[Archived] Wanting to lose

[RovertheHill]

I have never said anything about being a "true fan" it is the people that are attacking my, and others, opinion on yesterdays result that are measuring dicks.

Plenty on here are reb, and have been doing so for some time. You only have to read the threads. As I said on another thread, it's an individuals choice whether they attend or not. Heck, it's even their choice if they want the team to lose. I don't agree with that, and frankly, if it has come to that then it's very sad and what's the point?

Which only enhances the fact they are stupid!!

Mrs Desai, your chickens have only one leg and we arent buying any more if they are delivered that way, F**K off I own Venkys you are just a customer!!

Would they do that?

I think not, so why do it with us customers!!

I think I get what you're trying to say but the paying customer is such a small amount of our income compared to the fool's gold we get from Sky that it really isn't the same.

Now if people really wanted to boycott foreign ownership of football then a good start would be cancelling the old Sky subscription. Trouble is, it'd hit clubs like ours far more than the bigger boys.

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong and I hope they sack the idiot soon, but I don't hope that Rovers keep losing until they do.

[Kelbo]

Plenty on here are reb, and have been doing so for some time. You only have to read the threads. As I said on another thread, it's an individuals choice whether they attend or not. Heck, it's even their choice if they want the team to lose. I don't agree with that, and frankly, if it has come to that then it's very sad and what's the point?

I think I get what you're trying to say but the paying customer is such a small amount of our income compared to the fool's gold we get from Sky that it really isn't the same.

Now if people really wanted to boycott foreign ownership of football then a good start would be cancelling the old Sky subscription. Trouble is, it'd hit clubs like ours far more than the bigger boys.

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong and I hope they sack the idiot soon, but I don't hope that Rovers keep losing until they do.

But the fools gold wont be there in the Championship!!

[gumboots]

IF it could be 100% guaranteed that losing last night or Saturday or both would have removed Kean and replaced him with a manager who was 100% guaranteed to keep us up, then I might, just might have been able to wish for a loss, but in fact I don't see it as likely that kean will go at any point in the near future regardless of protests or results. So although I'll keep on wanting Kean out and joining in protests as and when I can, I can't really want Rovers to lose. I understand the greater good arguments and I totally respect your right to want Rovers to lose if you think it will be for the good of the club in the long term, but, whether I'm at the match or following on tv or radio, I still get a panic feeling when i hear "there's been a goal at ....." and I always desperately hope it's for us.

[Doug]

IF it could be 100% guaranteed that losing last night or Saturday or both would have removed Kean and replaced him with a manager who was 100% guaranteed to keep us up, then I might, just might have been able to wish for a loss, but in fact I don't see it as likely that kean will go at any point in the near future regardless of protests or results. So although I'll keep on wanting Kean out and joining in protests as and when I can, I can't really want Rovers to lose. I understand the greater good arguments and I totally respect your right to want Rovers to lose if you think it will be for the good of the club in the long term, but, whether I'm at the match or following on tv or radio, I still get a panic feeling when i hear "there's been a goal at ....." and I always desperately hope it's for us.

I know what you mean, I couldn't want Rovers to lose, even if it meant Kean out! I always get the adrenalin rush when a comentator says that too! I kid myself with the idea that if we lose it's another nail in his coffin but that doesn't ease the disappointment! I've even started betting on the opposition to see if that makes me feel any better.... it doesn't, even if I win a little cash.

[Kelbo]

IF it could be 100% guaranteed that losing last night or Saturday or both would have removed Kean and replaced him with a manager who was 100% guaranteed to keep us up, then I might, just might have been able to wish for a loss, but in fact I don't see it as likely that kean will go at any point in the near future regardless of protests or results. So although I'll keep on wanting Kean out and joining in protests as and when I can, I can't really want Rovers to lose. I understand the greater good arguments and I totally respect your right to want Rovers to lose if you think it will be for the good of the club in the long term, but, whether I'm at the match or following on tv or radio, I still get a panic feeling when i hear "there's been a goal at ....." and I always desperately hope it's for us.

Gumboots, I dont always agree with your posts but each time you always put up a good argument, I do hear what you are saying and to a degree, I agree with what you say, I cheered when I heard of Givets winner last night, yet was sad because I knew the 'Positives' Kean would throw at the post match interview and likewise to his puppeteers in Pune.

