[Archived] Do you approve of the protests?

[sijoco]

protests can be organic and not planned.

/quote]

...and l think this is the way we go now. I agree Glen and Simon have taken this as far as they can, and l for one take my hat off to them.

I can't remember the last time l was searched at a match at Ewood so today is the last straw. I had the police taking pictures in my direction and l was stood with my son. I'd smack someone for being a pedophile if they did this anywhere else. I'm treated like a criminal when l take my son to the football on a Saturday afternoon. Why? Because Venky's think we are second class citizens that we can be bought or downtrodden. I've had enough. It's time for this protesting to stop being so accommodating.

[readsi3k]

Performances, schmeformances.

Playing well and still losing for the last five games does not give me any hope that we'll soon "turn the corner".

We need to lock the back door, become hard to beat. We keep on leaking goals. You can't say we've been unlucky for five games on the spin. If Kean gets binned and someone better takes off then there would be a positive reaction that may just start a chain reaction.

I just can't go with this "the players are playing well, we must not upset them" mode of thinking at all, I'm sorry.

All academic though, as he won't get sacked.

We have been more of a match against top teams at home and have lost by narrow margins - not the stuff of relegation fodder. We are the only team to have beaten Newcastle this season, and it deserved to be more comfortable than it was in the end. The Norwich game was just shocking luck all round. Most neutrals/the press seem to agree that we're playing well and just need something to go in our favour.

[roverandout]

i got searched a few weeks ago before a game, i was gobsmacked.

[broadsword]

We've lost five out of 6 at home. I wouldn't go using our home record to support your argument. The only reason we beat Arsenal is because they were all over the shop. And even then we needed them to do most of the scoring for us.

As for beating Newcastle, I don't think they put their strongest side out. And it was a league cup game, so not as much of a priority.

Time will reveal all, but I'm not convinced all will be well because we're playing great and losing/drawing every week. Maybe we're due a bad performance soon if we've been putting consistently good games in. Especially if we've been losing.

I don't think your argument has any solidity at all, and is borne purely of hope. I obviously hope you're right, but can't help thinking you're wrong.

[readsi3k]

We've lost five out of 6 at home. I wouldn't go using our home record to support your argument. The only reason we beat Arsenal is because they were all over the shop. And even then we needed them to do most of the scoring for us.

As for beating Newcastle, I don't think they put their strongest side out. And it was a league cup game, so not as much of a priority.

Time will reveal all, but I'm not convinced all will be well because we're playing great and losing/drawing every week. Maybe we're due a bad performance soon if we've been putting consistently good games in. Especially if we've been losing.

I don't think your argument has any solidity at all, and is borne purely of hope. I obviously hope you're right, but can't help thinking you're wrong.

Newcastle put virtually their strongest available XI out.

We've lost 5 out of 6 at home, but look at quality the teams we've been playing and narrow margins we've lost by - these difficult home games are now behind us. Also consider the Everton debaccle - another example of shocking luck over which Kean had no control.

[broadsword]

Let's agree to disagree, time will tell and if I'm proven wrong I will gladly hold my hand up.

[FourLaneBlue]

Newcastle put virtually their strongest available XI out.

We've lost 5 out of 6 at home, but look at quality the teams we've been playing and narrow margins we've lost by - these difficult home games are now behind us. Also consider the Everton debaccle - another example of shocking luck over which Kean had no control.

What is this? 101 great excuses?

Kean has been in charge for coming up to a year now. How big is this damn corner? Seems like we've been turning it for months and months by now!

[Miker]

One thing I'm not sure about though is how effective the protests are. I think they are effective in the sense that they are keeping media attention surrounding our club firmly on the protests and the fans' displeasure at Kean (and now Venky's). However, I don't think it's having that strong an effect on the owners themselves.

I have 2 theories for what's happening in the Venky's reasoning right now:

1.) They have taken the fans' opinion on board a long time ago already, but despite continuous calls to sack Kean, they have reasons to believe it's not the best solution, or they are unable to find a better solution and therefore have to continue to back him and the team.

