[Archived] Did Big Sam ruin Rovers fans?

[BigAlan]

Morning all. There's no doubt that this is one of the toughest and strangest times to be a Rovers fan. Forgetting all the conspiracy theories etc. why are there still fans supporting Steve Kean? I wouldn't even say its the vast minority judging on the atmosphere and acceptance at the ground. So why is a manager, who's record is atrocious and would have been sacked anywhere else, allowed so much time? I've done a lot of reading through comments on various sites, and there's one common defence for Kean. That seems to be the football is much better than it was under Big Sam. With all due respect to Sam, he did a fine job in maintaining our Premier League status. But, has his style of football bored the fans so much causing this allowance of time for someone, no matter how poor the results have been, who plays football on the ground?

[Jackson]

A fair point. There has to be many reasons why Mr. Kean has been given an extraordinary amount of time. My opinion is that the main reason isn't the desire of more attractive football, but the fear of losing face that is driving the Rao's to maintain Kean's status despite loss after loss. By sacking SA, they put their hand on the table and appear to be overtly and unreasonably tenacious in their attempts to keep it there.

I would, however, appeal to the siblings to reconsider the question of face. Because if loss of face is having to relieve Mr. Kean of his duties at this juncture, then the specture of West Ham overtaking us in the Summer and, worse for them still, potentially buying some of our players in the process, would, in comparison, be more akin to decapitation.

[den]

The football is worse than it was under Sam, so to answer your question - no, Sam hasn't spoiled us. Why do people still support Kean, well I guess it's just the loyalty factor. It probably hurts them as individuals to even contemplate criticising the club.

[47er]

No.

[Rovers_786]

Big sam was doing OK, for us he was stabbed in the back by kean and the venkys a fact.

[Mercer]

We never had it so good !

I have little doubt that 99% of supporters wish that we could turn back the calendar 12 months.

One of the most galling aspects now is that Kean, having initially abandoned the more direct approach (throw ins from Peders, free kicks from Robbo etc), has clearly reverted back to such tactics in recent times. Would rather have an original than a fake imitation any day of the week!

[Mattyblue]

I agree Alan.

There are those around me that slagged off Allardyce constantly, win lose or draw. These very same people are pretty much to a man in the 'get behind 'em', 'we are playing well', 'some good football on show' and so on camp.

Football is about results, end of. This is particulary the case for a club like Rovers whose entire business model is reliant on Premier League status.

However, for some fans their irrational loathing of our perevious manager and their huge exaggeated view of 'his cr@p football' has blinded them to the true direness of our situation.

[spencey7]

The football is worse than it was under Sam

Absolute complete and utter rubbish. No-one with functioning eyes in their head could possibly make this claim with a straight face.

I was the happiest man on the planet when Venkys sacked Allardyce, and a great many other Rovers fans (I would still contend, the majority) celebrated with me. Where our new owners went wrong was to appoint Kean full-time, and talk him up as if he was the new Alex Ferguson. (With hindsight this was clearly a combination of staggering inexperience and being manipulated by the wrong people.)

There are still a huge, huge number of fans simply glad that the Allardyce era is over. That we have skilful players on the pitch at Ewood trying things - Formica, Rochina, Hoilett (who, lets not forget, didn't get a look-in under the previous regime) - as opposed to Diouf, Goulon and van Heerden.

Don't get me wrong - Kean is the wrong man, and did nothing to warrant his promotion other being an SEM client and brown-nosing the right people at the right time, but I completely understand why he retains some sympathy and support amongst Rovers fans.

[Ralfinho]

Sam was working within a very limited budget and he got the best out of the players we had and played to their strengths i.e Pedersen long throw for Samba to flick on (I remember a few of those against Chelsea last week) But if they had kept hold of Sam and given him some cash In Jan then he could have changed the dynamics of the team and also adjust the playing style as well. This attractive football comment from Venky's has come from Keans mouth. Remember when they bought us they had never watched a game of football before so how could they come out and make that statement? I honestly think those loyal to Kean could be counted on a few peoples hands and the sooner he is gone the better

[den]

Well that's fine then Spencey. Glad you're happy seeing the back of Sam and watching us shipping goals. That's a big improvement and far more enjoyable.

.