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[47er]

Apart from one or two on here, we are all true fans and most of us are on the horns of a dilemma.

We don't want Rovers to lose games but we don't want Kean to stay as manager.

Its not surprising that we fall out given the impossibility of our position for which Venkys are 100% to blame.

Should never have appointed him in the first place and should have rectified their mistake months ago.

I want us to win at Norwich but that will guarantee his position for another month and so it goes on.

If we, by a miracle, avoid relegation, he'll start as manager next season and on and on it will go.

Given the ownership the situation is unresolvable. The consequence is quite likely to be a huge drop in attendances over time and we will be left with a ghost of a club to support.

[AggyBlue]

Well they'll NEVER sack Kean when he continues to fob the odd victory here and there, will they?

No.Let's hope his win percentage is better in the Chumpionship.

[Rovermatt]

Frankly I'm not comfortable with losing any games since Kean appears bullet-proof, regardless of the results.

[Wiggy]

Apart from one or two on here, we are all true fans and most of us are on the horns of a dilemma.

Given the ownership the situation is unresolvable. The consequence is quite likely to be a huge drop in attendances over time and we will be left with a ghost of a club to support.

Absolutely 47er. The number of dyed in the wool Rovers supporters who are thinking of giving up on the club is, frankly, incredible.

The Rao family will pay dearly for their stubbornly stupid decision to stick with Kean.

[USABlue]

I think you misunderstand the thinking behind it Abbey.

Its like asking when does the cost of a war that you feel is just outweigh the benifit of it in the first place.

When the 100,000th soldier died was that enough in WW2? The 200,000th? The 300,000th?

That is without doubt the most ridiculous analogy I have EVER seen.

I am sorry no matter what I just can not bring myself to wish my team to lose (yes folks it's L-O-S-E) JUst can't won't, ever and to actually criticise someone who doesn't is Effin stupid and bang out of order.

Rovers till I die, whatever league, who ever's the boss

[Tris]

As for wanting Rovers to lose, my answer is this, if by losing a game it would see the end of Kean and better still Venkys, I would gladly take it

The future of BRFC is bigger than any one game - sometimes you need to take a step back to go forwards.

This is where the argument falls down.

We're not going to see the end of Venkys ownership at any time soon. Being fatalistic, certainly we won't see the back of Venkys whilst we're in the Premier League.

Because any potential buyer who may be waiting in the wings today (with the money, the common sense and the local pride and best interests of BRFC truly at heart) - just isn't going to jump in now with their hard earned cash.

Any such potential sucessor to Venkys would wait for relegation and then pick the thing up for a fraction of the current price, with the hope of turning it around and becoming a local hero with a future promotion (or cup run (or Manx Cup win)).

SO for the present, as supporters, we have to hope that Venkys get things right. Most of us see that starting with the immediate departure of Steve Kean.

However, whilst Kean is still here, we absolutely need every 3 points on offer, and if not 3 then hell we need the draws instead.

But here's the real challenge to those people who want the team to lose games now.

If Steve Kean remains manager, then very soon (like within a few games) you are going to have to completely switch your focus and your aggression.

Because we assume you all have BRFCs PL survival at heart, you are going to have to swallow pride and back Steve Kean and this Rovers team to the hilt, if (or when) the simple maths moves us from possible, through probable and towards mathematical CERTAIN relegation prospects.

When it comes down to must win games to stay in this league, rather than convenient defeats to suit a hatred of Steve Kean - you will all back BRFC 100% - yes??

So surely it's better to take any available points now rather than wish the team to lose? We can deal with Kean later, but for now we JUST NEED POINTS. Starting at Norwich.

[rebelmswar]

That is without doubt the most ridiculous analogy I have EVER seen.

I am sorry no matter what I just can not bring myself to wish my team town lose (yes folks it's L-O-S-E) JUst can't won't, ever and to actually criticise someone who doesn't is Effin stupid and bang out of order.

Rovers till I die, whatever league, who ever's the boss

It was meant to be, it is an intangible question as apt as the original. The question was put forth by the OP and answered to the best of my ability. Now it seems on here that because of a simple difference in what we are willing to sacrifice for the betterment of the club as a whole, the very loose analogy and as far removed as the original, we are to be vilified. It seems that there is a special breed of super fan that needs to howl its displeasure at anyone who dares to have a different opinion. Screw that. You are in no position, and you sure as hell dont have the authority, to tell me how or when to support anything. You throwing your superior love in my face is as far out of order than any perceived slight I have dished out to "the real fans."

