[Archived] Here’s my two pennies worth and a bit more!

[mark1875]

Bloody well done, and a fellow Accy lad at that. You have hit the proverbial nail for fans such as myself. I can't help but feel this has declined to a hodge podge of personal agendas rather than a true love for BRFC. Perhaps we will again decline to those dark days and the only fans still left will be those such as yourself, a part of me asks if that is really such a bad thing.

so part of you won't see if as a bad thing if the club you apparently love descends back into those dark days?

that's a 'true fan's' opinion is it?

[rebelmswar]

Bloody well done, and a fellow Accy lad at that. You have hit the proverbial nail for fans such as myself. I can't help but feel this has declined to a hodge podge of personal agendas rather than a true love for BRFC. Perhaps we will again decline to those dark days and the only fans still left will be those such as yourself, a part of me asks if that is really such a bad thing.

Just a quick question for ya.

Why is it okay for people who take the moral high ground to insult the people who do not?

[AndyB]

Doowe, did you protest against Jim Iley and Paul Ince?

[thenodrog]

Good post Doowe and very much a mirror image of my own lifelong support. You won't rem the 60 Cup Final or if you do you may have only vague memories of it but you must remember the thousands of fans who dropped their support after that episode. My own father still went but was sickened by the unashamed money grabbing antics of the players leading up to the match and of the treachery of Derek Dougan in particular. Those players earned £25 pw tops which would have been just about twice a the average weekly wage, however just a few years later he was put off altogether by the abolishment of the max wage and the scene which was set for the demise of town clubs and the rise of the big city clubs.

Jack Walker levelled the playing field but even then I personally knew deep down that it wasn't right and that clubs could never thrive in the long term under such an arrangement. I always new the Walker years were a temporary arrangement. Next up as Jack passed on the Sky money came to our rescue but the biter bit is that the financial gap between the Championship and the Prem is now wider than the Grand Canyon and the increased revenue is not used to fund clubs but rather through fear is used to fund impossible bank borrowings for clubs.

Which brings me to the new owners and the straw that broke this particular camel's back. Call me all you like Doowe (and I would certainly tell you this to your face but it will never be on the BBurn End) but I will never ever accept a base liar, I simply cannot stand a liar and the venkeymob have 3 of them! Couple that with the macheavellian influence of some murky delboy character whose only ambition appears to be to get rich quick out of my club and the unholy way that the previous tiers of management were ousted and thats enough for me. The whole events from last November forward turn my bloody stomach.

Bloody well done, and a fellow Accy lad at that. You have hit the proverbial nail for fans such as myself. I can't help but feel this has declined to a hodge podge of personal agendas rather than a true love for BRFC.

Suit yourself USABlue, you can think what you want but as far as I am concerned the 'agenda's' start right at the top in BRFc and I'm damned sure that the last thing you will find up there is any love for the club ....or us!

[mcphee7]

Here’s my two pennies worth,

I have been coming on this board practically every day for the last eight to nine years or so but hardly contribute in any discussions, however after reading the stuff wrote on this board the last twelve months or so.... its time for me to have my say,.

Before my rant let me tell you were it all began for me and the Rovers

Born in 1953

Raised in Accrington and went to Holy Family RC School, my dad started taking me to football when I was maybe eight or nine he didn’t support any local teams because he was Italian and came over to England in the late 50s but like most Italians he loved football, he used to take me to Stanley, Rovers, Burnley and United, so I got hooked, most weekends off we went with our butties flask and my wooden crate and stand by a barrier,

Why did I choose Rovers?

When I got to the age of 12/13 my dad started to work weekends so I still wanted to go to football so I used get the coach from the Load of Mischief in Clayton, Rovers one week Burnley the next and at time Burnley were by far the most successful team but after a few months for some reason I chose Blackburn Rovers, I have always wondered to myself why? Well the only conclusion I have ever come up with was the colour of the kits, Burnley`s a dark and miserable off red shirts and the grey hills over the stands ( It always seemed to rain on match days) Rovers, Blue and White halves, white shorts and socks and it always seemed sunny on match days!