[spencey7]

Well that's fine then Spencey. Glad you're happy seeing the back of Sam and watching us shipping goals. That's a big improvement and far more enjoyable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoG1ltIE_Po

He wasn't the messiah so many on here seem to believe he was. Don't let the present cloud your perception of the past.

[Emge]

On the Norwegian PL-channel, we got sooooo much stick for the football we played under Big Sam, and I have to admit, at the time, I wasnt always too pleased about the football we played, but now looking back, I would soo much rather have Allardyce than Steve Kean obviously.

Just because we are now trying to keep the ball on the ground as much as possible and have more possesion rather than long balls and cynical football, doesnt mean that we are "playing really well" like Kean always claim we do. Playing well is also about getting the result, like Big Sam was all about - clean sheets was something he always talked about and getting the result. Kean is not getting the results obviously and we dont really seem to have a plan (although as many have said the last few matches has been slightly better - probably because of Paul Clement).

[Mattyblue]

Rubbish spencey.

Were a 'majority' not into Allardyce style football? Probably.

Were a 'majority' celebrating a good manager being sacked in the middle of the season? No way.

[Jimmy612]

Absolute complete and utter rubbish. No-one with functioning eyes in their head could possibly make this claim with a straight face.

I was the happiest man on the planet when Venkys sacked Allardyce, and a great many other Rovers fans 1)(I would still contend, the majority) celebrated with me.

There are still a huge, huge number of fans simply glad that the Allardyce era is over. 2)That we have skilful players on the pitch at Ewood trying things - Formica, Rochina, Hoilett (who, lets not forget, didn't get a look-in under the previous regime) -3)as opposed to Diouf, Goulon and van Heerden.

Don't get me wrong - Kean is the wrong man, and did nothing to warrant his promotion other being an SEM client and brown-nosing the right people at the right time, but I completely understand why he retains some sympathy and support amongst Rovers fans.

1)On what basis do you contend that? Take a look at the polls that were created when Allardyce was sacked, fairly sure the majority voted that he shouldn't have been.

2) Everyone likes a skillful player, but PL football for teams like us isn't about nice football, it's about results football. Ask any manager with a similar club e.g. Wolves, Stoke (even though they have far more money), Everton, Bolton. Only Martinez insists on nice football and look where wigan are.

3)Diouf would still be a useful player at our club if Kean hadn't cut him adrift. Premier League footballer with bags of experience, good around the dressing room, and a great work ethic on the pitch. I'm curious, why choose Goulon and Van Heerden, whom between them amassed about 106 minutes of PL football between them. Why not discuss N'Zonzi? And anyway what did Goulon and Van Heerden cost the club?

Football isn't about trying to out pass teams, its about outscoring them. Surely you learnt this from the Ince era? Try to play all the football you like, you'l lose more games than you win in the PL.

Kean is starting to realise that, haven't you noticed Robbo's long freekicks, or Peds long throws creeping back into our game? They were seemingly banned until Blackpool at home last season. And i'm not even sure Kean made the decision to bring them back.

[Parsonblue]

While the football might not always have been easy on the eye the fact is that Big Sam got results and football is a results business. Watching the Rovers every week - home and away - is far less enjoyable this season because we can't get a result. The fact that we have played well in a few games means little if you are bottom of the League. Personally, I don't find watching Rochina, Formica, Hoilett and the like enjoyable when we are losing. If we were winning it would be a different matter but we are not. We are losing on a regular basis and somehow I can't see those players being much use to the club in the Championship.

Sam, like Hughes and Souness before him, built sides that could grind out results because with a limited budget that's what you have to do. Hughes brought in Mokoena to do the dirty work in front of the back four. Today we have a midfield, with the exception of Nzonzi, who are so lightweight that they are unable to tackle - an example being Hoilett's pitiful attempt at a tackle in the build up to the Chelsea goal.

Football requires a mixture of skills and Kean simply hasn't built a team that can win. At the end of the day the fact that attendances are far lower at Ewood Park this season than at anytime under Sam suggests that most supporters want to see their team win. If they can win playing good football that's a bonus. But it's winning that counts. Sadly, the present team and manager find winning somewhat difficult.

[jim mk2]

I was the happiest man on the planet when Venkys sacked Allardyce, and a great many other Rovers fans (I would still contend, the majority) celebrated with me.

Just shows that the 19th century Education Acts giving free education to the masses was a complete waste of time.

