[Archived] Was Kean ordered to make the substitutions?

[yoda]

Could it be possible that Kean was orered to make the substitutions (again) while we were coasting to a win?

[ABBEY]

Nowt would surprise me

[RovertheHill]

By whom? Seems a bit far-fetched to me when the evidence is there for all to see - Kean's substitutions have been absolute pants for the best part of a year

[yoda]

By whom? Seems a bit far-fetched to me when the evidence is there for all to see - Kean's substitutions have been absolute pants for the best part of a year

I think that re-enforces the question!

[OhmiBRFC]

What ?

[readsi3k]

I actually died a little on the inside when I read this thread.

I wish I believed this was some sort of clever satire. But I bet it probably isn't

[SAS]

I thought you had some kind of evidence to post a topic like this...

Bizarre

[rebelmswar]

I think that re-enforces the question!

Could it be that he just doesn't know what the (Please don't use that word again) he is doing?

I have seen chickens produce better strategy while crapping in their water bowl.

[Glenn]

I think I've read enough of Yoda's posts over the years to know this one is very much on the mischief pile

[rebelmswar]

I think I've read enough of Yoda's posts over the years to know this one is very much on the mischief pile

Long suspected Venkeys plant Glenn desperately tries to throw water on this inferno of truth.

[Beta Ray Bill]

Lets look at the 3 substitutions and see how well this theory holds up.

1. Yakubu for Goodwillie

Yakubu doesn't exactly look the type of player who can play a full game at current fitness levels and after over an hour on Wednesday night, it's not surprising he lasted only about the same yesterday.

You either replace him with fans favourite and alleged Venky Henchman Jason Roberts or out of his depth currently David Goodwillie. Either was likely to generate howls of derision for one reason or another.

Can't see where this one yells "conspiracy".

2. Rochina for Dunn

Although looking very good in the first half from an attacking PoV, Rochina offered little or no cover defensively on the right flank - if he was even on the right when Norwich were in possession. With the need to try and tighten up against the inevitable final onslaught. Three options existed on the bench: Petrovic, Vukcevic or Dunn. The former would have needed a change in the shape of the midfield, the middle seems to be more attack minded than defensive (but tbh, does seem to try and work back), whilst the latter does at least have experience on his side.

Unless the conspiracy is that Rochina should have stayed on - in which case his lack of defensive nous would no doubt be criticised for staying on so long - then Dunn was probably seen as the less worst option at that stage. Pity he can hardly waddle these days, let alone run. But hardly a conspiracy.

3. Hoilett for Petrovic

The only reason for Hoilett's removal was an injury. Many there actually thought he'd done his hamstring the way he pulled up in mid run. Thankfully it seems to have been only cramp. At that stage of the game, the only option left was to shuffle midfield and bring on the most defensive one available, Petrovic. Ironically, he went on a run from inside the Rovers half, took on several Norwich players and just delayed a fraction too long in trying to get his shot away. If that had gone in, it would have been one of the goals of the season.

If Petrovic hadn't come on for Hoilett, and a defensive substitution was required, then the only other option would have been to bring on Hanley, move Givet to L/B and Olsson to left wing. It would have been an interesting gamble to mix up the back four so late in the game, but might have been an interesting one by keeping genuine pace on the wing. But if that had backfired, then it would have looked even worse.

Therefore, a conspiracy doesn't really hold any water. Unless it's the lack of physical conditioning during training or an inability to coach midfielders to defend that is the core of the conspiracy. But to me, that smacks more of incompetence.

[ABBEY]

What ?

tebow

[T4E]

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but bringing Roberts on may well have won us the game. I'd have brought him on, pushed Rochina up to play off him and played the ball up to them to hold up and keep possession. There was absolutely no outlet with Yakubu off and no one that could retain possession with Rochina off.

Kean is an idiot.

[Paul]

tebow

ABBEY why do you keep posting that? I know Tom Tebow plays for the Broncos but you are posting the word everywhere.

What does it mean?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Lets look at the 3 substitutions and see how well this theory holds up.

1. Yakubu for Goodwillie

Yakubu doesn't exactly look the type of player who can play a full game at current fitness levels and after over an hour on Wednesday night, it's not surprising he lasted only about the same yesterday.

You either replace him with fans favourite and alleged Venky Henchman Jason Roberts or out of his depth currently David Goodwillie. Either was likely to generate howls of derision for one reason or another.

Can't see where this one yells "conspiracy".

2. Rochina for Dunn

Although looking very good in the first half from an attacking PoV, Rochina offered little or no cover defensively on the right flank - if he was even on the right when Norwich were in possession. With the need to try and tighten up against the inevitable final onslaught. Three options existed on the bench: Petrovic, Vukcevic or Dunn. The former would have needed a change in the shape of the midfield, the middle seems to be more attack minded than defensive (but tbh, does seem to try and work back), whilst the latter does at least have experience on his side.

Unless the conspiracy is that Rochina should have stayed on - in which case his lack of defensive nous would no doubt be criticised for staying on so long - then Dunn was probably seen as the less worst option at that stage. Pity he can hardly waddle these days, let alone run. But hardly a conspiracy.

3. Hoilett for Petrovic

The only reason for Hoilett's removal was an injury. Many there actually thought he'd done his hamstring the way he pulled up in mid run. Thankfully it seems to have been only cramp. At that stage of the game, the only option left was to shuffle midfield and bring on the most defensive one available, Petrovic. Ironically, he went on a run from inside the Rovers half, took on several Norwich players and just delayed a fraction too long in trying to get his shot away. If that had gone in, it would have been one of the goals of the season.

