[Archived] New Mortgage

[glen9mullan]

I have a copy of the document if anyone wants one. It is 13 pages almost deliberatetly designed to confuse the reader with no specific numbers. there is a vast list of exceptions which currently are meaningless because all broadcast revenues come through the central agreement with the Premier League.

Having slept on it- my reading is that effectively the Premier League income for 2011/2 and all the Parachute payments are pledged to Barclays as security.

This does not mean that Rovers have a £100m overdraft (the size of the mortgage security).

There are rumours that Rovers owe over £40m now but I find that number all but incredible.

The transfer fees ghave been a net zero, the club used to lose just £5m on an operating basis (make that £9m because of loss of League position prize money) and on 19 November 2010 Venky's contracted to remove the existing debts and inject a new £15m into the club.

If we are £40m in the red with the bank, Venky's have somehow managed to turn annual running costs of £60m into something around £110m in 12 short months.

Not even they could do that could they?

Can you email it over to me please Philip

[alexanders]

Hi Philip,

Could you please e-mail me a copy of the document:

[email protected]

Best Regards,

Alexanders

[Emge]

I have a copy of the document if anyone wants one. It is 13 pages almost deliberatetly designed to confuse the reader with no specific numbers. there is a vast list of exceptions which currently are meaningless because all broadcast revenues come through the central agreement with the Premier League.

Could you please send me the document? =)

[email protected]

Thanks!

[Mercer]

This is horrific.

It's known that Rovers were operating at a loss under the wise and careful management of Messrs Williams and Finn etc.

Key points, IMO:

What we know is that costs have escalated substantially ie agents fees, management pay-offs. Some will be 'exceptional' (pay-offs). Bottom line, we could be looking at additional costs over the last 12 months of c£15m.

Income streams have fallen ie PL placement monies, shirt sponsorship, season ticket sales, match day sales and corporate boxes. Bottom line, income reduction c£9m.

Operating gap over last 12 months therefore a staggering £24m plus 'normal' loss (as under Walker Trust) of say £5m = almost £30m.

Gap could be even bigger given all the new contracts handed out to Kean's mouthpieces.

This will explain why net transfer fees are negative (more in than out) and why there's perhaps a reluctance to sack the relatively cheap Kean.

Not seen this mortgage document but a conventional debenture usually comprises a fixed (against property, land etc) and floating (against trading assets) charge. Barclays have clearly gone for belt and braces and my take on this is, it merely confirms that our club is in one helluva mess both financially and operationally and we might not recover.

[Miker]

If you want the document let me know and I will email it to you.

[thenodrog]

In a word:

Yes.

Club gets relegated:

Sell players = money in

Parachute payments = money in

Trousering money in = money to Venkys.

Far more than they paid initially.

Exactly right Dave. And imo that was the clincher that "DelBoy" Anderson used to sell the concept of buying BRFC to the Venkeymob. "Owite Balaji me old China? Nah listen, the asking price for BRFC is so cheap that you and er indoors simply cannot lose! It isn't even a gamble .... Oh and just think how much you could make if you got into Europe this season and won the Champions League, UEFA cup and the European Championships next year. You'd clean up simple as. You'll need better players of course but just leave that to me and Hubers. "

aside in the best Delboy accent... "Nudge nudge, nod and a wink... say no more. This time next year Hubers... we'll be millionaires"

[J*B]

Miker,

Send one to [email protected]

thanks a lot.

[The Gull]

If you want the document let me know and I will email it to you.

Miker,

Please send a copy to [email protected].

Many thanks.

[joey_big_nose]

"

In a word:

Yes.

Club gets relegated:

Sell players = money in

Parachute payments = money in

Trousering money in = money to Venkys.

Far more than they paid initially.

"

For it to add up they would have to make up more than 30 million. I can't see how that would work unless they can keep the club afloat and in the premiership and sell it on. Law states that they would have to pay all debtors, including banks etc so if we go down then there will be very little money to extract.

I doubt Venkys would take money out but I can see them killing the club with crazy financial mismanagement.

[thenodrog]

Sorry that is incorrect please reread what Kammy said All furtue income belongs to Barclays this does not stop as Rovers have been relegated.

Speculating here but surely that would only hold good until the debt to Barclays had been paid off. After that any income would go to the Venkeys. Lets suppose the mortgage is 20m. One or two good player sales could easily square that off, as could a parachute payment or even the sale of all or part of Brockhall.

[BRST]

Please could I have a copy

[email protected]

Cheers

[ABBEY]

If they can't afford to sack any manager then what the hell are these lunes from Pune doing in football?? V

[Miker]

I have now sent the documents to everyone that's requested them.