And I did not criticize anyone for their belief, choice in manner of support or whatever you are so wound up about. I think you will find that has been a one way street.

I am also glad for you that you feel that your support is so far superior to mine. Maybe we can get our dads together to have an arm wrestle to finally prove who's best.

[Miker]

If we win, I'm happy.

If we lose, I'm not sad because it means Kean is one step closer to getting fired.

[booth]

It's simple, if they keep Kean we will lose more than we win anyway.

No one needs to "want to lose."

[USABlue]

It was meant to be, it is an intangible question as apt as the original. The question was put forth by the OP and answered to the best of my ability. Now it seems on here that because of a simple difference in what we are willing to sacrifice for the betterment of the club as a whole, the very loose analogy and as far removed as the original, we are to be vilified. It seems that there is a special breed of super fan that needs to howl its displeasure at anyone who dares to have a different opinion. Screw that. You are in no position, and you sure as hell dont have the authority, to tell me how or when to support anything. You throwing your superior love in my face is as far out of order than any perceived slight I have dished out to "the real fans."

And I did not criticize anyone for their belief, choice in manner of support or whatever you are so wound up about. I think you will find that has been a one way street.

I am also glad for you that you feel that your support is so far superior to mine. Maybe we can get our dads together to have an arm wrestle to finally prove who's best.

You are reading between lines and coming up wrong, very well written response though. NOWHERE did I suggest any measurement of who is a better fan. So where you pulled that from I don't know. I thought Abbey's question was quite simple and to try to run a parallel to war and loss of life is well off base, you know it, defend it how you want I don't care, it's not about who is right or who is wrong. Abbey's was a question I simply wrote my opinion. Pray tell how wishing for defeat, in the current situation, is "sacrificing for the betterment of the club". Your other comments are trumped up, self serving and to be honest totally fabricated. I did NOT say YOU criticized but there are those who are doing. I stick to my guns, it is my opinion that a fan of this club wishing for us to lose is somehow totally lost on me. I am also no wound up, I save that for the moments I read Roberts is on the team sheet. Now I wait with interest to see how you actually decipher this post. Just a BTW of sorts, my dad passed away a few years back, me step dad is still alive however, he's 85 so maybe we can still arrange an arm wrestle if you feel it will help in some way.

[rebelmswar]

You are reading between lines and coming up wrong, very well written response though. NOWHERE did I suggest any measurement of who is a better fan. So where you pulled that from I don't know. I thought Abbey's question was quite simple and to try to run a parallel to war and loss of life is well off base, you know it, defend it how you want I don't care, it's not about who is right or who is wrong. Abbey's was a question I simply wrote my opinion. Pray tell how wishing for defeat, in the current situation, is "sacrificing for the betterment of the club". Your other comments are trumped up, self serving and to be honest totally fabricated. I did NOT say YOU criticized but there are those who are doing. I stick to my guns, it is my opinion that a fan of this club wishing for us to lose is somehow totally lost on me. I am also no wound up, I save that for the moments I read Roberts is on the team sheet. Now I wait with interest to see how you actually decipher this post. Just a BTW of sorts, my dad passed away a few years back, me step dad is still alive however, he's 85 so maybe we can still arrange an arm wrestle if you feel it will help in some way.

Strung out in caffeine and rage will do that to a man I suppose, thought my dog was looking at me funny a moment ago, and I swear the T.V. is laughing at me.

I feel I fabricated nothing though as you did say the "criticizing out of order" part and I was the only quote. Whatever though, we all ###### in the same pool anyway.

Prepare to be wound up tighter than the Hulks pocket watch come Saturday then. My dad is also sadly passed but my step dad can beat yours any day. BRING IT.

P.S. no hard feelings or anything. I would gladly pee on you if you were on fire and I expect the same, just hydrate well.

[Ozz]

With or without Kean, we need every single point. If we get points under Kean we are more likely to stay up. If don't, the more likely he is to be sacked, but the less likely we are to stay up.

I want us to win every game we play, regardless of who is in charge.