1966

The Polio outbreak in Blackburn and then the fall from grace “relegation”

At the time pundits alike said with the players we had we would bounce straight back but after a few false dawns and dwindling crowds, the inevitable, 1970 down we went again and for the first time in their history Blackburn Rovers were in the third tier of English football,

what was it like back then? Agony, despair everyone used to take the ###### back then if you followed the Rovers.

But what the supporters had back then was a sense of togetherness, camaraderie,a belonging all for one, its our team win lose or draw,

Saturday 20 November 1971

FA Cup First Round. Rovers v Port Vale

on that day Rovers were sitting second bottom of the third division and playing Port Vale a division bellow us in the cup, we managed to scrape a draw, replay two days later Monday night off we go on our merry way on the good old Ribblesdale coaches for the replay,

Hammered 3-1... This is your Football Club im talking about, out of the cup bottom of the league no cash the lowest of the low with a one way ticket to oblivion

who to blame? Theres no protests at the games no arguing amongst fans no slagging the manager, players, the Chairman, Directors we were in the ######, why not blame the manager? He brought in the players, why not blame the players? Were they not trying, why not blame the Chairman? He selected the manager,why not blame the Directors? For not getting there hands in there pockets.

Thank god in those days we didn’t have all this crap we have now message-boards, twitters, skysports news, podcasts, radio phone ins, et al,

the only media then was the Evening Telegraph and the Blackburn Times and if I remember rightly they ran articles about the crisis Rovers were in and how the town was needed to rally or face the consequences, again nothing was written about whos to blame, basically support it or lose it.

Friday 26 November 1971

Tranmere Rovers v Blackburn Rovers

Four days after the debacle at Port Vale we had a friday night match at Tranmere Rovers who were struggling at the bottom with us, during the week Ken Furphy the manager at that time brought in desperation a centre half from Newcastle John Mcnamee, he was Mean! Those of you who remember Glen Keeley well he could have chewed him up for breakfast,

The Match!

The good people of Blackburn rallied to the call it seemed they were everywhere if I remember rightly we had two sides maybe three of the ground, The Support was unbelieveable this Football Club was not going to die, the people who it meant most too got behind this Football Club regardless of whos was blame for the predicament, we were together a Band of Brothers!

We won 3-1 that night and for the rest of the season coasted in mid-table

That was the bottom line for me, afterwards we set the third division alight maybe always the bridesmaid but never the bride, but we were one of the biggest clubs in that division for three years and didn’t we let other clubs know it when we travelled away!

What am I getting at you may all ask?

Simple!

You as Supporters as you say as you are are the life blood of this Football Club, This Football Club that I have loved for years, This Football Club that I and the Band of Brothers followed through the darkest days in Blackburn Rovers history, This Football Club that I have watched on over a hundred and two grounds, This Football Club that is the envy of most, This Football Club that has given you in the last two decades the League Title, League Cup, semi final after semi final, trips all over Europe, Jesus I used to think going Sheffield Wednesday was a big deal

Forget the Banners the Protests the Phone ins, Steve Kean, Venky`s Anderson, whos right whos wrong and all that ###### I cant believe when I come on this messageboard and others that so called supporters of my Football Club are hoping that Rovers lose, another one! Im not going tonight because im not giving any of my money to Venky`s

Please forget whatever agenda you have towards this current regime

as I said You (we) are the life blood of this Football Club don’t kill it

in the dark days of 1971 we the Supporters of this Great Club dragged it out of the mire

Blackburn Rovers Football Club needs you all again, “ARTE ET LABORE”

No smart arse comments if you have owt to say, say it to my face

Blackburn End NO3 Row3 Seat 103

im there EVERY home game are you?

