here's a hypothetical question based around his replacement. What if we had somebody top-notch lined up, but contractually he couldn't start until next season. Do we get rid of Kean and take on somebody who was willing to have a short term contract (i.e. a lesser candidate than the usual Hughes/O'Neill/Ancelotti options, more a Tony Parkes option). Would an average short term manager be able to do enough to keep us up (assuming SK can't) until the big guns arrive ?

Not necessarily. It's something I've been a bit split in opinion on because as I said in previous posts, we've seen improvements under Kean in the last few games. I'm therefore no longer 100% convinced that he is incapable of improving further and obtaining the results we need and likewise I am not 100% convinced that any other manager that comes in would be capable of doing the same.

I think there's a lot of people who are too stuck in the "Kean Out"/"Venkys Out" mindset now and are unable to take a step back and think a bit more rationally about the situation. But, if you were to do that all you would do is fall into a mindset of complete uncertainty, as all you'd be looking at is one risk vs another. That's where I'm at now anyway.

That's the issue Venky's no doubt now face, and I don't envy them the situation, but they put themselves into it by failing to install a new, capable manager at the start of the season and stupidly rewarding Kean with a 3-year contract that was completely undeserved. Not to mention their failure to make appropriate player acquisitions.

They took a gamble that hasn't worked, they need to take appropriate action now to fix it. To be fair, they've made a couple of moves to fix the situation, including appointing Paul Clement as assistant manager. Is it enough though?

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Here's a hypothetical question based around his replacement. What if we had somebody top-notch lined up, but contractually he couldn't start until next season. Do we get rid of Kean and take on somebody who was willing to have a short term contract (i.e. a lesser candidate than the usual Hughes/O'Neill/Ancelotti options, more a Tony Parkes option). Would an average short term manager be able to do enough to keep us up (assuming SK can't) until the big guns arrive ?

That's very hypothetical- Would any top notch manager want to take us next year if we were relegated?

[Silittl]

Guys just for your info the flyover has been changed to 15:05 in order to avoid minutes silence.

[Roversider]

So with that in mind the Majority want Kean as Manager? or If we go down they are not bothered?

What is the alternative to protests?

If we had the old board and any other owners on the planet, We would never have had to protest as Steve Kean's results would have chosen his destiny. We are at that stage were points are not having an impact on the owners decision to keep the Manager, so therefore they seem to either not understand the reprecussions, or don't care.

People moan about the protests but have to date offered no alternative, apart from sit and pray cross everything you have and hope that the owners see sense, or Steve Kean manages to do something which he has not yet done in his previous 31 games.

1. How many changes will he make today, as he has not picked the same team twice since he got the job.

2. We have gone 16 matches without a clea sheet, will today be number 17? If it is will we be able to score 2 goals plus as a minimum to get a draw or win?

3. How far cut adrift will we be should we fail to win today, going into the international break?

4.With 6 on paper easier fixtures to come after this game, if Kean is still here and does not muster many points from them will anyone want the job at Rovers? and if they do will they be able to achieve another great escape?

I had a good chat with you the other day in person (Which is always nice) and you have some good balanced views, but one thing you have not offered or anyone else to that matter, is an alternative or a reason why Kean should be the Manager of Blackburn Rovers

Actually Glenn, I think the reason Kean should stay for now is because the team are playing for him and the performances have yet to falter. I don't buy the sack Kean and we will magically get results argument. If he goes we will have more turmoil as a new manager comes in. My timescale is the next half dozen games, you might think that is too long but I don't.

There is the aspect of injuries and suspensions that have contributed to the churn and also the myriad of new faces coming into the Premiership who need time to settle.

How far adrift we will be depends on results and not just for Rovers. Ask the 'Latics fans or Wanderers fans how confident they feel at the moment.

The biggest reason to keep Kean is that I don't see another available manager in the wings that I would prefer and who would be able to work effectively in the structure of the Rovers. A structure, which in fairness is mirrored at a number of other clubs in the Premiership and Europe.

The protest is, in essence, negative and doesn't put forward a constructive way forward. Sacking Kean as the main basis needs to recognise the impact of change for change sake. My view is that we haven't hit the point where that is more productive than keeping with Kean. As for would another manager come? Never been a problem anywhere else so that is not a valid argument. Would they be good enough, different thing altogether.