2.) They are ignoring the fans because despite anti-Kean feeling obviously being quite high, it's not the first time that sections of the supporters have been unhappy with the manager (Ince and Allardyce). People wanted Allardyce out in his first full season in charge as well when we were on a bad run, until he gave us a cup semi and a 10th place finish.

It could be a mixture of both to be honest.

Wanted to quote this, as I think this is the issue with the protests and the lack of effect. Especially if its perceived as certain sections of the supporters only.

Although there was outrage against Allardyce being sacked last year, I think people have forgotten the widespread condemnation, criticism and booing that occurred in his last 3 games in charge from sections of supporters. First after the thrashing against United, then the booing after 3-0 up against Wolves and finally the criticism after an unlucky defeat against Bolton.

Venky's have people monitor this board and make no mistake, we are just seen as a whinging minority.

They'll sack Kean when the team starts playing poorly and gets thumped every game like against Man City and the entire stadium starts to boo.

People are right, it can't get any worse, but things CAN get better. I think at the moment people are split in their opinion whether they can get better under the same manager or a new one. There is a lot of evidence now, with improved performances (and I don't mean just pretty football, but better team setup and selections), that it CAN get better under Kean, so it's understandable why people are unwilling to protest now.

For me, if you offered me a manager like Hughes as a replacement tomorrow, I would be overjoyed. If you offered me some average manager from the Championship, I would feel rather nonplussed about it.

[booth]

I do agree there about being a bit OTT saying banning banners is disrespect for servicemen thats a bit of a strawman for me, still a ridiculous decision though.

OTT perhaps but I can understand what he's saying.

Without the many brave soldiers we may not have had the free speech we have today due to the rise of fascism. Today when I entered Ewood Park, I got a taste of what that may be like. Very odd indeed when you're going to watch a football game and you're constantly watching what you shout in the heat of the moment. What if I shout "come on Kean, sort the team out?" That acceptable? Who knows. I only tried to take a picture of the sky and I got a public slating from a steward.

I was seeing people all over the ground being stopped, spoken to by stewards, some even ejected. Disgraceful. The sad thing is the club has spent years trying to expand the fanbase and some of these mistreated fans will never come back. If I'd have been ejected today after decades of being a loyal fan it would have been very difficult to take.

Never had that feeling of being fearful of being ejected before at Ewood, or any sporting event I've ever attended.

I know of at least one well known manager within Rovers that disagrees with the way that things are going "security-wise". He can't say anything of course because he wouldn't be "toeing the line."

Just the same, as fans we're being seen just the same way as the employees and we're expected to "toe the line" as well.

All Hail the Teachings of our Dear Leader... Or you're out.

This is Blackburn Rovers 2011.

[Speedie Dived]

Am I on some sort of naughty list then?

I didn't agree with the banner banning and fully respect your right to protest. Who coud know if the plane cost us the game today - I thought the game died off a bit towards the end of the 1st half, but we don't know if the plane was to blame (I explained this in the post you didn't read). I don't think that protesting, especially during the game, is going to encourage the team/create a positive atmosphere.

I don't think banning banners shows a lack of respect for servicemen though - I think you're being harsh/OTT there.

I actually think you have made some very valid points regarding the team. We are fitter and playing better (due to Clement and new first team fitness coach?).

I personally agree that the game did die off towards the end of the first half, but think it was more to due with Cech's long injury affecting the game.

[darwenfish]

In response to Booth's comments I am afraid I have already seen the response from shouting 'Sort your subs out Kean' and nothing more. This was at the Newcastle game-the two guys in front of us in the lower tier of the Jack Walker said this and a member of Rover's ground staff made a personal verbal attack on them and ourselves. He had to be calmed down by a steward.Ironically at 90mins the foul mouthed Newcastle fan behind us stood up to cheer and it took a request from Rover's supporters to get them removed from the area).I took in letter in to the Club focusing on the lack of professional behaviour from the employee in question and got an email back from Paul Hunt's administrator that did not include any type of apology and disregarded any salient points related to the incident. Sad days indeed.