Before I start I want to say your following of the Blues is admirable, it's thorough and it's distinguished. I am afraid to say though, it's irrelevant and to be honest, I couldn't care less when you went, what the weather was or how far back you can remember. Lets talk about here and now shall we? Also you can't come onto a forum and say "no smart arse comments". Did you think people were going to read it and say nothing? I will say what I have to say thank you, and if that isn't good enough i'll tell it to your face too.

So you love the club? Good - we all do. If you loved the club you would take off your rose tinted glasses off, get your head out of your arse and realise that this club you love is going down. If we are not careful it will go down to the depths you witnessed 200 years ago or whenever it was you bleated on about.

We are only loosely the life blood of the club. Thanks to TV money we are only a small part and as each day passes we are being more and more alienated by this motley crew. Should the club continue in this fashion it will get to a point were real TV money dries up i.e the Prem money.

Going of what you said I imagine you don't want relegation to kick us in the goolies come the end of the season. With that in mind I suggest you attempt to do something about it like the rest of the unhappy fans and have the idiot in charge removed before it's to late.

It's about time the blind faith lot started to realise that we cannot live in the past. Shearer is gone, the Prem trophy held at the top of the stairs in the Jack Walker side is 16 years old and King Kenny is in LIverpool slowly turning into an old man.

I struggle to see past next week because of these Venkys and Kean clowns, never mind looking forward.

I know you didn't say it in as many words in your post but I want to say that I am also sick and tired of the same old rhetoric that gets bounded about here and at Ewood in regards to not being a "proper fan". Just because I decided to not go to the Newcastle game, or because I speak out against Kean and Venkys does not make me any less of a fan than anyone else who doesn't do these things. I pay my money week in week out and I will say what the hell I like.

It's because I am a true fan that I have a voice and its because I really do give a monkeys toss about what goes on. Sitting at Ewood and blindly just accepting the crap that I see and hear isn't good enough for me.

Enough said there I think. See you all at the Chelsea massacre game.

[den]

Forget the Banners the Protests the Phone ins, Steve Kean, Venky`s Anderson, whos right whos wrong and all that ###### I cant believe when I come on this messageboard and others that so called supporters of my Football Club are hoping that Rovers lose, another one! Im not going tonight because im not giving any of my money to Venky`s

The ironic thing about your post doowe, is that you're asking fans not to protest against the people who have overseen thousands already walk away, with almost certainly more to follow. If you were really concerned that the fans stick with the club, wouldn't you want to see the back of Venky's and Kean - and wouldn't you like to say that?

[booth]

Venkys have made a pigs ear of it, of that there can be no doubt. Steve Kean should never have got the job and shouldn't have it now. However, I don't see how screaming abuse at somebody who is already struggling helps anybody but our opponents. That being said, it is clear now that there are those who have the temerity to claim that they are Rovers supporters, who actually want us to lose games.

Here's the problem. I have no problem with people protesting as what is happening to the club isn't a storm in a teacup that'll just blow over. But I do have a problem with people wanting the team to lose. My problem with it, besides the obvious, is that they believe that the more we lose, and the harder we fall, the more likely Kean will go. But we can see that obviously isn't the case so why pursue it. I always want Rovers to win, no matter who is in charge.

But back to the original post. All of those memories to do with the hardships in the past and the way that the fans and club stuck together. It's wonderful stuff. The thing is, how can you put those times in the same category as what's going on right now and what's gone for the last year or so?

Not once has the club experienced this dismay from the fans in this way. When Ince was in charge it wasn't like this. Ask yourself why.

One thing about Rovers fans is that if they know the club is being ran on a shoestring they will bear that in mind unlike some clubs fans, they know that the owners are trying their best. The manager is the best we can get in the circumstances. They know that the players are the best the club can muster.

But when you've seen your club systematically ripped apart, it's not quite like any of those memories that you posted. Back then it was mostly unavoidable. Right now, it's gross neglect.

[booth]

Bloody well done, and a fellow Accy lad at that. You have hit the proverbial nail for fans such as myself. I can't help but feel this has declined to a hodge podge of personal agendas rather than a true love for BRFC. Perhaps we will again decline to those dark days and the only fans still left will be those such as yourself, a part of me asks if that is really such a bad thing.