[glen9mullan]

This is an intriguing debate because I feel Sam has been harshly dealt with by the press for "So called Long Balls"

When at Bolton he had JJ , Djorkaeff, Hierro etc just to name a few. His team played fast flowing football which was attractive and effective. He also knew how to toughen his sides up against teams which played similar types of football.

When he came Rovers he inherited a very poor team which Ince had assembled, we lacked any real ball players and he had very little money given to him to assemble his own team. It was all about playing to our strengths (No point playing Barca style when we had players like Andrews and not Messi) He also was hit with injuries hence big Chris having to be used as an emergency striker.

He brought Phil Jones through due to our injury problems, but played football to suit the tools int he tool box, getting points was the name of the game, this is something he has always managed to do in the Premier league.

We no longer had the flair of Bentley or a fit Santa Cruz, Whilst Benni had eaten all the free samples of Venkys chicken which had been sent over prior to a takeover.

He kept against all the odds one of the poorest Rovers teams in recent years up, and this was after we looked like this season nailed on for relegation. Wages restrictions put paid to him signing Guti and Raul, which had they been sanctioned would of changed our team dramatically.

Steve Kean has played on this football brand a little to much and tried to run before he can walk by bringing in too many flair players and not enough ball winners who can win ugly.

A sign of a good team is winning games when you play badly, RE Chelsea on Saturday when they were very poor, Rovers can't win when they play really well, which is not a good thing.

If you go back through all our games under Kean, the amount of times we have gone back to Sam tactics to try and grab a goal is remarkable, and we have scored plenty of goals under Kean by playing the same football Sam would play to grind out a result.

Sams philosophy at Rovers was "Be hard to beat" If he had been given cash then I'm pretty sure our brand of football would of been much better and we would still be hard to beat. People mocked his signings at Newcastle but he made some good signings which took time to settle, Enrique being a good example of this.

I never ever wanted Sam sacking, and was pleased we got him and will always be in his debt for keeping is up. No-one else in my honest opinion could have kept us up the season Ince was sacked. Managers like Sam are hard to come by, he can attract topm players and can play many different styles of football. As a Manager he makes the formation and tactics fit to what players he has. If you gave him a squad of ball players then they would play fast attractive football. He is doing a fine job at West Ham and they lost quite a lot of players in the summer, but the culture shock of the Championship has not effected his team. I'm pretty sure West Ham will come back up this season, and I sincerely hope its not at our expense

[AllRoverAsia]

The answer to the question is YES.

Under Allardyce (and Souness and Hughes) we had normal people in charge. Yes they all had their own flaws but nothing to compare with Kean IMO.

Allardyce didn't just play hoofball and for sure Kean's teams do not just play a pretty passing game.

After the Spurs game VDV and after the Chelsea game AVB said that Rovers play longball - when MBP is in the team why not use him for throws and freekicks. How many times does Robbo throw the ball out or kick short? We now play too much longball because we amazingly do not have a striker who can head the ball.

Virtually everyone agrees that the ultimate judge of a Manager are the results and points on the board - and BFS wins that one hands down.

Who sold Kalinic, a footballing striker that BFS bought, and replaced him with Goodwillie and Yak - ?

[Mattyblue]

As always Parson, spot on. Amazing that people still try and justify what hapenned last December.

[Jimmy612]

He wasn't the messiah so many on here seem to believe he was. Don't let the present cloud your perception of the past.

Well what a ridiculous thing to put on the message board

Why don't I post the Arsenal 8-2 fiasco? Or perhaps City drubbing United 6-1.

One game against one of the best teams in the world means nothing. The game against wolves (3-0) the next week was far more important.

[chris]

Sam just didn't have the resources to make Blackburn a flair team, if you have almost no money, infact I believe are 20th in the "spending verse investment" table...

then you have to get results. at all costs

Kean is trying to make an attacking beautiful football team signing players for 2 or 3 million, thats why he has been so unsuccessful.

Where as real experienced managers at Stoke, Newcastle or Everton are buying players that get results.

Kean's best players BY FAR are the players he was given in Nzonzi, Holliet Olssen, Samba and Robbo.

The comment "We lost but the fans can see we are playing well" this could become a comon feature under Kean, becuase we are build to look good, a real manager would build us to be tough and grind out results.

some fans don't understand this, experienced managers know its all about results.

