[Archived] how have the venkys improved us ?

[Rovers_786]

Let's face it, Venky's are the problem. They have no knowledge of football so they sack those who have in order to save money: Allardyce, John Williams, Tom Finn. Kean is a failure but Venky's appointed him and are reluctant to sack him because of the pay off it will trigger, even though this will be modest by Premiership standards. Their penny pinching approach will cost the club and its fans dear. Any consolation in seeing them lose money on their investment will be scant.

Fans should now direct their protests against Venky's. They urgently need to hire some managerial talent at all levels if Rovers are to survive in the Premiership.

[Pedro]

Staggered at that one Pedro.

Why are you staggered Den? I'm not a big fan of either of the Dioufs, Niko "future of Croatian football" Kalinic, Herald "the next Patric Viera" Goulon and Amime "the other next Patric Viera" Liganzi and I genuinely think that the players signed since the Venkys took over are of much better quality, better thought out than before (you can add Jermaine Jones to that previous list and the theory behind Santa Cruz was there too) and certainly have better potential and resale values. Credit where it is due though, even though they rarely come up to scratch these days we have scraped a good season out of Givet, Salgado and Nzonzi which were also big Sam signings.

[AllRoverAsia]

WOW

[rebelmswar]

Why are you staggered Den? I'm not a big fan of either of the Dioufs, Niko "future of Croatian football" Kalinic, Herald "the next Patric Viera" Goulon and Amime "the other next Patric Viera" Liganzi and I genuinely think that the players signed since the Venkys took over are of much better quality, better thought out than before (you can add Jermaine Jones to that previous list and the theory behind Santa Cruz was there too) and certainly have better potential and resale values. Credit where it is due though, even though they rarely come up to scratch these days we have scraped a good season out of Givet, Salgado and Nzonzi which were also big Sam signings.

With the amount of wad that was spent compared to the previous, one would hope for a better return.

IMO.

[Pedro]

With the amount of wad that was spent compared to the previous, one would hope for a better return.

IMO.

...and that extra wad is one of the very few improvements that I mentioned in my original post

Regardles, the negatives far outweigh the few positives.

[rebelmswar]

...and that extra wad is one of the very few improvements that I mentioned in my original post

Regardles, the negatives far outweigh the few positives.

And the complete pilfering of it is why that excuse for a positive holds less water than a gut shot toad.

Jones money et all (is that how it is spelled? spelt? )

The only positive I have seen thus far from anything that has happened is Keans breathalyzer reading.

[92er]

And the complete pilfering of it is why that excuse for a positive holds less water than a gut shot toad.

Jones money et all (is that how it is spelled? spelt? )

The only positive I have seen thus far from anything that has happened is Keans breathalyzer reading.

et al.

[47er]

I'll put my neck on the line and say there are a few positives amongst the mess.

1.We were only just staying above water under the trust who simply didn't invest in us for years. We were undeniably a selling club who didn't reinvest - regardless of us being promised that we would be a "trading club" we were saddled with £20m of debt which constantly needed "servicing" (aka selling your best players). Nobody can argue that we fought hard to keep hold of Jones and managed to fend off interest in Samba - would we have even bothered under the previous regime or would we have replaced Jones with a big money signing?

Also, along similar lines to above, we were potentially heading for bigger trouble had that dodgy bloke who took over Racing Santander somehow managed to purchase us - who knows, if the trust wanted out at any cost and the Venkys didn't come along would they have sold to him and what would have happened??. You can't rely on the comical fit and proper test - ask Birmingham and Man City about that one.

2.Our signings have improved to a certain degree (The new Chris Smalling and the new Dennis Irwin aside)in that we have signed players such as Formica, Rochina, Dann, Vuckevic and Yakubu who have definite class and Goodwillie is also well regarded and has potential - a big step up from Liganzi and that big weird French thing who's name escapes me. Some might say that we haven't reinvested all of the Kalinic and Jones money, but I think that is a stupid statement and would rather bide our time and search out a quality young player than fire £10million Spurs' way for an ageing Peter Crouch etc.

Here's the bit where the likely lads will really try to flame me;

3.Like thousands of Bolton and Newcastle fans, I'm personally also glad big Sam's football doesn't grace the sky above the pitch anymore because I was at the point of packing it in having to sit through that. Also, he simply didn't want to manage us either and thought he was worthy of much better - we talk about delusions of grandeur with Kean but good old Big Sam had his moments too "Real Madrid, Inter Milan, England manager etc. "

Regardless of how some may package it in terms of "we'd definitely still be a Premier League club" with him in charge I view that as similar to living off bread and water to survive, or just settling for an ugly wife because they have the same parts as the fit ones but at least you know where you stand with them. Yes we would have a better chance of survival but we were absolutely bloody awful, started getting pasted and teams were dealing with us much easier and there wasn't a plan B anymore.

Unfortunately, the list of negativity is MUCH longer and far easier to compile. Top of it is undoubtedly now Kean. For whatever reason the owners have gambled on him, and even though I thought it may do, it just hasn't worked out. I am still an optimist these days though who thinks the Venkys aren't evil and are just a big decision and a P45 away from becoming a success and getting us back on the right road. It has come to the point now though that if this doesn't happen, something is very wrong at our club because nobody can justify a 20% win ratio over nearly 12months.

I'd agree with point 1.

Point 2 is very debatable. If you spend 17M on players normally you're pretty much bound to improve thing to some extent but I'd argue his signings are very poor and that's why they can't get a regular game in the League's bottom side.

You're ignoring transfers out as well---to give away Emerton and Diouf when our squad is so weak was utterly negligent.

Can't accept point 3------the football we now play is worse.How do we score the few goals we get?---------Route one-----high balls from corners and free-kicks. We can't keep a clean sheet and, above all, we can't win. That sort of attitude made it easier for the owners to sack Sam and we are now seeing the consequences.