It's a personal agenda for me. My personal agenda is that I don't want to see my club in ruins.

But keep sitting on your hands and posting smileys, and if Kean is right and the likes of you are the majority you will get to see if the dark days are such a bad thing. Then give yourself a pat on the back at being a true fan. Well done you.

[doowe]

'None so blind as those who will not see'

This idiom is used when people refuse to accept facts presented to them. ('None so deaf as those who will not hear' is an alternative.)

[rebelmswar]

'None so blind as those who will not see'

This idiom is used when people refuse to accept facts presented to them. ('None so deaf as those who will not hear' is an alternative.)

Look in a mirror, they reflect just as much on you - just different sides.

[yoda]

Lets hope the RAF win the battle of Ewood on Saturday

[philipl]

Reading the posts on this thread is truly inspirational.

I know it is ridiculous on any logical basis but there is something deeply and truly humbling and awe-inspiring about following the Rovers.

A mere football club, yes, but a 136 year old (HAPPY BIRTHDAY ROVERS!!!) institution which has grown to become bigger than the town which it proudly carries the name of, more than the the successive generations of decent (and some indecent) folk for whom it has given meaning to and been the centre of the happy part of their lives, and greater than all of us individual supporters of today for whom it means so much, so passionately and so disproportionately to any rational explanation.

Through all this history Rovers have defied the odds and despite being good old little old Rovers from plucky Blackburn nestled in its millstone grit bowl a fraction the size of an average London suburb, we are one of the greats of English football and by extension are held in thrall by anyone in the football world- the world's game- who has even the slightest sense of the game's place and history.

This is the reason for the massive outpouring of angst.

It is why we howl in anger at the lilliputians from Pune, their studied ignorance, their love of the insubstantial and their worship of quick buck agents who care not a jot about decency, fair play, rules or brass tacks plain common sense.

To the Raos, I can only quote Oliver Cromwell's address to the Rump Parliament: "DEPART, I SAY, AND LET US HAVE DONE WITH YOU. IN THE NAME OF GOD, GO!."

[roversmum]

To the Raos, I can only quote Oliver Cromwell's address to the Rump Parliament: "DEPART, I SAY, AND LET US HAVE DONE WITH YOU. IN THE NAME OF GOD, GO!."

And then???????????????????

[roverandout]

sorry doowe, you may want to live in blissful ignorance but the rest of us dont, you can call me 'not a proper fan' just because i choose to get off my arse on a saturday/sunday morning and make my voice and opinion heard before and after a rovers game, at least people like me are trying to make a difference, trying to save our club from the depths of obscurity. When im at the games, i dont boo every players' name or boo the manager (though i dont aknowledge him either) i give my support. I have been going to rovers games for the last 20 years and i have seen the highs and lows, relegation and 2 seasons in the scrapyard of division 1. I know what its like to watch rovers play the likes of port vale, crewe and the dingles everyweek, i sat there in the freezing cold sometimes, wondering how we got into this, i dont want to go there again, thats why i am choosing to do this, so you wont have to either.

[philipl]

And then???????????????????

Sanity and security

[Speedie Dived]

sorry doowe, you may want to live in blissful ignorance but the rest of us dont, you can call me 'not a proper fan' just because i choose to get off my arse on a saturday/sunday morning and make my voice and opinion heard before and after a rovers game, at least people like me are trying to make a difference, trying to save our club from the depths of obscurity. When im at the games, i dont boo every players' name or boo the manager (though i dont aknowledge him either) i give my support. I have been going to rovers games for the last 20 years and i have seen the highs and lows, relegation and 2 seasons in the scrapyard of division 1. I know what its like to watch rovers play the likes of port vale, crewe and the dingles everyweek, i sat there in the freezing cold sometimes, wondering how we got into this, i dont want to go there again, thats why i am choosing to do this, so you wont have to either.