[chris]

People are right, it can't get any worse, but things CAN get better.

what kind of comment is that, it can get MUCH MUCH worse.

We can become adrift at the bottom.

Jan Hoillet leaves

We get relgated Kean stays on

We are forced to sell assets Olssen, Lowe, Givet, Samba, Nzonzi and Rochina and others.

Owners decide to sell the club and offer no support

The club is deducted 10 points as it goes into admin.

We are relegated to league 1

[philipl]

Oh dear, it can and is getting much worse.

[Mercer]

Oh dear, it can and is getting much worse.

Philip - can you be brutally honest and give us your doomsday scenario with no holds barred.

[broadsword]

Could you have a look at this please phil and give me your thoughts, thanks

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php/topic/25489-venkys-do-you-support-them-as-owners-of-the-club/page__view__findpost__p__1170997

[Miker]

what kind of comment is that, it can get MUCH MUCH worse.

I really shouldn't have to explain this but ok...

I am talking about Kean and results-wise.

If Kean continues with his current points ratio, we will still get relegated.

Yes? Agree? OK.

If Kean continues, but improves his current points ratio, then maybe we can escape relegation.

If Kean is sacked, and a new manager is installed, who can get a better points ratio than Kean, then maybe we can escape relegation.

If Kean is sacked, and a new manager is installed, but he continues with the same or worse point ratio, we will still get relegated.

There are 4 scenarios:

a.) We continue as we have so far and get relegated

b.) Kean improves and we don't get relegated

c.) A new manager is installed who is an improvement and we don't get relegated

d.) A new manager is installed who is NOT an improvement and we get relegated

Now can you say with 100% certainty that scenario B or D can't happen, and that scenario A or C can? If not, then imagine how much certainty a pro-Kean supporter has for each scenario. Now, imagine what degree of certainty Venky's have.

Posting on this messageboard is really becoming a chore...

[benmancrover]

On the Riverside yesterday I bumped into an old work colleague who is more than 30 years my senior. I hadn't seen him for a while and asked his opinion on Kean. His immediate reply was to ask if I'd been joining the protests. When I told him I had he said he was completely against it. Of course he's entitled to his opinion as much as anyone else but what really shocked and frankly disappointed me was his next comment.

He believes the protests are racially motivated against Venky's and wouldn't be happening had they been British. He went on to say the majority of the protesters 'probably vote BNP'. I found myself getting incredibly annoyed and told him he was out of order and there was absolutely nothing to base this on.

He went on to say he's being entertained (which he wasn't at all under Allardyce) and we're playing some good football. He also claimed he's 'seen far worse managers at Rovers in his time'. I asked him is Kean's record good enough and quoted the number of league games played and won under Kean. His response to this was that 'it'll come good, you just need some patience'. This was beginning to rile me so I pointed out that it's because of fans like him sitting on their hands and hoping things will turn round that will see us relegated. I asked if he'd be happy to see us in the Championship next year as Kean's record suggests that's where we'd be. Again, the response was 'it won't happen'.

This was followed by him questioning Coyle at Bolton. I told him Coyle had proven himself to be competent as a manager after doing a superb job at the Dingles and has links and affinity to Bolton which Kean has neither with us.

Where am I going with this you might ask? Kean still being in charge has clearly divided the fan base. We have far too many fans who are prepared to sit back and watch the decline and do/say nothing about it. The fact that there is now so much discussion or even arguments in the stands and the lengths people are going to in order to try to force change at the club should be ringing alarm bells with the owners. Kean should never have been appointed in the first place, then should have gone immediately after the Wolves game in May and certainly still shouldn't be here now. This could all be remedied by the owners now by sacking Kean.

[K-Hod]

I'm glad people are taking the initiative to do something, but the protests are clearly not effective, and just getting a bit silly now. Singing 'Kean out' as soon as we go 1-0 down at home to Chelsea just smacks of sour grapes IMO.

It's a powerless feeling at the moment, but a change of tactic is needed because the protests are becoming a circus now.