This is a learning experience for the Manager and the Owners. I remain optimistic but I have no issue with other people having a different opinion.

I have to say well done to Glenn and Simon for keeping the demonstrations orderly so far, that gives a lot more credibility to the argument. Hope everyone taking part recognises the sacrifices that Glenn and co. have had to take to front up the demos and don't let him down with any bad behaviour.

Off to Ewood now, come on Rovers!

[AllRoverAsia]

Guys just for your info the flyover has been changed to 15:05 in order to avoid minutes silence.

How long will it be around Ewood for? Will it circle Ewood so that all in the ground get to see it.

[Roversider]

did every libyan who was against gadaffi protest before the revolutiion?? i will ask you what all the anti protest folk wont answer ,what good have the venkys brought to our club??

if these peaceful protests dont work then they need turning up a notch or two!

To compare the two situations is crass, the Libyans would have been tortured and murdered. The owners are happy to let demonstrations go on inside the ground. The Walkers Trust wanted to sell and chose Venkys after a whole heap of investigations. Whether they do good in the long-term needs to be judged in a few years time.

Don't even get into a world where you think the protests should not remain peaceful as you suggest in your last line.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Not necessarily. It's something I've been a bit split in opinion on because as I said in previous posts, we've seen improvements under Kean in the last few games. I'm therefore no longer 100% convinced that he is incapable of improving further and obtaining the results we need and likewise I am not 100% convinced that any other manager that comes in would be capable of doing the same.

I think there's a lot of people who are too stuck in the "Kean Out"/"Venkys Out" mindset now and are unable to take a step back and think a bit more rationally about the situation. But, if you were to do that all you would do is fall into a mindset of complete uncertainty, as all you'd be looking at is one risk vs another. That's where I'm at now anyway.

That's the issue Venky's no doubt now face, and I don't envy them the situation, but they put themselves into it by failing to install a new, capable manager at the start of the season and stupidly rewarding Kean with a 3-year contract that was completely undeserved. Not to mention their failure to make appropriate player acquisitions.

They took a gamble that hasn't worked, they need to take appropriate action now to fix it. To be fair, they've made a couple of moves to fix the situation, including appointing Paul Clement as assistant manager. Is it enough though?

Some valid points regarding mindsets. I don't know whether others would agree but if we win or play well today, I think the protests should be put on hold for a couple of games.

Issue a statement along the lines of: As supporters of BRFC we feel we have made our point regarding the position of Steve Kean as Rovers manager. As the owners have stated that his tenure will be decided on results, we will wait for a couple of matches to see if results improve. Should they not and the owners do not react to continued poor results. We will resume the campaign with renewed vigour.

This way, if he turns the next few games around, the protest does not die a death. it also places the focus firmly on the owners should results remain as bad. The next set of protests should then gather more momentum and bigger numbers.

Bigger picture and all that.

[den]

Some valid points regarding mindsets. I don't know whether others would agree but if we win or play well today, I think the protests should be put on hold for a couple of games.

So when we win you want to keep him, then when we lose you want to sack him? Or is it more when we win we give him more time and when we lose we give him more time?

That's very muddled thinking WWWM. You know, we've had almost a year of him and he's there to be judged. You can see which way we're going. As Simon Garner said in today's LT, it's fair enough to give managers time, but there has to be a tipping point. For me, it's a no brainer - there are plenty of better managers than Steve Kean out there, let's go and get one.

[yoda]

Some valid points regarding mindsets. I don't know whether others would agree but if we win or play well today, I think the protests should be put on hold for a couple of games.

Issue a statement along the lines of: As supporters of BRFC we feel we have made our point regarding the position of Steve Kean as Rovers manager. As the owners have stated that his tenure will be decided on results, we will wait for a couple of matches to see if results improve. Should they not and the owners do not react to continued poor results. We will resume the campaign with renewed vigour.

This way, if he turns the next few games around, the protest does not die a death. it also places the focus firmly on the owners should results remain as bad. The next set of protests should then gather more momentum and bigger numbers.

Bigger picture and all that.

There's a chance the bigger picture will be defined today, another defeat and we are starting to get adrift. Then we have the situation of will another manager take the role in a months time when we would be practically doomed.

How does the big picture look then, relegated, clueless owners and not enough money?