[ABBEY]

Hated ince hated zzzam and hate kean and venkys!!!

But love rovers!!!!!

[philipl]

We never had it so good !

I have little doubt that 99% of supporters wish that we could turn back the calendar 12 months.

One of the most galling aspects now is that Kean, having initially abandoned the more direct approach (throw ins from Peders, free kicks from Robbo etc), has clearly reverted back to such tactics in recent times. Would rather have an original than a fake imitation any day of the week!

totally agree.

I think Sam was working within the boyunds of a very limited squad which didn't have many goals in it so he made us very difficult to play against especially at home.

Even now after the Sam-ification of Kean's approach (which some posters are hailing as great football by the way), opposition players are given complete freedom up to the edge of our box- something Sam would have been apoplectic about.

Sam's West Ham are scoring a lot of goals by the way which I think his Rovers would have done if only he'd been given a bit of money to work with.

[ABBEY]

Sam just didn't have the resources to make Blackburn a flair team, if you have almost no money, infact I believe are 20th in the "spending verse investment" table...

then you have to get results. at all costs

Kean is trying to make an attacking beautiful football team signing players for 2 or 3 million, thats why he has been so unsuccessful.

Where as real experienced managers at Stoke, Newcastle or Everton are buying players that get results.

Kean's best players BY FAR are the players he was given in Nzonzi, Holliet Olssen, Samba and Robbo.

The comment "We lost but the fans can see we are playing well" this could become a comon feature under Kean, becuase we are build to look good, a real manager would build us to be tough and grind out results.

some fans don't understand this, experienced managers know its all about results.

See more Sam myths ... Niko was more than 6 million . Aye Sam spent nowt.

Sam just didn't have the resources to make Blackburn a flair team, if you have almost no money, infact I believe are 20th in the "spending verse investment" table...

then you have to get results. at all costs

Kean is trying to make an attacking beautiful football team signing players for 2 or 3 million, thats why he has been so unsuccessful.

Where as real experienced managers at Stoke, Newcastle or Everton are buying players that get results.

Kean's best players BY FAR are the players he was given in Nzonzi, Holliet Olssen, Samba and Robbo.

The comment "We lost but the fans can see we are playing well" this could become a comon feature under Kean, becuase we are build to look good, a real manager would build us to be tough and grind out results.

some fans don't understand this, experienced managers know its all about results.

See more Sam myths ... Niko was more than 6 million . Aye Sam spent nowt.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Absolute complete and utter rubbish. No-one with functioning eyes in their head could possibly make this claim with a straight face.

I was the happiest man on the planet when Venkys sacked Allardyce, and a great many other Rovers fans (I would still contend, the majority) celebrated with me. Where our new owners went wrong was to appoint Kean full-time, and talk him up as if he was the new Alex Ferguson. (With hindsight this was clearly a combination of staggering inexperience and being manipulated by the wrong people.)

There are still a huge, huge number of fans simply glad that the Allardyce era is over. That we have skilful players on the pitch at Ewood trying things - Formica, Rochina, Hoilett (who, lets not forget, didn't get a look-in under the previous regime) - as opposed to Diouf, Goulon and van Heerden.

Don't get me wrong - Kean is the wrong man, and did nothing to warrant his promotion other being an SEM client and brown-nosing the right people at the right time, but I completely understand why he retains some sympathy and support amongst Rovers fans.

Nothing's changed. Those that disliked Allardyce could never discuss anything with any balance.

Brilliant football under Kean? Football on the deck? Hugely skillfull players? Happiest man on the planet? (How sad and stupid is that?) :!:

There is nothing skillfull about conceding goals and getting beaten most weeks. Have you seen the league table? It seems to gently contradict your comment that the football is in anyway better at this time.

Why mention Goulon and Van Heerden? Anderson and Ribeiro must be the reason we play such amazing football under Kean? What a silly comment. And Diouf may have already forgotten more than Formica or Rochina will ever know, 250+ PL appearances and playing for Liverpool, Botlon, Sunderland and the Rovers gives you a clue about that. And Junior was given his debut and then re-signed under Allardyce.

I don't know one fan happy we are in the bottom three under the Venky's and Kean. I new a huge number of fans settled and happy under Allardyce and the Walker Trust.