[darwenblueswearehere]

To fly the plane over the grond during the game surely can't have a positive impact on the team? The protest is meant to have Rovers best interests at heart, yet there was a very real chance this could/did affect the team. I noticed a very tense atmosphere in the ground after the initial humorous cheering at the planes arrival, followed by the few hundred in the BBE shouting 'Kean Out' being completely outshouted by a round of RTID. There was also a few chanting in the Darwen End - but it was obviously a small minority of the crowd. Strong words were exchanged between fans I also thought the game was flat between the arrival of the plane and half time, although it's hard to pinpoint the causality of this on the plane.

It's clear that fans are divided on the protesting issue and I'm not sure that the poll above is representative of the fanbase at large. The anti-Kean feelings of quite a few on this forum seem to have a self-perpetuating effect on many of the others, and I don't think such strong feelings are prevalent amongst fans as a whole. Did 34% (the figure who have voted that they take part in the poll above at time of writing) of the total fans stay behind tonight? It probably closer to 2 or 3%. I've seen a smaller poll on another forum, with 80% thinking the protests aren't a good idea. I could theorise at length on why I think feelings are so much stronger on here than they are overall, but that's a different topic.

Harping on about win %'s gives a very narrow view of the situation at large - our last 5 performances have been good and we have been denied points by poor refereeing and the cutting edge that the top teams have in front of goal. In win % terms, Kean is worse than Ince, yet its obvious to most that we are playing much better than we were back then - we mustn't forget some strong draws under Kean and shocking luck. The players are behind Kean and it would be difficult to argue that if we continue recent form into the next 5 games, against much easier opposition, that we won't pick up points. I think a lot recognise this and this has bought patience from some sections of the crowd. Sacking Kean now, when the players back him, could make things much worse. That isn't to say I would shed a tear if Kean was to go, because his record is very poor - I just think we're improving at the moment. I know plenty of people who are firmly in the 'Kean Out' camp who have called the protests embarrassing.

I do get the feeling that some of the protesters get a kick off stirring it all up. Some of the personal stuff that has been aimed at Kean has been very disappointing and the whole thing feels like a witchhunt. There is so much negativity around the ground being caused by these protests. It's clear that the owners aren't going to sack the manager on the back of narrow defeats to top teams and I doubt they'll sympathise with protestors if they turn the protests at them. I really hope everyone can just unite and support the team - if things are going badly in a match, then make your feelings known - but I think preplanned demonstrations before a ball has even been kicked and planes flying over the ground during games aren't going to help anyone.

I also couldn't give two hoots about the inevitable -/ve's I'm going to get for this post.

I agree with most of this. Particularly your view of Kean. However what I would say about the plane yesterday is that (for me) it was as much to do with railing against the fascism of the banner banning as it was to do with sacking Kean.

[scotty_beam_me_up]

The protests are making us a laughing stock. Yesterday I saw grown men throwing balloons around which looked like they had been scribbled on by toddlers. There were people singing the theme to the great escape when they meant to be singing the dam busters theme. And as for the plane we couldve been one nil up against Chelsea with a plane going round the ground!!

None of this will get the manager removed. The arrival of Paul Clement has seen some improved performances and I for one hope Kean turns it around. If only so the protesters look more ridiculous than they do now.

[John]

We could have been one nil up but surprisingly weren't, we could have got a draw possibly but didn't.

[chris]

I really shouldn't have to explain this but ok...

I am talking about Kean and results-wise.

If Kean continues with his current points ratio, we will still get relegated.

Yes? Agree? OK.

If Kean continues, but improves his current points ratio, then maybe we can escape relegation.

If Kean is sacked, and a new manager is installed, who can get a better points ratio than Kean, then maybe we can escape relegation.

If Kean is sacked, and a new manager is installed, but he continues with the same or worse point ratio, we will still get relegated.