[PAFELL]

Here's a hypothetical question based around his replacement. What if we had somebody top-notch lined up, but contractually he couldn't start until next season. Do we get rid of Kean and take on somebody who was willing to have a short term contract (i.e. a lesser candidate than the usual Hughes/O'Neill/Ancelotti options, more a Tony Parkes option). Would an average short term manager be able to do enough to keep us up (assuming SK can't) until the big guns arrive ?

Hypothetically - YES.

Reason - Kean has shown he is not up to the task. Relegation will result if things continue the way they have been going.

If a top notch replacement has been lined up - they may change their minds if the are having to start the job from the championship.

Kean has to go. What Tony Parkes type, options are there?

[Silittl]

It will be circling ground for 15 min

[PAFELL]

I heard there is to be a minutes silence at Ewood today - is this correct?

If so I sincerely hope this plane fly over is not done then. If that happened, the protest would be a disaster. It would end there and then. As all credibility would be gone. It would back fire on the protestors etc etc.

[cn174]

I heard there is to be a minutes silence at Ewood today - is this correct?

If so I sincerely hope this plane fly over is not done then. If that happened, the protest would be a disaster. It would end there and then. As all credibility would be gone. It would back fire on the protestors etc etc.

Read above, the plane has been changed to 15:05

[ABBEY]

To compare the two situations is crass, the Libyans would have been tortured and murdered. The owners are happy to let demonstrations go on inside the ground. The Walkers Trust wanted to sell and chose Venkys after a whole heap of investigations. Whether they do good in the long-term needs to be judged in a few years time.

Don't even get into a world where you think the protests should not remain peaceful as you suggest in your last line.

Kean is torturing us and the venkys murdering us!!! Judged in a few years time? There won't be a rovers then if they stay!

[Steve Moss]

Chris on your point about the message in the plane banner. Fully appreciate your point. The problem we had was time and I put it out there as to what people wanted. The majority ruled Steve Kean Out! We're also advised to keep it simple to make effective. I did try and change the wording yesterday. I am waiting for a phone call to see whether it has been done

Most people say they want Steve Kean out, Blowing a balloon up is an easy way to show ur frustration, It means you dnt have to be at ewood an hour before KO, it means if you are not one for staying behind you can still do your bit.

Lets get these chants delivering the clear messages

"You can take our banners but want Kean out"

"You can **** *** Venkys if you dnt sack Kean"

"Venkys sort it out"

"No surrender to the Banner Police"

"We support the players but want Kean out"

"We'll still be here when your gone"

"You can **** Off Kean and take Kentaro too"

Whether on a plane banner or a ballon, short and simple is better.

Too many words clutters up the surface space and reduces the font, making it more difficult to read.

Too many words also cause a problem in that as the surface rotates, such as with a round ballon, it can't be read.

I recommend sticking with "Kean Out". Short and to the point.

What I do know is that posting anything on this message board that is not vehemently anti-Kean always collects a response that is frequently more emotion than logic.

Basing one's opposition on the league table or Kean's points per game (over career, last season or this season) is not emotional thinking. It is cold, hard fact.

Basing one's lack of opposition on an opinion that the players are playing for him or that we are allegedly getting better is emotional thinking. Just because you believe it true does not make it so, and even if true it doesn't matter how well they play. The only thing that counts are points. If we aren't getting them something has to change.

Count the number of fans in the ground at the previous games and how many have demonstrated and I think you will see the balance in numbers. If you want to call anyone who has a different opinion apathetic then that is your right.

Isn't there an article that attendance is 8% down this season? Voting with one's feet is a form of protest also.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

So when we win you want to keep him, then when we lose you want to sack him? Or is it more when we win we give him more time and when we lose we give him more time?

That's very muddled thinking WWWM. You know, we've had almost a year of him and he's there to be judged. You can see which way we're going. As Simon Garner said in today's LT, it's fair enough to give managers time, but there has to be a tipping point. For me, it's a no brainer - there are plenty of better managers than Steve Kean out there, let's go and get one.

Not muddled at all Den. I have stated, as have many others that Kean should be given longer IF he starts to turn it around. Results have not improved, performances have to some extent. Don't get me wrong, I want him out and have attended the protests to date.

Do you think the protests would maintain support should we start winning consistently under Kean?