If Petrovic hadn't come on for Hoilett, and a defensive substitution was required, then the only other option would have been to bring on Hanley, move Givet to L/B and Olsson to left wing. It would have been an interesting gamble to mix up the back four so late in the game, but might have been an interesting one by keeping genuine pace on the wing. But if that had backfired, then it would have looked even worse.

Therefore, a conspiracy doesn't really hold any water. Unless it's the lack of physical conditioning during training or an inability to coach midfielders to defend that is the core of the conspiracy. But to me, that smacks more of incompetence.

Thanks for the rational analysis for those who weren't at the game. Very astute.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but bringing Roberts on may well have won us the game. I'd have brought him on, pushed Rochina up to play off him and played the ball up to them to hold up and keep possession. There was absolutely no outlet with Yakubu off and no one that could retain possession with Rochina off.

Kean is an idiot.

Dunn can retain possession as well as Rochina. Yakubu hardly did anything all game (bar scoring ironically). I can guarantee that if Norwich had scored with Rochina/Hoillet/Yakubu still all on the pitch, Kean would be getting fans screaming at him for not trying to shut up shop by bringing Dunn/Petrovic on.

You're basically saying that everything that went wrong yesterday stemmed directly from Kean's substitutions and you knew from the minute that Rochina was brought off that Norwich would score a 25 yard deflected shot and a incorrectly awarded penalty.

I know its hard for some people to hear but for once, Kean's substitutions were not the main reason for losing. We were just bloody unlucky.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Dunn can retain possession as well as Rochina. Yakubu hardly did anything all game (bar scoring ironically). I can guarantee that if Norwich had scored with Rochina/Hoillet/Yakubu still all on the pitch, Kean would be getting fans screaming at him for not trying to shut up shop by bringing Dunn/Petrovic on.

You're basically saying that everything that went wrong yesterday stemmed directly from Kean's substitutions and you knew from the minute that Rochina was brought off that Norwich would score a 25 yard deflected shot and a incorrectly awarded penalty.

I know its hard for some people to hear but for once, Kean's substitutions were not the main reason for losing. We were just bloody unlucky.

I agree.

[JAL]

Could it be possible that Kean was orered to make the substitutions (again) while we were coasting to a win?

Are we saying he hears voices in his head.

[rebelmswar]

why not take Yak off for Petrovic, throw Rocky the Squirrel up front by his own?

Take off the Jnr for Dunn and play him in front a midfield three of Zonzi, Gamst, and Petrovic?

[joey_big_nose]

Dunn can retain possession as well as Rochina. Yakubu hardly did anything all game (bar scoring ironically). I can guarantee that if Norwich had scored with Rochina/Hoillet/Yakubu still all on the pitch, Kean would be getting fans screaming at him for not trying to shut up shop by bringing Dunn/Petrovic on.

You're basically saying that everything that went wrong yesterday stemmed directly from Kean's substitutions and you knew from the minute that Rochina was brought off that Norwich would score a 25 yard deflected shot and a incorrectly awarded penalty.

I know its hard for some people to hear but for once, Kean's substitutions were not the main reason for losing. We were just bloody unlucky.

True.

And also if folks are going to criticise over his poor subsititutions then it is only fair to also praise the way we were intially setup which produced one of the best passing displays that I have seen rovers put together in a long long time.

[Stuart]

Dunn can retain possession as well as Rochina. Yakubu hardly did anything all game (bar scoring ironically). I can guarantee that if Norwich had scored with Rochina/Hoillet/Yakubu still all on the pitch, Kean would be getting fans screaming at him for not trying to shut up shop by bringing Dunn/Petrovic on.

You're basically saying that everything that went wrong yesterday stemmed directly from Kean's substitutions and you knew from the minute that Rochina was brought off that Norwich would score a 25 yard deflected shot and a incorrectly awarded penalty.

I know its hard for some people to hear but for once, Kean's substitutions were not the main reason for losing. We were just bloody unlucky.

It's ironic that despite your defence of Kean, you also view the draw as a defeat.

The problem is that people continue to look at each game in isolation. At what point along a period of, say, 30 games does bad luck start to become something more consistent like bad tactics, poor organisation, lack of fitness/sharpness. All the things the manager should be in charge of.

It the season had only started prior to the Spurs game, it's just possible to forgive some of the problems but if you take into account all of the evidence, it actually points to a deeper problem than just being 'bloody unlucky'.

What is even more galling is that, in spite of months of overt patience, the media are now starting to blame the fans for the poor run of form. Not surprising if Kean's PA's son is one of the journos writing such articles.

[John]

It is great to have a good display against a newly promoted team however we are shipping far too many goals - from Kean's comments, he wants to play with a lot of flair players in the team therefore we will have to outscore the opposition quite a lot in order to actually win matches.

[T4E]

You're basically saying that everything that went wrong yesterday stemmed directly from Kean's substitutions and you knew from the minute that Rochina was brought off that Norwich would score a 25 yard deflected shot and a incorrectly awarded penalty.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Rochina has the skill to take a player on and commit him which we used well until he went off.

The bottom line is that he should not have made those two subs at the same time - it meant that as soon as Hoillet pulled up lame we lost the ability to make another tactical change. I firmly believe if he hadn't done that we would've won.

[ABBEY]

ABBEY why do you keep posting that? I know Tom Tebow plays for the Broncos but you are posting the word everywhere.

What does it mean?

not only was it wrong thread but wrong board lol and site

[chris]

Such a stupid thread, this points out all that is bad about fans forums, people think too much and go too far