That's Doowe's point though, no matter where you watch Rovers it's still the Rovers. It's not about the league, the manager or the decade. It's about supporting 11 blokes in Blue and White.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

The few fans still against the protests should be glad we're still doing them. Its when we give up and stop coming that Rovers will really suffer. And believe me that will happen, if we go down and Kean is kept in charge, Rovers will lose a minumum of half their support.

[winstonsmith]

Theres no protests at the games no arguing amongst fans no slagging the manager, players, the Chairman, Directors we were in the ######, why not blame the manager? He brought in the players, why not blame the players? Were they not trying, why not blame the Chairman? He selected the manager,why not blame the Directors? For not getting there hands in there pockets.

Thank god in those days we didn’t have all this crap we have now message-boards, twitters, skysports news, podcasts, radio phone ins, et al,

the only media then was the Evening Telegraph and the Blackburn Times and if I remember rightly they ran articles about the crisis Rovers were in and how the town was needed to rally or face the consequences, again nothing was written about whos to blame, basically support it or lose it.

Forget the Banners the Protests the Phone ins, Steve Kean, Venky`s Anderson, whos right whos wrong and all that

quote]

Great post but I have to disagree with your conclusion because I believe that the fans need to take action to stop the destruction of the club and just cheering on the team at matches is not enough to do this. If you think Venky's have screwed up the football side of things, god only knows what state the finances are in ?

Ask yourself this -

In November 1971, did you believe that keeping Ken Furphy as manager would lead to certain relegation to the 4th Division and did you believe that the owners were in danger of destroying the club by their actions ?

I believe that is the danger we now face.

[Speedie Dived]

The few fans still against the protests should be glad we're still doing them. Its when we give up and stop coming that Rovers will really suffer. And believe me that will happen, if we go down and Kean is kept in charge, Rovers will lose a minumum of half their support.

Again proving Doowe's point completely.

[gumboots]

Sanity and security

Under whose ownership? Whilst I'd gladly see the back of the whole lot of them, Rao's, Desais, Andersens and Kean, who would buy us in the state we'd probably be left in? I'm not asking because I think we should keep them but because we'd need new owners and bearing in mind how long it took to find the rubbish we currently have, how would security come from a change of owners. It could be out of the frying pan into the fire.

[rebelmswar]

Again proving Doowe's point completely.

It’s not just that Speedie, it’s not just about plastic fans and granite fans; it’s about the entity that is Blackburn Rovers. I don’t know how you feel about it but Rovers is just as much part of my family as my sister in law, or cousin. It’s part of my day, my week, and my life. Parts of my life revolve around Rovers and I have emotional attachments to it as if it were truly part of my family.

You do not want your family to fail Speedie, you do not want it to become less than what it can be, and in my mind, should be. If your cousin was in an abusive relationship, or a highly negative one, you would want her to pull out of it - to do better for herself. You would not stand idly by and hope that things would get better, you would try and help the matter, you would be proactive.

Rovers without significant money from either Sky or the owners cannot be sustained in its present form, no way, no how, and there is no way that it can be argued that it can. We do not have the fans when things are going well, or the merchandising, franchises, whatever, to sustain what the club is now. If Kean does not become the resurrection and the light and pull off a miraculous conception of managerial aptitude we are pretty much out of the frying pan and into the inferno.

The club deserves better, WE CAN BE BETTER. We have the tools, the talent, but not a steady hand managerial wise. We do not really have a hand at all, we have the creature from the black lagoons twisted claw, a flaccid one at that.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

A rousing O/P Doowe, you have a good 15 years on me as I didn't start till going till 80/81 with me 'owd man. It is interesting looking back as I always relate to a Rovers apprenticeship, served in the Nuttall Street as a 7-12 yr old. Back then it seemed that Duncan McKenzie would destroy teams at will, Kevin Stonehouse would bang in a bicycle volley every week and of course the emergence of Mr Garner.

As a lad I was lucky enough to go to alot of away games with my dad and through junior Rovers. We used to take alot of fans away back then, even though home gates were poor (comparatively).