There are 4 scenarios:

a.) We continue as we have so far and get relegated

b.) Kean improves and we don't get relegated

c.) A new manager is installed who is an improvement and we don't get relegated

d.) A new manager is installed who is NOT an improvement and we get relegated

Now can you say with 100% certainty that scenario B or D can't happen, and that scenario A or C can? If not, then imagine how much certainty a pro-Kean supporter has for each scenario. Now, imagine what degree of certainty Venky's have.

Posting on this messageboard is really becoming a chore...

Although you think you are being smart in your answer, you are actually not

Can I see into the future? Agree? yes

It's fairly obvious to most people that to bring in a good manager would make a difference you only have to look at Ince/Sam or Kidd/Souness even Harford/Parkes to see the massive difference one can make.

When Parkes took over from Harford he got to tactics perfect, he dropped Bohinen, he introduced Mckinlay ball winner, introduced a Sutton dying of confidence.

Harford averaged results that would have got us 20th

Parkes got results that would have got us to 9th

We are not talking about being 100% certain we are talking about massively increasing our chances or staying up.

So it's fair to say that having a good manager would massively increase our chance of staying up.

Every game it can get worse because it means less time to get someone else in and turn it around.

I'm sure everyone on this board will agree it can get worse becuase we are running out of time.

[scotty_beam_me_up]

Thanks for your constructive reply. You've totally picked apart my argument and changed my view.

Read are you not aware that if you have a differing view you are not allowed to air it??? You'll be getting branded a "keanette" next which keeps happening to me on here!!

[readsi3k]

On the Riverside yesterday I bumped into an old work colleague who is more than 30 years my senior. I hadn't seen him for a while and asked his opinion on Kean. His immediate reply was to ask if I'd been joining the protests. When I told him I had he said he was completely against it. Of course he's entitled to his opinion as much as anyone else but what really shocked and frankly disappointed me was his next comment.

He believes the protests are racially motivated against Venky's and wouldn't be happening had they been British. He went on to say the majority of the protesters 'probably vote BNP'. I found myself getting incredibly annoyed and told him he was out of order and there was absolutely nothing to base this on.

He went on to say he's being entertained (which he wasn't at all under Allardyce) and we're playing some good football. He also claimed he's 'seen far worse managers at Rovers in his time'. I asked him is Kean's record good enough and quoted the number of league games played and won under Kean. His response to this was that 'it'll come good, you just need some patience'. This was beginning to rile me so I pointed out that it's because of fans like him sitting on their hands and hoping things will turn round that will see us relegated. I asked if he'd be happy to see us in the Championship next year as Kean's record suggests that's where we'd be. Again, the response was 'it won't happen'.

This was followed by him questioning Coyle at Bolton. I told him Coyle had proven himself to be competent as a manager after doing a superb job at the Dingles and has links and affinity to Bolton which Kean has neither with us.

Where am I going with this you might ask? Kean still being in charge has clearly divided the fan base. We have far too many fans who are prepared to sit back and watch the decline and do/say nothing about it. The fact that there is now so much discussion or even arguments in the stands and the lengths people are going to in order to try to force change at the club should be ringing alarm bells with the owners. Kean should never have been appointed in the first place, then should have gone immediately after the Wolves game in May and certainly still shouldn't be here now. This could all be remedied by the owners now by sacking Kean.

I think he recognises what a lot of the fanbase do at the moment, that performances are improving. I think there is a more extreme 'anti-Kean' feeling on this forum than with people I speak to elsewhere (with this feeling likely to be self perpetuating), although I doubt many would be sad to see him go. Many on here now appear to have so much derision for Kean, that they can no longer view his performances objectively, and for them it seems he can do nothing but wrong.

Without wishing to blur my feelings about the protests with my feelings about Keans tenure, I feel that he deserves at least the Wigan game and a chance to see if our upturn in form can be converted to points against poorer opposition.

[T4E]

Read are you not aware that if you have a differing view you are not allowed to air it??? You'll be getting branded a "keanette" next which keeps happening to me on here!!

That sort of post is getting incredibly boring and adds nothing. If you want so badly to air your views I will gladly give you a chance by asking two questions -

1. Do you think Kean should go?

2. If yes, what do you think the fans should do about it?