[Paul]

I couldn't make it Wednesday, well not without an enormous effort as I'm currently not able to drive. My Tom rang me at 11.25 more excited than at any point this season. It was wonderful.

Winning is everything.

I'm not one of those who uses the word "hate," those who use it in relation to Kean / Venky's do not, IMO, understand its meaning. I just want the club's future resolved but even then I can't imagine myself wanting to lose a game.

Even if Kean was sacked we don't have a reliable replacement lined up.

[Mattyblue]

If he had been sacked after City or Tottenham or Newcastle or or or or then I would have gladly taken the defeat in question for this 'greater good'.

But, time is moving on and we can't afford anymore of this thinking.

All this is pointless anyway, we can't effect results. Now if the players were having this discussion, however...

[AllRoverAsia]

I couldn't make it Wednesday, well not without an enormous effort as I'm currently not able to drive. My Tom rang me at 11.25 more excited than at any point this season. It was wonderful.

Winning is everything.

I'm not one of those who uses the word "hate," those who use it in relation to Kean / Venky's do not, IMO, understand its meaning. I just want the club's future resolved but even then I can't imagine myself wanting to lose a game.

Even if Kean was sacked we don't have a reliable replacement lined up.

Hate - examples:

* To feel hostility or animosity toward.

* To detest.

* To feel dislike or distaste for

I certainly have a dislike and distaste for and also detest Kean so I am Ok with thinking I hate him.

[Parsonblue]

The problem with wanting to lose is that it is based on two assumptions:

Firstly, that Venky's will sack Kean and secondly that Venky's will bring in a suitable replacement.

As Venky's are completely taken in by Kean the first assumption is very unlikely to happen anytime soon.

With regard to the second assumption, we must remember that Venky's appointed Kean and have supported him thus far, what makes anyone think that they are capable of finding a suitable replacement?

Everyone seems to think that if Kean goes we'll end up with a Mark Hughes or a Martin O'Neill. However, these owners are just as likely to bring in another Paul Ince or another Steve Kean.

The most important thing at the moment is to get points on the board no matter who the manager is.

[47er]

The problem with wanting to lose is that it is based on two assumptions:

Firstly, that Venky's will sack Kean and secondly that Venky's will bring in a suitable replacement.

As Venky's are completely taken in by Kean the first assumption is very unlikely to happen anytime soon.

With regard to the second assumption, we must remember that Venky's appointed Kean and have supported him thus far, what makes anyone think that they are capable of finding a suitable replacement?

Everyone seems to think that if Kean goes we'll end up with a Mark Hughes or a Martin O'Neill. However, these owners are just as likely to bring in another Paul Ince or another Steve Kean.

The most important thing at the moment is to get points on the board no matter who the manager is.

Going round in circles aren't we?

Most of us think that we can't get the points if Kean stays as manager.

[T4E]

This is where the argument falls down.

We're not going to see the end of Venkys ownership at any time soon.

It's not, because I dont want the end of Venky's. I want Steve Kean to go. I actually think Venky's have learned enough lessons over the last year that if they appointed a good, experienced and autonymous manager they wouldn't feel so threatened this time and feel the need to get rid of them.

With a decent manager I think they'll do fine for us.

[T4E]

When it comes down to must win games to stay in this league, rather than convenient defeats to suit a hatred of Steve Kean - you will all back BRFC 100% - yes??

So surely it's better to take any available points now rather than wish the team to lose? We can deal with Kean later, but for now we JUST NEED POINTS. Starting at Norwich.

The Norwich game is a different kettle of fish completely. If we lost a cup game I wouldnt be bothered as it would help the cause. If we lost at home to Spurs or Man City again I wouldnt expect points there so it's not as damaging. Norwich away is a huge game, and I am fully 100% hoping that we win. However, if we don't, I will take solace in the possibility that it may push him closer to the door.

[greco]

the reason some hope we lose, is they are desperate to see kean fired. Having kean in charge, for some, is synonymous with relegation. A view i share.

You need not look any further then a 2 years back and then a similar story appears. Its even a blackburn story, with a dude who goes by the name if ince.

Some people ask, why do you want us to lose, ill raise you and ask, was it wrong tp hope for a defeat against wigan, when you consider what happened afterwards.?

The best analogy regarding this subject has already been written by another poster, cant remember who, but said person wrote, that he/she would accept losing a battle, if it helped win the war.