We are rovers, super rovers, we are rovers, from the North.

Moving into the Blackburn end during the teenage years, saw plenty of 'discoing' as the atmosphere in the BBE was often more fun than the games themselves. There was a lot more humour back then (alot of it probably considered purile and sexist now!) but the sense of belonging was there. As others have said, the club was skint but it was our club and we enjoyed it with a mixture of humour and pride. You could relate to the players then, even during the early nineties. Nowadays, the old BBE atmosphere has gone. There's still some humour but we sing about 5 songs and with seats facing towards the pitch, the banter with mates/others has disappeared. You can't escape from a crap performance these days!

So on to today and our present situation.

I enjoy watching good football, I was no fan of Allardyce but appreciated he was a steady pair of hands. Indeed at one point I argued I'd rather watch us play good football in the Championship than long ball rubbish in the Prem - to much derision from the likes of Theno IIRC . So to some extent, I may actually be getting what I wanted. Rather naively, I thought that once Allardyce had gone, we would bring in a manager of equal calibre with a different philosophy...

...but it didn't come, instead we had an unproven manager, with in fairness, a decent footballing philosophy. It was on this basis that I supported Kean initially. It is clear to me now, that whilst the 'attacking football' has improved, the defensive side is appalling. It would seem over the last few years that there is no happy medium.

Now here's the crux of my feelings. I am competitive and proud to follow BRFC and I hold my hand up - when push comes to shove, I don't want to see us relegated especially on the never to be seen 'promise' of good football. It seems to me, that the only way to avoid relegation, is for the manager to leave (and one we expected 12 months ago installing). if we still go down then fair enough, at least we tried something.

The last 12 months have been the worst I can remember as a supporter. We have been lied to, made a mockery of, witnessed some appalling performances and become a national joke. I am not in the least militant and reasonably laid back about most things in life, yet I have protested. It seems such a straightforward move to replace the manager and I cannot see for the life of me why the owners will not.

Are the protests the right thing to do? I'm genuinely not sure. I feel I have given the team 100% support on match days and always will. I also feel a damn site better for protesting because I hate watching my club fall to pieces.

As fans we are now damned if we do, damned if we don't. Those who protest will have to swallow their pride should Kean turn it around and believe me I will be happy to do it - I really hope we are the ones that are wrong.

The modern game and match experience has changed. Those fans who enjoyed the 70's & 80's saw football change in the 90's and naughties. The old days were great, the future is unknown, It is only the 'now' that we can try and effect. We each do that in the way we best see fit.

WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO DO IS CUT OUT THIS "YOU'RE NOT A FAN IF..." MENTALITY.

Because one way or the other, next season, we will all be united again cheering on Rovers, Be it under Kean/A.N other in the Prem or Kean/A.N other in the Championship.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Again proving Doowe's point completely.

Does it? Maybe those fans sincerely believe there is no Blackburn Rovers left. In the "dark days" he was talking about, did we have owners as callous, unconcerned, reckless, destructive and downright stupid as Venkys? If a bunch of Burnley fans took over Rovers, would you still consider it Rovers? They could do no worse a job than Venkys are doing.

The owners are seemingly hell bent on destruction of the club, the manager is an empty puppet, the senior management structure has been wiped out, the fans are totally ignored and the playing staff is being slowly decimated to be replaced with a sports agency's waste products. Does this even sound like a football club, never mind proud little Blackburn Rovers? The way things are going eventually there will be very little of anything of this club left.

As much as I admire the gritting one's teeth and trying not to let it affect you attitude, my approach is do something, do anything to prevent this. I literally can't believe the attitude of the majority of our fans who are yet to join the protests. Have so few of us any fire in our bellies to fight what is happening?

[bob fleming]

Sanity and security

I'd be more than happy with sanity. Not sure we'll ever have security again.

Thanks a lot Venkys.

[rebelmswar]

I'd be more than happy with sanity.

Had it, lost it, dont want it back. Its a total downer.