[Miker]

That's very muddled thinking WWWM. You know, we've had almost a year of him and he's there to be judged. You can see which way we're going. As Simon Garner said in today's LT, it's fair enough to give managers time, but there has to be a tipping point. For me, it's a no brainer - there are plenty of better managers than Steve Kean out there, let's go and get one.

The issue for me isn't whether or not there are better managers out there - that's a given. The issue for me is whether or not they can avoid relegation if given the chance. A new manager could have a honeymoon period and start picking up points, or they might need time to get a hang of things: time which we can't afford to give.

I genuinely think that Kean has got a grasp on the team now, which I couldn't say about a month ago. The question for me is whether or not that's enough. Recent results, suggest no, BUT not with the degree of certainty that I'd like.

[Paul]

Here's a hypothetical question based around his replacement. What if we had somebody top-notch lined up, but contractually he couldn't start until next season. Do we get rid of Kean and take on somebody who was willing to have a short term contract (i.e. a lesser candidate than the usual Hughes/O'Neill/Ancelotti options, more a Tony Parkes option).

A reasonable way to approach things until we get to this bit..........

Would an average short term manager be able to do enough to keep us up (assuming SK can't) until the big guns arrive ?

No. We need a miracle worker. The depth of trouble we are in is almost beyond saving. Lose against Wigan and Stoke and the game is up. IF Kean is going we need a replacement of the highest quality who will take advantage of the two week break to drill the side into a unit capable of three points at Wigan and a draw at The Britannia.

[Al]

Actually Glenn, I think the reason Kean should stay for now is because the team are playing for him and the performances have yet to falter. I don't buy the sack Kean and we will magically get results argument. If he goes we will have more turmoil as a new manager comes in. My timescale is the next half dozen games, you might think that is too long but I don't.

There is the aspect of injuries and suspensions that have contributed to the churn and also the myriad of new faces coming into the Premiership who need time to settle.

How far adrift we will be depends on results and not just for Rovers. Ask the 'Latics fans or Wanderers fans how confident they feel at the moment.

The biggest reason to keep Kean is that I don't see another available manager in the wings that I would prefer and who would be able to work effectively in the structure of the Rovers. A structure, which in fairness is mirrored at a number of other clubs in the Premiership and Europe.

The protest is, in essence, negative and doesn't put forward a constructive way forward. Sacking Kean as the main basis needs to recognise the impact of change for change sake. My view is that we haven't hit the point where that is more productive than keeping with Kean. As for would another manager come? Never been a problem anywhere else so that is not a valid argument. Would they be good enough, different thing altogether.

This is a learning experience for the Manager and the Owners. I remain optimistic but I have no issue with other people having a different opinion.

I have to say well done to Glenn and Simon for keeping the demonstrations orderly so far, that gives a lot more credibility to the argument. Hope everyone taking part recognises the sacrifices that Glenn and co. have had to take to front up the demos and don't let him down with any bad behaviour.

Off to Ewood now, come on Rovers!

If we cannot get a top manager until the end of the season (and I see no reason why we can't if he gets a decent wage and some money for transfers in January) maybe Steve Clement could do a caretaker job as perfomances improved when he arrived. Without Coco to report to he may do a decent job. Couldn't do any worse.

EDIT - Spelling error.

[Miker]

No. We need a miracle worker. The depth of trouble we are in is almost beyond saving. Lose against Wigan and Stoke and the game is up. IF Kean is going we need a replacement of the highest quality who will take advantage of the two week break to drill the side into a unit capable of three points at Wigan and a draw at The Britannia.

Spot on, this is my view as well. If we're potting Kean we need a manager that can almost guarantee us results if appointed.

[cravenblue]

What is the minutes silence for?

[Al]

To compare the two situations is crass, the Libyans would have been tortured and murdered. The owners are happy to let demonstrations go on inside the ground. The Walkers Trust wanted to sell and chose Venkys after a whole heap of investigations. Whether they do good in the long-term needs to be judged in a few years time.Don't even get into a world where you think the protests should not remain peaceful as you suggest in your last line.

a) After the match when the Venkys won't see them.

First it was 3 months. Then it was the end of last season. Then it was after the transfer window. Then it was 12 matches and now it is a few years. We will be losing at home to Stanley by then.

I may have missed a few deadlines. Sorry for that!