[philipl]

If they can't afford to sack any manager then what the hell are these lunes from Pune doing in football?? V

"afford" might be taken in senses other than financial.

Plenty enough rumours around about what Kean has been allowed to get up to.

[BangkokRover]

The last one was set up as a short term agreement when Venkys took over, that expired so they took out a new one.

That expired Venkeys did nothing the Man U money for Jones arrived in the Bank. Barclay's froze the the account till Venkys sorted out the mess.

[davulsukur]

So basically, it's brown trousers time.

[Tom]

Oh dear this looks very worrying!

[BangkokRover]

Oh dear this looks very worrying!

Wonder if the Pune 9 jolly was paid for out of the overdraft??

[Miker]

That expired Venkeys did nothing the Man U money for Jones arrived in the Bank. Barclay's froze the the account till Venkys sorted out the mess.

Given we made our purchases after 25/08/2011 - the date the new mortgage was taken out - I would assume that Venky's were waiting for that mortgage to be approved by the bank and were unable to make any purchases until then.

It's likely that the December mortgage was taken out to cover the expenses of loaning Santa Cruz and Jones, as well as buying Rochina and Formica, sacking Sam and McDonald, agent fees and various other expenses. A new mortgage was then required for this season. As far as I can tell, clubs like Bolton, Wigan and Everton have also recently taken out mortgage charges like us.

[BangkokRover]

Given we made our purchases after 25/08/2011 - the date the new mortgage was taken out - I would assume that Venky's were waiting for that mortgage to be approved by the bank and were unable to make any purchases until then.

It's likely that the December mortgage was taken out to cover the expenses of loaning Santa Cruz and Jones, as well as buying Rochina and Formica, sacking Sam and McDonald, agent fees and various other expenses. A new mortgage was then required for this season. As far as I can tell, clubs like Bolton, Wigan and Everton have also recently taken out mortgage charges like us.

Is it not normal to open a dialog with the bank weeks or months before a financial facility is due to run out or need renewed? Since Jones agreed to join Man U on the 13th of June surely that was a perfect time to have that talk?

[philipl]

Yes Miker, but Rovers were supposed to have received £15m cash injection from Venky's by 4 December 2010 and have nearly £1m of interest expense removed.

If they had managed the club sanely and responsibly instead of handing the reins over to Kentaro, there would have been no need for these mortgages.

Bangkokrover's point about the mortgages being hurried and unplanned is deeply valid also.

In my books, this is brown trousers time.

[Miker]

After reading the document again I'd like to point out that the mortgage has been secured in relation to what is defined as the "Central Funds", which by definition given in the document is:

"All or any part of any UK Broadcasting Money, Overseas Broadcasting Money, Commercial Contract Money, Radio Contract Money and/or Title Sponsorship Money."

The exact words of the contract are as follows:

"The Assignor with full title guarantee hereby assigns to the bank absolutely all of its right, title and interest (present or future) in and to, and all benefits accruing under or in connection with, all amounts (excluding VAT) due or owing to, or which may be due or owing to, or purchased, or otherwise acquired by, the Assignor in relation to, or in connection with, or deriving from the Central Funds relating to the 2011/2012 Season and in respect of each Season thereafter as security for the payment of and discharge of the Secured Sums."

[Miker]

Yes Miker, but Rovers were supposed to have received £15m cash injection from Venky's by 4 December 2010 and have nearly £1m of interest expense removed.

If they had managed the club sanely and responsibly instead of handing the reins over to Kentaro, there would have been no need for these mortgages.

Bangkokrover's point about the mortgages being hurried and unplanned is deeply valid also.

In my books, this is brown trousers time.

However virtually every other club in the Premier League has some form of mortgage out. Clubs like Wigan and Everton have taken out mortgages in August for the exact same thing as us, and secured against the Sky money for this season. But I'm sure you agree that Dave Whelan is not trying to get Wigan bankrupt and relegated (even if he does choose to persist with Martinez).

[chris]

I'm not too worried about this, I'm currently putting together a short list of other team I'm going to support once Blackburn go under, not come up with any yet but early days.

[BlueMonday]

"afford" might be taken in senses other than financial.

Plenty enough rumours around about what Kean has been allowed to get up to.

Is that to suggest that he cant be sacked because he'll spill the beans if they do.

Allegedly

My take on this is that if it goes tits up the Pune loons can pretty much walk away

and the club will carry the debt.

Please tell me I'm wrong.