Its a total disaster and even you are finding it hard to come up with any positives.

[Pedro]

I'd agree with point 1.

Point 2 is very debatable. If you spend 17M on players normally you're pretty much bound to improve thing to some extent but I'd argue his signings are very poor and that's why they can't get a regular game in the League's bottom side.

You're ignoring transfers out as well---to give away Emerton and Diouf when our squad is so weak was utterly negligent.

Can't accept point 3------the football we now play is worse.How do we score the few goals we get?---------Route one-----high balls from corners and free-kicks. We can't keep a clean sheet and, above all, we can't win. That sort of attitude made it easier for the owners to sack Sam and we are now seeing the consequences.

Its a total disaster and even you are finding it hard to come up with any positives.

I have a bit of an issue with responses like that, that for me are very Kean-esque in moulding an arguement in order to prove a different point and I see that happening on here quite a lot. I blatantly said in my post it was hard to think of the positives as they are far outweighed by negatives and I'm a bit perplexed about how I'm getting drawn into the outgoings of Diouf and Emerton which didn't form any part of my arguement. Even though it isn't my arguement, I have to point out that Diouf went AWOL and on strike and was effectively sacked, Emerton's wife wanted to go back home and was prepared to go without him - what could any manager have genuinely done anything different about either situation?

Point 3 and the quality of the incoming players is simply a matter of opinion that is shared by some but not by others, I totally accept your view on it.

[47er]

I have a bit of an issue with responses like that, that for me are very Kean-esque in moulding an arguement in order to prove a different point and I see that happening on here quite a lot. I blatantly said in my post it was hard to think of the positives as they are far outweighed by negatives and I'm a bit perplexed about how I'm getting drawn into the outgoings of Diouf and Emerton which didn't form any part of my arguement. Even though it isn't my arguement, I have to point out that Diouf went AWOL and on strike and was effectively sacked, Emerton's wife wanted to go back home and was prepared to go without him - what could any manager have genuinely done anything different about either situation?

Point 3 and the quality of the incoming players is simply a matter of opinion that is shared by some but not by others, I totally accept your view on it.

Hang on--there's no different point! You can't square off relevant info and say its not legit to include it in a response! You said his transfers had been a positive------I said they were crap and pointed out why. I also pointed out that there are transfers out as well and these should be taken into consideration when assessing positives and negatives.

Emerton and Diouf were on contracts and should only have been released from them if it was in the club's interests to do so. It clearly wasn't-------imo.

[cn174]

They have not. Simple.

[roverandout]

they havent improved us in any way shape or form, they have done nothing positive, they disregard and disespect the fans views, stick by an incompetent buffoon of a manager, sacked the best manager we have had since hughes, spout nonesense at every oppurtunity, raise my blood pressure, make me shout obscenities at the tv screen when baldy is on, i could go on and on.

[Pedro]

Hang on--there's no different point! You can't square off relevant info and say its not legit to include it in a response! You said his transfers had been a positive------I said they were crap and pointed out why. I also pointed out that there are transfers out as well and these should be taken into consideration when assessing positives and negatives.

Emerton and Diouf were on contracts and should only have been released from them if it was in the club's interests to do so. It clearly wasn't-------imo.

I think you are missing the point, Abbey asked for posters to scrape the barrel for positives - I did just that and thought I'd made that clear in my initial post. I'm totally aware of every single negative point in the last 12months but had to really search for genuine positives. It is opinion based and accept your perspective or any criticism you had towards points I actually made, but I didn't have any opinion on players that left under either Sam or Kean - that is my sole issue with what you said in response.

As it happens I view it as a positive that Diouf, his bumper wage and his minimal effort has gone but a big negative that Brett has had to leave too.

[RibbleValleyRover]

They haven't improved us in any way from what I can tell/have seen so far:

- The management structure at board level is weaker with the departure of two long serving executives and they haven't been properly replaced.

- The management of the team is weaker. We have replaced a premier league manager with a manager who would struggle to manage a sunday league side. The backroom staff is considerably weaker as well.

- No real change in the way we buy players. Under the previous owners the formula was:

Sell your best player for big bucks ----->Use most of the money for paying agents fees, debts etc-----> What's left over to be spent on transfer fees + wages.

It's pretty much the same formula under the current owners, so no real improvement.

- A continuation of the policy of giving new contracts to players that either don't deserve them or aren't cost effective. Players like Nelsen, Roberts and Salgado got new deals when instead they should have been offloaded. So no improvement on that front.

I can't think of any aspect of the club that they have improved.

[47er]

I think you are missing the point, Abbey asked for posters to scrape the barrel for positives - I did just that and thought I'd made that clear in my initial post. I'm totally aware of every single negative point in the last 12months but had to really search for genuine positives. It is opinion based and accept your perspective or any criticism you had towards points I actually made, but I didn't have any opinion on players that left under either Sam or Kean - that is my sole issue with what you said in response.

As it happens I view it as a positive that Diouf, his bumper wage and his minimal effort has gone but a big negative that Brett has had to leave too.

OK fair enough. Its Abbey's fault! However Brett didn't have to go, he could have been told wait another 12 months-----its relegation from the Premiership we are talking here. Kean wanted him off the payroll I'd suggest.

Many share your view of Diouf who I don't like as a person. However he was one of our best players till Kean became manager and I do not accept your comment about minimal effort from him.

[broadsword]

How did we fight to keep hold of Jones? As soon as the bid threshold was met we let him talk to Man Utd.

[Paul]

Well today I've started to discover how Twitter works.........which probably would never have happened if I didn't need to keep up with all this rumour.

Not sure if that's a real benefit though........??????